Game turned when they put Zeke back in for Pollard

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by CowboyRoy, Nov 8, 2020.

  1. Aviano90

    Aviano90 Go Seahawks!!!

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    If you are using total number of yards after contact as a barometer then we should compare it to number of rushing attempts. The more rushing attempts you have the more chances you have to obtain yards after contact. We know Zeke isn’t explosive with big plays but the offset of that is he is pushing piles and falling forward gaining the extra, tough yards. I don’t see him excelling at that. Sure he’s close to top 5ish but shouldn’t he be hands down the best at yards after contact?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
  2. INCowboysFan

    INCowboysFan Well-Known Member

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    PFF uses yards after contact per rushing attempt.
     
  3. LACowboysFan1

    LACowboysFan1 Well-Known Member

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    Why? Because he's 225-plus pounds? Or because he's the highest paid running back? If the latter, that has nothing to do with his effectiveness, just being paid doesn't automatically transfer to performance. But if he's not best in that category, how does he compare in others? Like I said, he's a complete back, how does the top back in yac do in blocking effectiveness? Or first downs made? Can't just take one stat, show he's not the top there, and conclude he's not a good back. And durability counts for a lot, does no good to have a back that can be the top rusher if he's on the sideline due to injury. Saquan, anybody?

    But, if you want to pick one thing, here's another stat, from Football Outsiders:

    "Running backs are ranked according to DYAR, or Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement. This gives the value of the performance on plays where this RB carried/caught the ball compared to replacement level, adjusted for situation and opponent and then translated into yardage"

    For 2019, the last full year and a year in which Zeke had most of the line intact:
    E.Elliott DAL 324
    C.McCaffrey CAR 278
    M.Ingram BAL 257
    A.Jones GB 207
    K.Drake 2TM 202
    D.Henry TEN 192
    R.Mostert SF 191
    D.Cook MIN 183
    N.Chubb CLE 162
    C.Carson SEA 130

    So as you can see Zeke was not only number 1 in that stat, but far ahead of the next guy, McCaffery. Derrick Henry goes at 245 lbs, so is he the top yac guy? Even if he is, 20 or more pounds is a lot if a guy has a full head of steam...
     
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  4. LACowboysFan1

    LACowboysFan1 Well-Known Member

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    Right, but how many carries a back gets, again, isn't going to affect the yards per carry. A lower number of carries, with one or two long runs after contact, will skew the numbers. A larger number of carries gives both more opportunities to make yards after catch, but also more opportunities to get stopped for no gain, or for a loss. And a back that gets lots of carries will likely get keyed on much more than an occasional running back.

    Really I think it will average out over the course of several years, meaning that if Zeke is consistently in the top few running backs for yards after carry then he must be pretty good, any back can have one great year, staying near the top is much harder....
     
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  5. Aviano90

    Aviano90 Go Seahawks!!!

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    Now you are talking about something entirely different.
     
  6. RoyTheHammer

    RoyTheHammer Well-Known Member

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    Lol wut?? :laugh:
     
  7. RonnieT24

    RonnieT24 Well-Known Member

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    Sure I can.. but
    Yards after contact per attempt:

    2020 currently 1.8 but was at 2.5 when we had a QB. He was 7th or 8th entering week 6.. He has 11 broken tackles.. good for 9th
    2019 2.3 .. ranked 17th. but the line was in a shambles much of the year.. He was also credited with 24 broken tackles.. good for 9th.. oh and 8 more than Saquon Barkley.. in case anyone is interested.
    2018 2.0 ranked 28th.. which is somewhat surprising given that he had so many yards after contact. 19 broken tackles good for 11th

    So he continues to find his way in or near the top 10 in most rushing categories. Like I said, I don't expect any of his numbers to get any better the rest of this season unless the line starts blocking or we get competent QB play. At this point he's going to have 5 defenders following him when he gets off the bus until one of these QBs proves they can make the defense pay. I hope for our sake one of them rises to the occasion not just for Zeke but for us fans. I much prefer watching my team win than I do watching them lose.
     
  8. Aviano90

    Aviano90 Go Seahawks!!!

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    Right. They aren’t bad. When I looked at the numbers a few months ago I was surprised. I thought they would be much higher since this is what I expected him to excel in. I mean, that is his strength right or at least supposed to be? That and blocking?
     
  9. RonnieT24

    RonnieT24 Well-Known Member

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    No his strength is that he's a complete back.. who is normally among the league leaders in just about ALL relevant categories for running backs.. He's not the best after contact.. but he's among the best.. He's not the best receiver but he's among the best.. He's not the best TD scorer but he's among the best.. He's not the best blocker.. well on that one he may actually be.. That and durability. He takes a beating but keeps showing up for work. Also the raw after contact numbers alone don't tell the whole story because you are going to push tacklers for more yards after contact if you are meeting them 5 yards downfield with a head of steam vs being met at the line of scrimmage. Or in the backfield the way we have seen happen to our backs lately. Yes he had a stretch of games this year where he inexplicably morphed into a fumbler but (fingers crossed) I think he has got that fixed now.

    The other thing is that he admits to running into contact early in games looking to set a tone and beat on the defense some for later in the game. Unfortunately for him, that takes a toll on HIS body and if we fall behind he never gets to collect on the dividends his earlier punishment dished out were meant to bring.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
  10. QuincyCarterEra

    QuincyCarterEra Well-Known Member

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    Completely made up.
     
  11. Aviano90

    Aviano90 Go Seahawks!!!

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    Got it. Jack of all trades
     
  12. CowboyRoy

    CowboyRoy Well-Known Member

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    LOL........near the top 10? Here is a guy that many claimed was the #1 RB in all of football when it has been obvious for years he is not. Now we are arguing if he is even top 10? At least the argument is going in the right direction. Give half the good backs in football Zeke carries behind the Cowboys line the last few years and they put up Zeke numbers no question. Any plenty put up better numbers.

    Zeke isnt even the best back on his own football team.
     
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  13. RonnieT24

    RonnieT24 Well-Known Member

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    Bingo.. What made him worth the high pick was that he did just about everything you wanted a running back to do well. Nearly all the great backs in the league have a sizeable hole in his game. Cook and McCaffery are so small and they can't stay on the field and frankly neither is going to keep a 255 pound linebacker coming at full speed from crushing your QB. Henry has questionable hands.. Kamara has never shown any interest in blocking whatsoever. Chubb can't stay healthy despite being built like a tank. Gurley wasn't healthy in college so it's no surprise that he has not stayed healthy in the pros. If you go to pro-football-reference and click through the stats and sort by various categories it's remarkable how no matter which one you click on Zeke is almost always hovering around the top 10. The other names go in and out.. but Zeke stays there.. Which is all the more impressive when you consider how bad his line has been most of this season. Like I said before with the team's circumstances this year I full expect him to fall out of the top rung in nearly all those categories by the way.. But I live in the real world where running backs need blocking and at least a hint of a passing game to be successful. But I think with two weeks off and hopefully a little better passing attack and a slight uptick in the play of the line maybe he rises back up. We shall see..
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
  14. Aviano90

    Aviano90 Go Seahawks!!!

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    Being a top 10 RB in a passing league with few other bell cows is a quick drop off from the original claims he was a generational back when we drafted him.
     
  15. CowboyRoy

    CowboyRoy Well-Known Member

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    He is basically just above average at everything and GREAT at nothing. Save blocking and durability. However, in a RB by committee rotation, durability is down on the list. Give me game breakers in the run game and big time play makers and dynamic RB's in the passing game. Then keep them rotating in.
     
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  16. RonnieT24

    RonnieT24 Well-Known Member

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    You're entitled to your opinion. Zeke is still one of the most complete backs in the game.. And the Cowboys line has been closer to the bottom of the league than it has been the top for the last 2-3 years. If Pollard is better then write to the coaches and tell them.. Telling me does no good. People love Pollards occasional splash plays but ignore that he's more likely to lose yards than he is to break a big one. You can't build an offense around feast or famine.. You need to be able to hang your hat on something.
     
  17. Big_D

    Big_D Well-Known Member

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    As if there aren't plenty of reasons and examples around the league on why you don't overpay a RB now he's not even the best RB on his own team. lol Those explosive runs should be coming from him. The guys a clown. The team looks like complete crap and he still has to bust out his feed me garbage?
     
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  18. CowboyRoy

    CowboyRoy Well-Known Member

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    Complete........bla bla bla............At this point he is just running on reputation. You forget........all of us watch him every week play the game and run for Dallas. And he gets loads of carries. There is NOTHING scary about Zeke Elliott. I would never be worried.

    Let them give it to Zeke all day long. He will slow down their offense.

    Pollard is far from feast or famine. And to hear you defend Zeke and his 2.8 yards per carry average last week is hilarious. LOL

    Here, educate yourself:

    https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/202...tony-pollard-more-of-ezekiel-elliotts-touches
     
  19. CowboyRoy

    CowboyRoy Well-Known Member

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    AND THIS..................As if there aren't plenty of reasons and examples around the league on why you don't overpay a RB now he's not even the best RB on his own team. lol Those explosive runs should be coming from him. The guys a clown. The team looks like complete crap and he still has to bust out his feed me garbage?
     
  20. CowboyRoy

    CowboyRoy Well-Known Member

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    Wouldnt it be hilarious after a 25 yard scamper for Pollard to bust out the "feed me" thing?

    He should do it. At some point he has to be thinking that he is a better back then Zeke the Idiot.
     

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