Game turned when they put Zeke back in for Pollard

[LACowboysFan1]

The assumption by many here seems to be that in 2016 the Cowboys would have been just as successful if they had a lower draft pick main running back instead of Zeke, or a couple of lesser backs. However, there's no way to know that. Even after Emmitt got the reputation of being essentially unstoppable, as far as the whole game was concerned, and defenses keyed on Emmitt, he was still successful, even when the Great Wall started to lose some of it's key players.

The league changes constantly, I think we are seeing somewhat of a shift back to the running game, as with Henry on the Titans, and Chubb with the Browns. Maybe not, but if that is the case, a back like Zeke - big, durable, fairly fast - will be what you want. Since we'll likely have him here a couple more years, due to his contract, he's there if indeed the league shifts back to more of a running lead. In any event, it makes no sense to me to lower his carries, etc. and plug in more Pollard, or some other low round draftee/free agent if the end result isn't going to be hugely different. And I do love a good passing attack, I was watching the game last night and every time Jackson took off after only a cursory glance at the receivers, only to get 4-5-6 yards, I was thinking that was boring. So it's not that I just love the "three yards and a cloud of dust" game and the passing game be d-you-know-what.

But a solid running game, if it produces high yardage and touchdowns, is just as interesting to me. If you have the bell cow back let's see if he can do the job before you waste $16 million dollars every year..

 

[LACowboysFan1]

You're assuming that that will continue if Pollard gets a significant amount more carries per game. That's possible, but also could not be the case. But defensive coordinators aren't all stupid, if he gets more carries and passes, they will allocate more defense to Pollard, and he may not be as successful per carry.

I remember when I was in college in the late 1970's people were talking about Earl Campbell in an upcoming bowl game, that he would have a very good game, the comment "You can't stop big Earl" was heard a lot. Well in that game he got like 30 yards, was nearly totally shut down, and Texas lost.

If a defense wants to stop or severely limit a running back, nearly every time they can do that. Pittsburgh did that in SB XXX. after one good early run, Emmitt was largely ineffective as a runner. If the defenses start keying on Pollard when he comes into the game, we may very well be back to when Zeke was the focus of the defense, and as we know that hasn't worked very well. IF the line can improve Zeke to me just offers more overall ability, when you factor in inside rushes, blocking and the ability to wear down a defense.

Not saying maybe Pollard might be more effective if used a bit more and a bit differently, but that doesn't lessen Zeke's value.

 

[RonnieT24]

You're assuming that that will continue if Pollard gets a significant amount more carries per game. That's possible, but also could not be the case. But defensive coordinators aren't all stupid, if he gets more carries and passes, they will allocate more defense to Pollard, and he may not be as successful per carry.

I remember when I was in college in the late 1970's people were talking about Earl Campbell in an upcoming bowl game, that he would have a very good game, the comment "You can't stop big Earl" was heard a lot. Well in that game he got like 30 yards, was nearly totally shut down, and Texas lost.

If a defense wants to stop or severely limit a running back, nearly every time they can do that. Pittsburgh did that in SB XXX. after one good early run, Emmitt was largely ineffective as a runner. If the defenses start keying on Pollard when he comes into the game, we may very well be back to when Zeke was the focus of the defense, and as we know that hasn't worked very well. IF the line can improve Zeke to me just offers more overall ability, when you factor in inside rushes, blocking and the ability to wear down a defense.

Not saying maybe Pollard might be more effective if used a bit more and a bit differently, but that doesn't lessen Zeke's value.

What lessens Zeke's value is we have completely shifted the way we play offense over what we used to be. We have gone from a power running hat on a hat blocking team to a finesse running shotgun zone blocking team. I posted the numbers last week. We've gone from over under 15 % of Zeke's runs coming out of shotgun formation (I or one back) to over 40% now. Nearly half his runs are out of shotgun!!! That suits Pollard, not Zeke. Zeke spent three years learning to be patient and wait for the holes to develop. Pollard just goes 100 mph to wherever the play calls for him to go. When there's a hole it works great.. When there isn't you run into the mass of humanity and lose yards. That's why he's very much feast or famine as a runner now. He'll get you 30 on one carry then total 5 yards on the next 5 carries. I don't know if it's mental or physical but Zeke has not made that transition back to "don't wait for a hole there might not be one" and just hit it with everything you got.

On a completely unrelated note, your anecdote about Big Earl reminded me of an argument I had with my roommate freshman year of college. We had just watched Big Earl dismantle the Dolphins defense on Monday Night Football and he marveled and how fast Earl was for his size after the late game 80 yarder he had down the sideline. I told him those guys COULD have caught him but they just didn't want to! I also slipped in that I was probably faster than Earl Campbell. He would have none of it. Of course by the time indoor track season was over he started to believe me because I was churning out some pretty blazing 60 meter dashes but before that every time we would talk about that game or about Earl Campbell he would just look at me and shake his head! LOL! He was just one of those people who believe that every professional athlete was better at every arena of physical prowess than us mere mortals. Which was weird because he was a hockey player.. a defenseman and he was a lot bigger and stronger than some NHL guys..

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

The assumption by many here seems to be that in 2016 the Cowboys would have been just as successful if they had a lower draft pick main running back instead of Zeke, or a couple of lesser backs. However, there's no way to know that. Even after Emmitt got the reputation of being essentially unstoppable, as far as the whole game was concerned, and defenses keyed on Emmitt, he was still successful, even when the Great Wall started to lose some of it's key players.

The league changes constantly, I think we are seeing somewhat of a shift back to the running game, as with Henry on the Titans, and Chubb with the Browns. Maybe not, but if that is the case, a back like Zeke - big, durable, fairly fast - will be what you want. Since we'll likely have him here a couple more years, due to his contract, he's there if indeed the league shifts back to more of a running lead. In any event, it makes no sense to me to lower his carries, etc. and plug in more Pollard, or some other low round draftee/free agent if the end result isn't going to be hugely different. And I do love a good passing attack, I was watching the game last night and every time Jackson took off after only a cursory glance at the receivers, only to get 4-5-6 yards, I was thinking that was boring. So it's not that I just love the "three yards and a cloud of dust" game and the passing game be d-you-know-what.

But a solid running game, if it produces high yardage and touchdowns, is just as interesting to me. If you have the bell cow back let's see if he can do the job before you waste $16 million dollars every year..

The actual evidence doesn’t support your narrative.

The evidence was already there that the o-line had more of an impact on the running game than whom the runner was individually.

In 2014, Darren McFadden was on the last leg of his career, running for 534 yards and a paltry 3.4 YPC in Oakland.

In 2015, he gets put behind a quality offensive line in Dallas and sees a resurgence, running for 1,000+ yards at a robust 4.6 YPC clip.

Keep in mind, D-Mac was handicapped with playing with the carousel of Matt Cassel, Kellen Moore, and Brandon Weeden under center that couldn’t keep defenses honest in the passing game.

 

[G2]

The actual evidence doesn’t support your narrative.

The evidence was already there that the o-line had more of an impact on the running game than whom the runner was individually.

In 2014, Darren McFadden was on the last leg of his career, running for 534 yards and a paltry 3.4 YPC in Oakland.

In 2015, he gets put behind a quality offensive line in Dallas and sees a resurgence, running for 1,000+ yards at a robust 4.6 YPC clip.

Keep in mind, D-Mac was handicapped with playing with the carousel of Matt Cassel, Kellen Moore, and Brandon Weeden under center that couldn’t keep defenses honest in the passing game.

A portion of the difference can also be put on about 85 less carries in 2014, not that it would have eclipsed 2015.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

A portion of the difference can also be put on about 85 less carries in 2014, not that it would have eclipsed 2015.

I should also add that D-Mac’s 3.4 YPC season in 2014 was proceeded by 3.3 YPC in 2013, and 3.3 YPC in 2012.

 

[CowboyRoy]

You base everything on one game? No wonder you can't get anything right!!!!

Seriously, look at the seasons stats. Here you go:

Player: Carries
Clyde 126
Mahomes 35
Williams 20

That is the epitome of a bell cow back. Now, do you have the nerve to admit you were wrong?

Bell cow backs are fine until you have to pay them big time money. Then you move on.

Clyde is also NOT your typical bell Cow. He is a smallish, more versatile, bigger play type back that they like in that offense. He got an overly high number of carries early in the year because their #2 RB opted out because of Covid. Their pursuit of Leveon Bell indicates more of where they like to be with the rotation.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

The actual evidence doesn’t support your narrative.

The evidence was already there that the o-line had more of an impact on the running game than whom the runner was individually.

In 2014, Darren McFadden was on the last leg of his career, running for 534 yards and a paltry 3.4 YPC in Oakland.

In 2015, he gets put behind a quality offensive line in Dallas and sees a resurgence, running for 1,000+ yards at a robust 4.6 YPC clip.

Keep in mind, D-Mac was handicapped with playing with the carousel of Matt Cassel, Kellen Moore, and Brandon Weeden under center that couldn’t keep defenses honest in the passing game.

Just because another player improved behind the line doesn't mean any other runner could have duplicated Zeke's success, that's not something that we can know for sure, unless we could go back in time and replay the season with somebody else at running back. Besides, the Raiders in 2014 were a terrible team, started 0-10 and had their head coach fired four games into the season. The fact that McFadden didn't do well could most likely be due to being on a team that was going nowhere, rather than he just wasn't any good...

 

[RonnieT24]

Just because another player improved behind the line doesn't mean any other runner could have duplicated Zeke's success, that's not something that we can know for sure, unless we could go back in time and replay the season with somebody else at running back. Besides, the Raiders in 2014 were a terrible team, started 0-10 and had their head coach fired four games into the season. The fact that McFadden didn't do well could most likely be due to being on a team that was going nowhere, rather than he just wasn't any good...

I am not even going to argue whether other backs could have duplicated what Zeke did behind our line. I'm sure there are 10-12 backs who could have.. and guess what would have happened after they did.. they would have wanted the same contract Zeke got.. and guess what would have happened to them after Dak got hurt and 3-4 of the starters on the o-line went away.. Yeah.. their production would have dropped. This aint rocket surgery. It's football.. Crappy blocking + no passing game = less yards for the runner. And it doesn't matter who the runner it is.. the equation doesn't change.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Just because another player improved behind the line doesn't mean any other runner could have duplicated Zeke's success, that's not something that we can know for sure, unless we could go back in time and replay the season with somebody else at running back. Besides, the Raiders in 2014 were a terrible team, started 0-10 and had their head coach fired four games into the season. The fact that McFadden didn't do well could most likely be due to being on a team that was going nowhere, rather than he just wasn't any good...

That’s complete nonsense.

We actually do know what another RB would look like behind this o-line when it was still in its prime.

You’re simply attempting to do is dismiss the point about McFadden because it’s EXACTLY the kind of evidence you think we don’t have.

There’s no way around.

You had a middling NFL running back that averaged 3.3 YPC his three previous seasons 2012-2014 before coming to Dallas.

He arrives in Dallas in 2015, playing with inept QBs (Cassel, K. Moore, and Weeden) under center, and yet he still managed 4.6 YPC and 1,000+ yards, so it can’t be argued “oh, he benefitted from a good QB taking the pressure off the run game.”

 

[LACowboysFan1]

That’s complete nonsense.

We actually do know what another RB would look like behind this o-line when it was still in its prime.

You’re simply attempting to do is dismiss the point about McFadden because it’s EXACTLY the kind of evidence you think we don’t have.

There’s no way around.

You had a middling NFL running back that averaged 3.3 YPC his three previous seasons 2012-2014 before coming to Dallas.

He arrives in Dallas in 2015, playing with inept QBs (Cassel, K. Moore, and Weeden) under center, and yet he still managed 4.6 YPC and 1,000+ yards, so it can’t be argued “oh, he benefitted from a good QB taking the pressure off the run game.”

And you're totally ignoring the fact that he played on a crappy team in 2014 with Oakland. And you're ignoring 2010 and 2011, when he averaged 5.2 and 5.4 ypc in Oakland. If he only did well in Dallas due to the line, how'd he do that in Oakland two years running? His not doing well there in 215 could (again, we don't know unless we could replay the season) be due to that. In other words, he could have had the same stats there as he did with Dallas in 2015 if he'd had a better line, therefore he was a better runner than you give him credit for.

There's no well to tell for sure, though we can suppose..

 

[MyFairLady]

Zeke in 2016 was awesome. Dynamic, explosive, fun to watch. Zeke in 2020 blows.