Garrett and Phillips

[WV Cowboy]

Is this a thread or did you fart?

Wow, isn't that funny, ... what, .. are you like 12?

Let's see, .. posts are into the 40's, .. and it's heading to page3, .. so I'm guessing it's a thread.
Sorry to confuse you. Most people managed to figure it out on their own.

 

[Little Jr]

No, I'm saying Wade followed the great Bill Parcells. Who turned the team around and put together a core of players entering their prime when Wade took over.

Jason Garrett took over a Wade Phillips declining team with Jerry back in full force for 4 years.

This is why Wade has a better overall record.

Gotcha

 

[ConstantReboot]

If Garrett would have followed Parcells he'd have a better record too.

This is complete nonsense.

on a funny side note

Wade can attribute a large portion of his success to parcells who built the team he coached and built the mentality it had or was just starting to have anyway.

and garrett can attribute his record here in a large part to the deconstructing of a team that wade had a huge hand in.

Either way they both are lousy head coaches and neither should never have been hired.

Garrett also inherited a Parcells built team. He was also here when Wade and Parcells was head coach. Thus its not like he inherited a bunch of scrubs. Nonetheless, we had a chance to get to playoffs during 3 straight years during Garrett's tenure. Thats all on Garrett and he failed on that part.

 

[Coy]

Let's see...

Wade followed what Bill Parcells built...

Garrett followed what Wade... er... built.

So Harbaugh followed what Singletary built? So I guess he's just a lucky coach.
After 4 years at the helm Good HC's win, bad ones don't, plain and simple, and by no means am I saying Wade was good but he was better than Garrett that's for sure.

 

[Idgit]

They're about on equal footing:

Wade can game manage decently, but couldn't build.

Garrett can't manage, but can decently build.

Maybe we'll get a guy who can do both eventually.

I'd agree with this assessment. Except give me the builder over the game manager since 1. game management is something a relatively young HC is likely to get better at and 2. coordinators can help with game management.

Wade was a very good coordinator, not a great head coach. But in ways his personality was a pretty good fit for this team after Parcels left on such short notice. He was able to steer what Parcels built for a while, and I actuality think the team might have been ready for an easier-going personality at that point. Problem was, as you mention, he could not build and he didn't have a GM who could effectively close that loop for him.

Garrett, on the other hand, is a good organizer who came into a disintegrating situation and put things back together despite a declining roster at some position groups (CB and OL in particular) and a tight salary cap. If he's finally got the coordinators who can help with the game management (and for the first time since 2012, I think he might), we might be ok. I guess we'll see.

Either way, I wasn't a fan of Wade as HC at all (though I do think I'd like him as a person), but I don't think the problems in Dallas under either coach were specifically with the HC. Wade had problems assembling talent and as his roster got worse, so did his teams. Garrett's made some mistakes of his own, but shown the ability to throw multiple solutions at problem areas. He's struggled instead with game management and with replacing players who weren't good enough or who were past their primes with no extra picks and not much in the way of cap room.

 

[Idgit]

Garrett also inherited a Parcells built team. He was also here when Wade and Parcells was head coach. Thus its not like he inherited a bunch of scrubs. Nonetheless, we had a chance to get to playoffs during 3 straight years during Garrett's tenure. Thats all on Garrett and he failed on that part.

Man. His time as OC under Wade does not mean a thing, or at least it doesn't mean much, when evaluating those rosters. I know you guys want to say it did, because it makes Garrett's tenure seem longer, but he wasn't the head coach, period. Those years are on Wade and Jerry. Similarly, I don't hold Rob Ryan or Kiffin or Callahan responsible for the drafts under Garrett.

I"m not sure why it is people expect a brand new coach to take a 1-7 team, give it a $10M cap penalty over two seasons, no extra picks other than the compensatory picks we got for losing existing talent, and to somehow outpace the rest of the league during that same time while working under what most perceive to be a weaker-than-average GM. Throw in the defensive injuries the last two years, and you start to wonder why people are so dissatisfied with the 8-8 finishes with the chance to win the division in week 17 each year. By how much would JG have had to outperform the field in order for us to be satisfied with the coaching and start seriously looking at the weakened state of our passing defense during this entire period? Crazy.

 

[Coy]

32-26 with 1 playoff appearence. Still better than jg. I'm sure there will be buts behind this too from the jg homers.

Make that 2 playoff appearences (winning the East both times) and 1 playoff win.

 

[Idgit]

32-26 with 1 playoff appearence. Still better than jg. I'm sure there will be buts behind this too from the jg homers.

Thing is, I'd wager more of the JG 'homers' were also among the posters most supportive of Wade when he was HC here. And that the posters who most complain about JG now were complaining loudly about Wade back in 2010. What do you think?

 

[TheDude]

No, I'm saying Wade followed the great Bill Parcells. Who turned the team around and put together a core of players entering their prime when Wade took over.

Jason Garrett took over a Wade Phillips declining team with Jerry back in full force for 4 years.

This is why Wade has a better overall record.

I don't think people realize how steaming the pile of a roster before Parcells took over. He took a team with Quincy Carter QB and Hambrick RB to the play-offs. That feat alone deserves HOF induction

 

[Coy]

Thing is, I'd wager more of the JG 'homers' were also among the posters most supportive of Wade when he was HC here. And that the posters who most complain about JG now were complaining loudly about Wade back in 2010. What do you think?

That could be true, but saying Wade did a better job than JG doesn't mean that people think Wade was a heck of a HC.

 

[Idgit]

That could be true, but saying Wade did a better job than JG doesn't mean that people think Wade was a heck of a HC.

That's also true. It's just weird seeing the old positions switch to match a new argument.

 

[Little Jr]

Thing is, I'd wager more of the JG 'homers' were also among the posters most supportive of Wade when he was HC here. And that the posters who most complain about JG now were complaining loudly about Wade back in 2010. What do you think?

I think you're wrong

 

[Little Jr]

Make that 2 playoff appearences (winning the East both times) and 1 playoff win.

Actually it was one throwugh the 1st 56 games. The 56th was the 4th game of the 99 season. So I didn't count that year.

 

[Tabascocat]

They are both buffoons in their own different ways. At least Wade knew/knows defense and I am not sure(pretty much sure) Garrett knows offense that well. As each season progresses with Jason, more expertise is brought in to help him on HIS side of the ball.

Yes, Wade inherited a lot of Parcell's team but Garrett wasn't exactly handed the Browns either. At this point, Wade is head and shoulders a better coach than Jason as a head coach and a coordinator. Jason could potentially rise to the top but I don't foresee that.

I supported Wade when he was here and liked him and I never was on the Garrett bandwagon........he got the job well before he was ready.

It is a sad state of affairs when I wish that Wade was still here over Garrett

 

[Little Jr]

I don't think people realize how steaming the pile of a roster before Parcells took over. He took a team with Quincy Carter QB and Hambrick RB to the play-offs. That feat alone deserves HOF induction

I realize it. It was horrible. It was a lot better in 2006 when he left than it was in 2003 when he arrived in dallas. It wouldbe hard not to be better. But I think people give him to much credit for what wade did. As someone pointed out in a earlier comment the team wasn't great. Good but not great. They had theri wholes. I realize jg took over a team that 1-7 but it was a year removed from 11-5 and our only playoff win in 18 years.

 

[Idgit]

I think you're wrong

I could be. Going mostly off if personal experience and my recollections if which posters complained the most back then. These things tend to remain fairly constant. With "realists" complaining about everything and homers defending everything.

 

[Hoofbite]

Thing is, I'd wager more of the JG 'homers' were also among the posters most supportive of Wade when he was HC here. And that the posters who most complain about JG now were complaining loudly about Wade back in 2010. What do you think?

What do you think this implies, or what are you trying to point out with this?

You've said this before and I honestly don't know where you are trying to go with it.

 

[Hoofbite]

They are both buffoons in their own different ways. At least Wade knew/knows defense and I am not sure(pretty much sure) Garrett knows offense that well. As each season progresses with Jason, more expertise is brought in to help him on HIS side of the ball.

Yes, Wade inherited a lot of Parcell's team but Garrett wasn't exactly handed the Browns either. At this point, Wade is head and shoulders a better coach than Jason as a head coach and a coordinator. Jason could potentially rise to the top but I don't foresee that.

I supported Wade when he was here and liked him and I never was on the Garrett bandwagon........he got the job well before he was ready.

It is a sad state of affairs when I wish that Wade was still here over Garrett

Just you wait. Defensive "indoctrination" (Jerry's real choice in wording) is set to begin this year.

It undoubtedly took Wade decades of tutelage under his father while growing up to be capable enough of even trying to run a defense.

Jason took to offensive coordinating like a duck to water. Having mastered the offensive side of the ball in just 7 short seasons, half of which he's been primarily focused on roster building and processing.......Jason will now undertake the task of becoming a defensive savant to match his innate offensive prowess.

I bet Jason conquers the art of being a defensive guru in 3 years.

Ten years and he'll have mastered both sides if the ball.

31 years after his first DC job Wade still hasn't gotten to the point where he can shift his focus to something he hasn't ever done before. Who knows if he will ever get there. Taken him his whole life thus far so it may take another lifetime to master both.

What would take Wade 2 lifetimes is likely gonna take Garret 10 years.

Jason is so far ahead of the curve.

 

[CATCH17]

Wade, so far, did a better job than Garrett has done.

Garrett being hand picked by Jerry for Wade probably hurt Wades results some as well.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Man. His time as OC under Wade does not mean a thing, or at least it doesn't mean much, when evaluating those rosters. I know you guys want to say it did, because it makes Garrett's tenure seem longer, but he wasn't the head coach, period. Those years are on Wade and Jerry. Similarly, I don't hold Rob Ryan or Kiffin or Callahan responsible for the drafts under Garrett.

I"m not sure why it is people expect a brand new coach to take a 1-7 team, give it a $10M cap penalty over two seasons, no extra picks other than the compensatory picks we got for losing existing talent, and to somehow outpace the rest of the league during that same time while working under what most perceive to be a weaker-than-average GM. Throw in the defensive injuries the last two years, and you start to wonder why people are so dissatisfied with the 8-8 finishes with the chance to win the division in week 17 each year. By how much would JG have had to outperform the field in order for us to be satisfied with the coaching and start seriously looking at the weakened state of our passing defense during this entire period? Crazy.

Well if I was Wade I would be pissed at Jones for saying that Garrett is the future of the Cowboys in terms of coaching, Garrett is a genius, Garrett is a great coach, etc, out in the media even though he has never coached before in his entire life. Isn't that undermining the coach? Frankly, I think Wade was set up to fail more so than Garrett. Wade was given Garrett to run the offense and just as bad as a coaching staff that Garrett has inherited. Yet he was asked to make mountains out of molehills. Remember, Jerry was the GM back then as he is still the GM now. Doesn't that account for anything as well?

Wade wasn't a great coach. But during his time here he brought us into the playoffs and won a game. Sure he inherited a good team from Parcells. But so has Garrett. Other factors played into Wade's demise as well such as Romo being injured.

Garrett was also running the offense at that time. He puts in a rookie FB who doesn't know the play and allows a passrusher to go untouched nailing Romo. Why hasn't that been brought up? Not blaming Garrett for that play. But he was running the offense and even the announcers questioned why you would put in a FB to block when he doesn't know the play?

Thus Garrett was also part of the debacle that happened during that year. So blaming Wade entirely on him is not fair. Especially when people here are giving Garrett a pass with our 8-8 season.