Giants face stronger Cowboys without Ellis/Bledsoe (weak links)

[TwoCentPlain]

Last time the Giants faced the Cowboys Ellis and Bledsoe were the starters. Without these two players the Cowboys have done a Jeckyl-and Hyde transformation. Few will argue that Bledsoe was the weak link on offense. I'm beginning to come to grips with my suspicion that Ellis was a/(the?) weak link on defense, especially a 3-4 defense. He did alright. Don't get me wrong. But his injury forced the Cowboys to go to a true 3-4, not the 5-2 they had with Ellis. And it also forced the Cowboys to move Ware around which makes the offenses guess and audible. With Ellis in there, teams knew exactly where Ellis and Ware would be and everyone else. Ellis is one of my favorite Cowboys but the facts seem to be that the Cowboys are a better defense without him. I doubt he will be a Cowboy next year. As Parcells said about Ellis(before he switched to LB),"Every team in the league has a Greg Ellis at DE in the 4-3." Nothing special at this point in his career. And the injury now probably cements his departure.

The best base LB combo for the Cowboys imo is Burnett, Ayodele, James, and Ware, with Ware and Burnett able to switch sides at any time.

 

[theogt]

:shootme:

 

[Kevlee06]

So with Ellis in there they had 5 linebackers and two D-lineman? Or 5 D-Lineman and two linebackers? Or did you mean they were playing the "4-3" defense?

 

[Rampage]

So with Ellis in there they had 5 linebackers and two D-lineman? Or 5 D-Lineman and two linebackers? Or did you mean they were playing the "4-3" defense?

i think what he meant by the "5-2" is that everyone new just about every play ware and ellis were rushing along with the down linemen(5) and we always dropped akin and bradie back in coverage(2)

 

[Juke99]

Last time the Giants faced the Cowboys Ellis and Bledsoe were the starters. Without these two players the Cowboys have done a Jeckyl-and Hyde transformation. Few will argue that Bledsoe was the weak link on offense. I'm beginning to come to grips with my suspicion that Ellis was a/(the?) weak link on defense, especially a 3-4 defense. He did alright. Don't get me wrong. But his injury forced the Cowboys to go to a true 3-4, not the 5-2 they had with Ellis. And it also forced the Cowboys to move Ware around which makes the offenses guess and audible. With Ellis in there, teams knew exactly where Ellis and Ware would be and everyone else. Ellis is one of my favorite Cowboys but the facts seem to be that the Cowboys are a better defense without him. I doubt he will be a Cowboy next year. As Parcells said about Ellis(before he switched to LB),"Every team in the league has a Greg Ellis at DE in the 4-3." Nothing special at this point in his career. And the injury now probably cements his departure.

The best base LB combo for the Cowboys imo is Burnett, Ayodele, James, and Ware, with Ware and Burnett able to switch sides at any time.

On the nosey.

 

[ghst187]

Being newly able to let Ware swap sides on occasion is really huge IMO. That gives us more disguise as to where the blitzer is coming.
Ellis could only play on the right side which force Ware to play exclusively on the left. I think without Ellis (God bless him) we have a little more flexibility on defense and a little more disguise. It has also allowed Burnett to step up his game and he may end up being a bigger playmaker than Ellis was.

 

[theogt]

Being newly able to let Ware swap sides on occasion is really huge IMO. That gives us more disguise as to where the blitzer is coming.
Ellis could only play on the right side which force Ware to play exclusively on the left. I think without Ellis (God bless him) we have a little more flexibility on defense and a little more disguise. It has also allowed Burnett to step up his game and he may end up being a bigger playmaker than Ellis was.

Greg's main position was on the left side. However, we played him on the right side quite a bit this year. Ware was switching sides when Greg was in. He may do it more now, because Burnett is "suited" more for the ROLB position.

So now the lineup is either Singleton(LOLB)/Ware(ROLB) or Ware(LOLB)/Burnett(ROLB). Before there was no need to substitute because Ellis could play both sides.

 

[sago1]

Can somebody clarify for me what Hatcher's role in our defense has been since Ellis injury? Frankly I thought he occasionally was used in pass plays to replace Ellis and alternated with Ware. Singleton/Carpenter were in on obvious rushing plays.

Also thought I saw some reporting Cowboys pleased with Hatcher development, but unless they meant as potential DE starting next year, I was thinking they meant as an OLB.

Sorry if I sound a bit confused but don't get to watch all the games like those living in Dallas area do.

 

[ZeroClub]

The LB situation has been a lot more dynamic since Ellis left.

But the Cowboys will miss Ellis's size when Brandon Jacobs carries.

 

[theogt]

Can somebody clarify for me what Hatcher's role in our defense has been since Ellis injury? Frankly I thought he occasionally was used in pass plays to replace Ellis and alternated with Ware. Singleton/Carpenter were in on obvious rushing plays.

Also thought I saw some reporting Cowboys pleased with Hatcher development, but unless they meant as potential DE starting next year, I was thinking they meant as an OLB.

Sorry if I sound a bit confused but don't get to watch all the games like those living in Dallas area do.

He's backing up Canty at RDE in the 3-4 and playing the RDE in the nickel. Ware is now playing the LDE in the nickel.

 

[Big Country]

Being newly able to let Ware swap sides on occasion is really huge IMO. That gives us more disguise as to where the blitzer is coming.
Ellis could only play on the right side which force Ware to play exclusively on the left. I think without Ellis (God bless him) we have a little more flexibility on defense and a little more disguise. It has also allowed Burnett to step up his game and he may end up being a bigger playmaker than Ellis was.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

 

[Yeagermeister]

I agree with Bledsoe but not with Ellis. What he lacked in coverage we gained in QB pressure.

 

[theebs]

I think you guys are undervaluing ellis. Just because we have had two good games without him does not mean we dont need him, not even close.

Ellis has had terrific games against manning, I believe he forced a fumble in both games last year and this year off him, although this year they reviewed it and called it incomplete.

He has had good games against mckenzie, I dont think we are better off without him, and I think he will be missed at some point a great deal.

Having said that I like ware being moved around and burnett on the field. We really have some great depth and some hungry guys.

Just look at the way singleton played the run against the colts, they tried and tried to run his way and it didnt work. I fully expect the giants to try and run outside on al with barber and then cut back towards spears tomorrow, it worked last time.

 

[Future]

I'm beginning to come to grips with my suspicion that Ellis was a/(the?) weak link on defense, especially a 3-4 defense. He did alright. Don't get me wrong. But his injury forced the Cowboys to go to a true 3-4, not the 5-2 they had with Ellis. And it also forced the Cowboys to move Ware around which makes the offenses guess and audible. With Ellis in there, teams knew exactly where Ellis and Ware would be and everyone else.

these have been my thoughts exactly

 

[lspain1]

The real point here is that Ellis vs Manning was not the key matchup last game....it was Ellis vs. Barber...and Ellis did not win. Ellis didn't do well against the run inside/planned bounce outside and he didn't do well on the swing passes in space.

That being said, I have no idea if our replacements are going to do any better.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The LB situation has been a lot more dynamic since Ellis left.

But the Cowboys will miss Ellis's size when Brandon Jacobs carries.

But Ellis was getting caught inside too many times and I was petrified whenever he actually had to cover someone.

I like Ellis as a pass rusher but quite frankly I think this is a better defense with him on the sidelines.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

In re-watching the last couple of games, I don't think we've given Jason Hatcher enough love. He's doing great on the pass rush in limited opportunities. And he did not play in the first Giants game due to the bad ankle, so the Giants O-linemen haven't seen him yet. I think they'll be surprised at his quickness and power.

I predict that he's going to show up big tomorrow. If we put Ware on the left in the nickel and they double him with a back or TE, I think Hatcher is going to punk Whitfield or one of their guards at least a couple of times tomorrow, and provide a lot of pocket push on Manning.

 

[MONT17]

Ellis was the starting DE on Nickle... the most important package in the NFL!!! and you say the Boys are better because he is not in on the Base D!!!


thats funny!!!

 

[theebs]

In re-watching the last couple of games, I don't think we've given Jason Hatcher enough love. He's doing great on the pass rush in limited opportunities. And he did not play in the first Giants game due to the bad ankle, so the Giants O-linemen haven't seen him yet. I think they'll be surprised at his quickness and power.

I predict that he's going to show up big tomorrow. If we put Ware on the left in the nickel and they double him with a back or TE, I think Hatcher is going to punk Whitfield or one of their guards at least a couple of times tomorrow, and provide a lot of pocket push on Manning.

Right on.

Hatcher and ratliff continue to go under rated. Losing ratliff was a big deal last year.

I will go as far as to say ratliff brings just as much pass rush as glover did. You guys can roast me for that but he is one determined dude.

I learned all I needed to know about hatcher in the vikings overtime preseason game, he was rushing just as hard on the last play as he was in the first quarter during the first snap he played.

hatcher and ratliff are good players who get no national media attention but it is that type of player that parcells has always got the most out of and when you consider where we got them and what we pay them you have to tip your hat to parcells, ireland and the scouts.

 

[CACowboyfan]

Anyone who thinks our defense is better off without Ellis is foolish. Other than Ware, Ellis is the only one who put consistent pressure on. Remember, don't "eat the cheese" as parcells would say. We've beaten the Bucs and the Colts-granted the D played inspired against the Colts. I think as we go along, you'll see that the only person who will pressure the QB now that Ellis gone is Ware. Time will tell.