Giants face stronger Cowboys without Ellis/Bledsoe (weak links)

[theebs]

Anyone who thinks our defense is better off without Ellis is foolish. Other than Ware, Ellis is the only one who put consistent pressure on. Remember, don't "eat the cheese" as parcells would say. We've beaten the Bucs and the Colts-granted the D played inspired against the Colts. I think as we go along, you'll see that the only person who will pressure the QB now that Ellis gone is Ware. Time will tell.

C the post above yours, ware isnt alone.

 

[Rack]

Greg's main position was on the left side. However, we played him on the right side quite a bit this year. Ware was switching sides when Greg was in. He may do it more now, because Burnett is "suited" more for the WOLB position.

So now the lineup is either Singleton(SOLB)/Ware(WOLB) or Ware(SOLB)/Burnett(WOLB). Before there was no need to substitute because Ellis could play both sides.

Fixed.

 

[Rack]

Right on.

Hatcher and ratliff continue to go under rated. Losing ratliff was a big deal last year.

I will go as far as to say ratliff brings just as much pass rush as glover did. You guys can roast me for that but he is one determined dude.

I learned all I needed to know about hatcher in the vikings overtime preseason game, he was rushing just as hard on the last play as he was in the first quarter during the first snap he played.

hatcher and ratliff are good players who get no national media attention but it is that type of player that parcells has always got the most out of and when you consider where we got them and what we pay them you have to tip your hat to parcells, ireland and the scouts.

I don't know about "as much" but it was close either way.


Now, the Glover of 6-7 years ago... if Ratliff gets that good, we'll be in great shape.

 

[lspain1]

Anyone who thinks our defense is better off without Ellis is foolish. Other than Ware, Ellis is the only one who put consistent pressure on. Remember, don't "eat the cheese" as parcells would say. We've beaten the Bucs and the Colts-granted the D played inspired against the Colts. I think as we go along, you'll see that the only person who will pressure the QB now that Ellis gone is Ware. Time will tell.

I don't know if our defense is better without Ellis or not. Ellis did NOT have a good game against NY earlier this year.

 

[diehard2294]

dont get me wrong,I liked ellis because he provided pressure and was good against the run,I belive however we got more athletic at the position. Ellis is no gazelle Not even a question about Romo being a upgrade with this offense.

and Burnett IMO will be gone when his contract is up,and he will go elsewhere and shine.

 

[conner01]

to say ellis is a weak link is silly. the guy is the 2nd best pass rusher we have.just like in camp lots wanted to get rid of ellis but he was having a great year. how soon we forget

 

[Clove]

When Hatcher/Ware/Ratliff and Burnett is getting after the QB, it's big business. To me, I loved Ellis, but Ellis did NOT bring consistant pressure. He did bring pressure, but not CONSISTANT pressure.

What Burnett brings is speed. When he gets after the QB, they have to decide whether to block in or out against him, if they block in and he flies around that corner, it's a sack turnover.

On the other side, I've not seen that many RB catches, short out of the backfield stuff since Burnett's been in there. I love Ellis again, but when he's healthy, it's time to try and get a draft pick for the last time.

 

[conner01]

no consistant pressure? do you watch the games? i like burnett but you make it sound like he is getting sacks each week. he has 1 sack

 

[Jake0]

Ellis' injury timing just coincides with Romo coming on and having to become a little tricky to beat the colts.

 

[Future]

Ellis' injury timing just coincides with Romo coming on and having to become a little tricky to beat the colts.

With Ellis in, we did not have the ability to be "a little tricky" imo

 

[sonnyboy]

Hate losing players peroid, especially Ellis because he was a good guy and worked hard at the position change. He deserved to be on this run I think we make.
With that said I really think this is addition by subtraction. Ellis was a good "pressure player" for us and that will be missed. The problem was that he just wasn't mobile enough for LOLB in our 3-4. He was a liability in coverage and at times a liability defending the run in space.
I can't say for certain, but I think since he was so much more useful as a pass rusher for us out of the 3-4, he probably took too many of Ware's blitzing opportunities away. Think about it, it's 1st or 2nd down and your in your 3-4 base defense. You want to send one of your OLB on a blitz. Invariably your gonna send Ellis and leave the far more athletic Ware in coverage.

 

[DCfaninDC]

I agree with Bledsoe but not with Ellis. What he lacked in coverage we gained in QB pressure.

I would have agreed with you right up untill we played Indy, I am not saying Ellis was bad, but I think we are as good if not better with out him IMO, but that is just me and I could be wrong. Ellis did put alot of pressure on QBs but he wasn't quick enough, I can't forget the TD Clinton "injury is my excuse" Portis ran by him and he couldn't catch up to him.

 

[2much2soon]

I would have agreed with you right up untill we played Indy, I am not saying Ellis was bad, but I think we are as good if not better with out him IMO, but that is just me and I could be wrong. Ellis did put alot of pressure on QBs but he wasn't quick enough, I can't forget the TD Clinton "injury is my excuse" Portis ran by him and he couldn't catch up to him.

You can't fault Ellis for not being able to catch up to Portis. Not many can. You can fault him for getting fooled and sucked inside on that play, though.
Overall, I think the benefits of getting more guys involved outweigh the loss of Ellis.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't know if our defense is better without Ellis or not. Ellis did NOT have a good game against NY earlier this year.

or in the 2nd Skin game

Ellis is a good pass-rusher, but can turn into a liability on stretch-running plays, and of course in coverage, although teams never really targeted him that much, it's not that hard to replace 1-trick ponies, esp. 3-4 OLBs who are required to do more than just rush the QB, you can say that about all LB positions, but still, in BP's scheme, you're talking about only rushing the passer 30% of the time from that spot

 

[STSINAZ]

we won more after removing both statue's...bledsoe and ellis

 

[ratpower]

we won more after removing both statue's...bledsoe and ellis

Ellis was taking too many snaps but the Ellis bashing is ridiculous. He was having a great season and still was doing a great job against the run and on pass rush. If you don't think so, go back and watch the tapes, it speaks for itself.

The only thing that helps is that there are fresh bodies in the game with the Burnett/Carpenter/Singleton/Hatcher arrangement. These guys are doing well but let's quit the ridiculous Ellis bashing threads...if he was as statue, I want more statues on the team.

I do think Hatcher has great upside.

 

[chinch]

my only real complaints about tuna corrected themselves when he benched drew and greg injured himself. THANK YOU.

ellis was disgraceful in the 3-4, i don't care what anyone or tuna says publically. it's not like we didn't have LBs to play the position either. one thing about bill you can take to the bank is when he compliments guys repeatedly (like he did ellis) it's a sign he's trying to convince them of something and bolster their confidence.

 

[theogt]

Wow, some of these responses amaze me.

Just stop and ask yourself two questions:

1. Did Ellis get pressure? (Obvious answer: Yes)

2. Have Carpenter or Singleton applied pressure? (Obvious answer: No)

Basically, the added pressure lately has come from the linemen (and Ware) stepping up their play. Hatcher being healthy hasn't hurt, either. He looks like the pick of the draft at this point. I can't think of a single occasion in which Greg was beat in coverage or beat in space. How was he against the run? That's debatable, but he couldn't possibly have been so bad as to warrant going from consistent pressure to ZERO pressure.

The only reason people here are piling on Greg is that they've seen us achieve pressure more lately. People first attributed that pressure to us blitzing more. When it was shown that we haven't blitzed more, I guess people decided to blame it on Greg. The bottom line is that Ware, Canty, and Spears are playing better -- maybe, JUST MAYBE, they realized they needed to step their game up since we were losing a valuable asset by the name of Greg Ellis.

 

[Clove]

no consistant pressure? do you watch the games? i like burnett but you make it sound like he is getting sacks each week. he has 1 sack

You go back and show me the games where he's had consistant pressure. IMO, Ellis has never had consistant pressure and that's why we've been looking for a DE since Haley left town.

Now I know we've forgotten what it's like to have a beast on the end like Ware is becoming, someone like Charles Haley who was consistantly in the QB's face. We all love Ellis because he's such a nice guy, but it's time to move on folks. He was never all pro caliber, he was just a really good DE, and now he's still a solid DE and an average to below average OLB.

Adios Ellis!

 

[lspain1]

Wow, some of these responses amaze me.

Just stop and ask yourself two questions:

1. Did Ellis get pressure? (Obvious answer: Yes)

2. Have Carpenter or Singleton applied pressure? (Obvious answer: No)

Basically, the added pressure lately has come from the linemen (and Ware) stepping up their play. Hatcher being healthy hasn't hurt, either. He looks like the pick of the draft at this point. I can't think of a single occasion in which Greg was beat in coverage or beat in space. How was he against the run? That's debatable, but he couldn't possibly have been so bad as to warrant going from consistent pressure to ZERO pressure.

The only reason people here are piling on Greg is that they've seen us achieve pressure more lately. People first attributed that pressure to us blitzing more. When it was shown that we haven't blitzed more, I guess people decided to blame it on Greg. The bottom line is that Ware, Canty, and Spears are playing better -- maybe, JUST MAYBE, they realized they needed to step their game up since we were losing a valuable asset by the name of Greg Ellis.

I, for one, have not been bashing Ellis. My point is, versus the NY Giants with Tiki Barber, pressure is NOT the complete answer. The stretch running plays and swing passes were huge against us last time. Mannaing is not as big a threat as Barber (and Jacobs) in this game IMO. We'll get to see how we do in a few hours.