Gibbs and Greg Williams...

dcjules

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With all the hype and praised being lavished upon Gibbs, I ask....Is it him or Williams really leading that team....We sit here and bash BP about how he does this or that, yet in watching that game and the year they had, its Williams and that Defense that is making the diffrence....Hey, dont get me wrong they are in the playoffs and have won a game, kudos....but their offense is "lets throw it up and get lucky" to Moss and give it to Portis enough and eventually he will bust loose....I really dont see genuis there, I do with the Defense....So after hearing the espn guys on Sat have their lovefest with the SKins and Gibbs.....I say its Williams who should get the hype, not Gibbs.....No wonder they paid him to stay....
 

SkinsandTerps

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And Parcells has done what without Belichik ?

Billick has done what without Marvin Lewis ?

Jimmy Johnson did what without Norv ?
 

Swat

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SkinsandTerps said:
And Parcells has done what without Belichik ?

Billick has done what without Marvin Lewis ?

Jimmy Johnson did what without Norv ?


Thats not the point.

The point was . . . virtually all of the Commanders success this season is due to Greg Williams and his defense.

Joe Gibbs offense has been putrid for the majority of the season. It took him 11 weeks to figure out you need to run the ball to have success.

If not for Greg Williams . . . Washington would be a 5-11 team.
 

CaptainAmerica

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SkinsandTerps said:
And Parcells has done what without Belichik ?

Billick has done what without Marvin Lewis ?

Jimmy Johnson did what without Norv ?

I think the point he's making is that Gibbs is known as an offensive guru and the Skins offense has, for the most part of two years, been "offensive". He's just making an observation.

It's similar to Brian Billick, (supposedly an offensive "genius"), winning a Super Bowl with Marvin Lewis' defense and an offense that was really just staying out it's defense's way and trying not to blow the game.
 

superpunk

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Swat said:
Thats not the point.

The point was . . . virtually all of the Commanders success this season is due to Greg Williams and his defense.

Joe Gibbs offense has been putrid for the majority of the season. It took him 11 weeks to figure out you need to run the ball to have success.

If not for Greg Williams . . . Washington would be a 5-11 team.

But I can't wait for him to take over as HC. Hello, Buffalo!!!!
 

Bull Frog

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dcjules said:
With all the hype and praised being lavished upon Gibbs, I ask....Is it him or Williams really leading that team....We sit here and bash BP about how he does this or that, yet in watching that game and the year they had, its Williams and that Defense that is making the diffrence....Hey, dont get me wrong they are in the playoffs and have won a game, kudos....but their offense is "lets throw it up and get lucky" to Moss and give it to Portis enough and eventually he will bust loose....I really dont see genuis there, I do with the Defense....So after hearing the espn guys on Sat have their lovefest with the SKins and Gibbs.....I say its Williams who should get the hype, not Gibbs.....No wonder they paid him to stay....
Yes, Williams is the real reason for their success and they know it. They locked him up as Defensive Coordinator and he will be their next head coach.
 

THUMPER

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I've been saying this since we signed Parcells. His choices for coordinators and assistants has been abysmal IMO. Retaining Zimmer was a total shock to me as I thought he would be the first one out the door after Campo was fired. If we were going to keep anyone I thought it would be Joe Avezzano and the kicking coach (name escapes me).

Zimmer was the last guy I thought Parcells would want since his style was completely anathema to Bill's. Campo/Zimmer's 4-3 "bend-but-don't-break" style is the opposite of Parcells 3-4 attacking defense that he usually employed in terms of priorities. In one, you try to limit what the offense can do, in the other you try to dictate to the offense what to react to.

Bringing in Payton and Carthon to run the offense was typical of Parcells' desire to surround himself with familar people. I don't know how much of our offensive woes can be attributed to Payton as I think it is more Parcells who is dictating the conservative approach.

Parcells always had top quality coordinators and assistants in the past and it was a large part of why he was successful. The lack of quality assistants is also a large part of why he hasn't been so successful here in Dallas. Same goes for Jimmy in Miami. He had some excellent assistants working under him in Dallas (and at Da U) but when he went to the Dolphins he didn't have those same caliber of assistants and it showed.

Every successful HC has had a good staff working under/with him. Barry Switzer was up front about that when he came to Dallas. He said that his style was to hire great assistant coaches and let them do most of the work, When he came here he was stuck with Jimmy's leftovers and it didn't work too well after the first couple of years.

Gibbs was smarter than Parcells IMO in hiring guys like Gregg Williams, Joe Bugel, and others who had the pedigree and a proven track record. Parcells, on the other hand, went mostly with younger guys, or guys with little experience at the position, or with guys that didn't fit his style.

STs coach Bruce DeHaven is an enigma to me. He had a long history of outstanding success with the Bills and 49ERs as a STs coach but our STs units have sucked since he came on board. He was the one assistant that Bill hired that I thought was a good hire but it hasn't turned out that way for some reason. He needs to go.

I'd like to see us replace Zimmer, DeHaven, and Sparano (OL coach). I think Payton will go to the Packers so he will need to be replaced as well but not because he isn't getting it done.
 

jksmith269

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No ONE coach wins anything in the NFL. Football is the Ultimate team sport all the way from management to the players. It takes everyone being on the same page and having the same agenda. The HC is only as good as the weakest assistant coach the strongest D is only as good as it's weakest player so on so on.....
 

Wheat

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The trick is to mix it up.

You bring in some guys who have track records, and some young guns who are the next generation. Then you let them all talk, and decide which direction to go.
 

Zman5

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Hiring your assistants are part of being a HC. Gibbs made the decision to hire Williams. So you have to give Gibbs some props for that. Parcells decided to promote Soprano to be our OL coach instead of hiring some known OL coach who has done a good job at the NFL level. So Parcells deserves some criticism for that.
 

dcjules

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SkinsandTerps said:
And Parcells has done what without Belichik ?

Billick has done what without Marvin Lewis ?

Jimmy Johnson did what without Norv ?

Dont get me wrong, BP has his share of critics on his success w/o his boy Belichik....its just in watching Washington right now, is it Gibbs or Williams who really is "coaching" them....credit for surrounding yourself with good people, no doubt!!!
 

thewivil

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Swat said:
Thats not the point.

The point was . . . virtually all of the Commanders success this season is due to Greg Williams and his defense.

Joe Gibbs offense has been putrid for the majority of the season. It took him 11 weeks to figure out you need to run the ball to have success.

If not for Greg Williams . . . Washington would be a 5-11 team.

In the end, does it really matter?
 

SkinsandTerps

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dcjules said:
Dont get me wrong, BP has his share of critics on his success w/o his boy Belichik....its just in watching Washington right now, is it Gibbs or Williams who really is "coaching" them....credit for surrounding yourself with good people, no doubt!!!

Honestly, I see it as a combo of both.
Gibbs needed updating, Williams needed to learn how to be a better coach.

Commanders players exemplify a Gibbs coached teams, personalities like quiet leaders like Moss (Monk) , boisterous leaders like Portis (Riggins), and role players who know their role.

Defensively the players have taken on the mentality that Williams brings to the table. Only we can beat ourselves type of thing.
 

CrankyTodd

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The Commanders averaged 22.4 points per game during the regular season, good for 13th out of 32 teams.

The Commanders averaged 330.6 yards per game during the regular season, good for 11th out of 32 teams.

The Commanders possessed the ball for an average of 31:44 during the regular season. Fifth out of 32 teams.

The Commanders converted 42.2 percent of 3rd down attempts during the regular season, tied for sixth out of 32 teams.

Not bad for a team with one wide receiver.
 

Zimmy Lives

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SkinsandTerps said:
Honestly, I see it as a combo of both.
Gibbs needed updating, Williams needed to learn how to be a better coach.

Commanders players exemplify a Gibbs coached teams, personalities like quiet leaders like Moss (Monk) , boisterous leaders like Portis (Riggins), and role players who know their role.

Defensively the players have taken on the mentality that Williams brings to the table. Only we can beat ourselves type of thing.

I agree. The Commanders have quickly taken on the personality associated with a Joe Gibbs team. I'm especially impressed with the o-line. They may not receive a lot of recognition but they are a tough, solid bunch!
 

clayman

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Did someone actually say that the Skins were getting praised? Who on earth by?? Not Lenny P, not Dr. Z, not Peter King, the ESPN Countdown guys spent all weekend apologizing for Eli and the Giants as did Bradshaw and the Fox guys.... I don't think there is a team in the league this year that has gotten less respect but alas...earwax.
 

Way 'nuff

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kingwhicker said:
Good Lord, they are sure coming out of the woodwork now aren't they?

Yeah, kinda like the star when you guys are good.

Anyway, Gibbs has an eye for talent, he's put it to good use. A certain coach told Cooley that he'd never make it in the NFL. That certain coach watched a few weeks ago while Cooley had 3 td's.

He also knew Santana Moss would be an upgrade over Coles. He also felt that Brunell wasn't done. He knew Portis would be a good rb for us.

Gibbs always surrounds himself with a good coaching staff as well. Back in the day it was Petitbon, now it's Williams. I think you'd find most coaches do the same, wouldn't you agree?

Gibbs deserves a lot of the credit, regardless...we're light years from where we were with Spurrier and the other coaches we've had.

I find it funny how some people want to say it's really Williams that has gotten us here. What, does that make Cowboy fans feel better about their position?
 
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