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Gil Brandt On NFL Radio

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by SFloridaCowboy, Jun 17, 2020.

  1. aria

    aria Well-Known Member

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    Alzeheimers = sympathy

    I’m not going to respect someone’s outdated opinion just because of what they did or thought 30 or 40 years ago. That’s absurd. Society or the game of football would never advance if everyone had that mindset.
     
  2. Bullflop

    Bullflop Well-Known Member

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    Early on in his career, long before joining the Cowboys staff, Gil Brandt was a baby photographer. He was the most knowledgeable scout around the NFL for a time before and shortly after computerization finally became more sophisticated in the late 70s. Eventually, the various talent organizations became a primary info source, they pretty much took over as the leading sources of NFL talent evaluation. He still keeps up with talent evaluation as best as any one aged individual can but it's done pretty much in terms of being fodder for media publicity. He's still quite well respected within that framework.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
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  3. SFloridaCowboy

    SFloridaCowboy Member

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    When the team needed an influx of new talent, Landry and Brandt failed

    1978 1st round, Larry Bethea, DE a big, big bust;
    2nd round FB Todd Christiansen, who refused to play TE and clashed with coaches, who dumped him and he became Al-Pro TE
    3-6 busts
    3 Dave Hudgens DT
    4 Alois Blackwell RB
    5 Rich Rosen G
    6 Harold Randolph LB
    7 Tom Randall G


    1979 draft, 3rd round, best player on board, Joe Montana, as Boys had the podium.

    Roger, Danny White and #2 pick in '78 Glen Carano, "we are overloaded with Qb's, let's pass on Joe, get the best TE, Doug Cosbie." Doug became starter in 84. I loved him, very good choice, except we passed on Montana, same skinny size as Danny White, 6'2" 185, but Joe had "it."

    1st round 1979, 238 lb center from Tennessee, Robert Shaw. In 1980 he came back bigger and stronger ( steroids?) and started in 1980, then blew out his knee mid season.

    2nd round 79, CB Aaron Mitchell, bust. Had been sensation in camp. Charlie Waters called him "AM, PM." When he hits you it is a.m., when you wake up from the hard hit, it is p.m.

    1980 no 1st and 2nd rounders, John Dutton trade.
    3 Bill Roe LB BUST
    3 James Jones RB BUST

    78-80 DRAFTS, only one good player Doug Cosbie
    1981 1st pick OT Howard Richards, BUST

    1986
    1 Mike Sherrard WR UCLA kept breaking bones
    2 Darryl Clack RB bust
    3 Mark Walen DT bust
    4 Max Zendejas K waste and a bust
    6 Thornton Chandler TE, 3rd stringer at best, so bust


    When the team needed an influx of new talent, Landry and Brandt failed and we all suffered, at least those of us a bit older.

    In 73-77, Brandt engineered trades which gave us Too Tall Jones, Randy White and Dorsett, all superstars, which kept team going, but ......
    thereafter, terrible drafts, some of them highlighted above, dragged the team down to obvlion, as the Boys became the laughing stock of the NFL. A dark period in Cowboy fandom and in my life.

     
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  4. fivetwos

    fivetwos Well-Known Member

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    It's fairly easy to see how and why the team got to the point it was at around 88/89 if you look at those drafts.

    The Dutton trade didnt help.

    Same as if you look at what happened leading into the Campo years.

    Awful drafting, Galloway trade didnt help.

    You cant blow every draft pick and not be a bad team.

    Games are won and lost in April.
     
  5. Diehardblues

    Diehardblues Well-Known Member

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    Because his history demands respect.

    And perhaps there were more contributing factors to the struggles in Cowboys downturn in 80’s.
     
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  6. Diehardblues

    Diehardblues Well-Known Member

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    The downturn of the 80’s was several contributing factors. Misses in draft is certainly one of them. The rest of the league caught up with Cowboys computerized info.

    Losing great asst coaches like Dan Reeves, Mike Ditka and Gene Stallings who all went on to much success as Head Coaches took a toll as well.

    And of course after Danny White went down in 1986 the Cowboys and Landry never recovered not having another winning season with the likes of Hogeboom and Pueller at QB.
     
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  7. Typhus

    Typhus Catching Catfish

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    Total ignorance, if you don't understand history than you will have no understanding of the future.
     
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  8. Plankton

    Plankton Well-Known Member

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    The idea for using computer tech was driven by Clint Murchison and Tex Schramm. Brandt provided the criteria to analyze, but the ideas came from the owner and Schramm. Schramm had used computers for the Winter Olympics coverage when he worked for CBS in the late 1950's (he still worked for CBS on the Squaw Valley games in 1960, despite having been hired for the Cowboys in 1959). He reached out to IBM, who provided the computers for CBS, and with the assistance of Salaam Querishi (an IBM computer engineer), the computer was introduced to football scouting.
     
  9. Whyjerry

    Whyjerry Well-Known Member

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    Better to be great once then never be great at all. Brandt is and was a legend in the sport. Who cares if he lost his touch towards the end.
     
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  10. Plankton

    Plankton Well-Known Member

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    The biggest reason why the Cowboys drafting went south was due to the move of the draft in the calendar. In 1976, the draft moved from being held in January to April, then it went to May in 1977. These extra months allowed other teams to close the gap with the Cowboys computer model. After the Cowboys stole Tony Dorsett in a trade with the Seahawks, their selections fell off the cliff. Picking at the end of the first didn't help, necessarily, but they began reaching for guys, looking for "steals", and failing spectacularly. You'd be hard pressed to find a team that drafted worse than the Cowboys between 1978 and 1987. By the time 1988 rolled around, Bob Ackles had more of a say in personnel than Brandt did.
     
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  11. Rayman70

    Rayman70 Well-Known Member

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    one big mistake on his rankings is Danny White. He should be 3rd,not 4th. Dak hasn't gotten us where we need to be just yet. Love Dak..but 3 is too rich.
     
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  12. aria

    aria Well-Known Member

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    No crap? I guess I wasted 4 years in college teaching and majoring in history, thanks for the lesson professor. Guess I’ll get back to reading about the history of Texas and why the Spanish failed to colonize it.

    BTW, you’re absolutely right about understanding history and it’s relation to why and how things are and will be which is why some of us realize that Gil is out of touch with todays game and have moved on whereas others still hang on to what he says as if it’s gospel because of something he accomplished over 20-30 years ago and is mostly irrelevant to todays game.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
  13. Bobhaze

    Bobhaze Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your assessment of Gil Brandt’s fade at the end of his great career.

    Moral of the story: All NFL Front Office executives and coaches have an effectiveness “expiration date”. 100% of them. Tom Landry, Don Shula, Gil Brandt, Charlie Casserly and many, many others included.

    Attention Jerry Jones: Hasn’t your “effectiveness expiration date” passed?
     
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  14. snapper

    snapper Well-Known Member

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    How could you forget Rod Hill. IMO, Rod Hill is the greatest 1st-round failure in the history of the Dallas Cowboys. He had all the talent in the world, but he just wasn't into football. Thus the biggest problem with Gil's computer. It could not measure heart and desire.

    Gil was great in his time, but like all of us, our time comes to an end.
     
  15. snapper

    snapper Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget Jim Jeffcoat. Jimmy loved Jeffcoat's leadership.
     
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  16. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member

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    He certainly deserves respect.

    I think the OP's point was that his current opinions on players and draft potential should not be taken as pure gold.
    In fact, they are often fairly awful.
    Does not mean he should not get respect for his past work
     
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  17. Whyjerry

    Whyjerry Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Joe Montana was not good his last couple years. That said in his hey day he was the best. It’s not a crime to lose it. We all do.
     
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  18. JoeKing

    JoeKing Diehard Zone Supporter

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    I think the OP is wrong. Granted, the last 5 years he was with the Cowboys was not great. That does not mean you can just dismiss the other 24 years he was with the Cowboys producing great talent through innovation. He was the one that introduced using computers to the scouting department. This was in a day when only NASA was using computers to do their job. Gil Brandt is rightfully in the RoH and deserves to be in the HoF. IMO, not appreciating him is just a result of ignorance, mostly through youth. In sports, we tend to only consider what we were old enough to witness.
     
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  19. rocyaice

    rocyaice Well-Known Member

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    A bit unfair to blame the Cowboys draft failures on him.
     
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  20. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member

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    http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/teams/

    1989 1 1 1 1 Troy Aikman QB UCLA
    2 2 1 29 Steve Wisniewski G Penn State
    3 2 11 39 Darly Johnston RB Syracuse
    4 3 1 57 Mark Stepnoski C Pittsburgh
    5 3 12 68 Rhondy Weston DE Florida
    6 4 1 85 Tony Tolbert DE Texas-El Paso
    7 5 1 113 Keith Jennings TE Clemson
    8 5 7 119 Willis Crockett LB Georgia Tech
    9 5 13 125 Jeff Roth DT Florida
    10 7 1 168 Kevin Peterson LB Northwestern
    11 8 1 196 Charvez Foger RB Nevada
    12 9 1 224 Tim Jackson DB Nebraska
    13 10 1 252 Rod Carter LB Miami (FL)
    14 11 1 280 Randy Shannon LB Miami (FL)
    15 12 1 308 Scott Ankrom WR Texas Christian
    1988 1 1 11 11 Michael Irvin WR Miami (FL)
    2 2 14 41 Ken Norton Jr. LB UCLA
    3 3 12 67 Mark Hutson G Oklahoma
    4 4 12 94 Dave Widell T Boston College
    5 6 14 151 Scott Secules QB Virginia
    6 7 13 178 Owen Howen T Oregon State
    7 8 12 205 Mark Higgs RB Kentucky
    8 9 11 232 Brain Bedford WR California
    9 10 14 263 Billy Owens DB Pittsburgh
    10 11 13 290 Chad Hennings DT Air Force
    11 12 12 317 Ben Hummell LB UCLA
    1987 1 1 12 12 Danny Noonan DT Nebraska
    2 2 11 39 Ron Francis DB Baylor
    3 3 12 68 Jeff Zimmerman G Florida
    4 4 11 95 Kelvin Martin WR Boston College
    5 5 12 124 Everett Gay WR Texas
    6 6 11 151 Joe Onosai G Hawaii
    7 7 12 180 Kevin Sweeney QB Fresno State
    8 8 11 206 Kevin Gogan G Washington
    9 9 12 235 Alvin Blount RB Maryland
    10 10 11 262 Dale Jones LB Tennessee
    11 11 12 291 Jeff Ward K Texas
    12 12 11 318 Scott Armstrong LB Florida
    1986 1 1 18 18 Mike Sherrard WR UCLA
    2 2 6 33 Darryl Clack RB Arizona State
    3 3 19 74 Mark Walen DT UCLA
    4 4 18 100 Max Zendejas K Arizona
    5 6 2 140 Thornton Chandler TE Alabama
    6 6 12 150 Stan Gelbaugh QB Maryland
    7 6 20 158 Lloyd Yancey G Temple
    8 7 19 185 Johnny Holloway WR Kansas
    9 8 18 212 Topper Clemons RB Wake Forest
    10 9 21 242 John Ionata G Florida State
    11 10 20 269 Bryan Chester G Texas
    12 11 19 296 Garth Jax LB Florida State
    13 12 2 307 Chris Duliban LB Texas
    14 12 17 322 Tony Flack DB Georgia
    1985 1 1 17 17 Kevin Brooks DE Michigan
    2 2 16 44 Jesse Penn LB Virginia Tech
    3 3 20 76 Crawford Ker G Florida
    4 4 19 103 Robert Lavette RB Georgia Tech
    5 5 2 114 Herschel Walker RB Georgia
    6 5 7 119 Matt Darwin C Texas A&M
    7 6 4 144 Kurt Ploeger DE Gustavus Adolphus
    8 6 17 157 Matt Moran G Stanford
    9 7 10 178 Karl Powe WR Alabama State
    10 7 16 184 Jim Herrmann DE Brigham Young
    11 8 20 216 Leon Gonzales WR Bethune-Cookman
    12 9 19 243 Scott Stasburger LB Nebraska
    13 10 18 270 Joe Jones TE Virginia Tech
    14 11 17 297 Neal Dellocono LB UCLA
    15 12 16 324 Karl Jordan LB Vanderbilt
    1984u 1 1 25 25 Todd Fowler TE Stephen F. Austin
    2 2 26 54 Malcolm Moore WR USC
    3 3 25 81 Jeff Spek TE San Diego State
    1984 1 1 25 25 Billy Cannon Jr. LB Texas A&M
    2 2 12 40 Victor Scott DB Colorado
    3 3 25 81 Fred Cornwell TE USC
    4 4 26 110 Steve DeOssie LB Boston College
    5 5 1 113 Steve Pelluer QB Washington
    6 5 25 137 Norm Granger RB Iowa
    7 6 12 152 Eugene Lockhart LB Houston
    8 6 26 166 Joe Levelis G Iowa
    9 7 25 193 Ed Martin LB Indiana State
    10 8 26 222 Mike Revell RB Bethune-Cookman
    11 9 8 232 John Hunt G Florida
    12 9 25 249 Neil Maune G Notre Dame
    13 10 26 278 Brian Salonen TE Montana
    14 11 25 305 Dowe Aughtman DT Auburn
    15 12 26 334 Carl Lewis WR Houston
    1983 1 1 23 23 Jim Jeffcoat DE Arizona State
    2 2 22 50 Mike Walter LB Oregon
    3 3 21 77 Bryan Caldwell DE Arizona State
    4 4 24 108 Chris Faulkner TE Florida
    5 5 23 135 Chuck McSwain RB Clemson
    6 6 22 162 Reggie Collier QB Southern Mississippi
    7 7 21 189 Chris Schultz T Arizona
    8 8 24 220 Lawrence Ricks RB Michigan
    9 9 22 246 Al Gross DB Arizona
    10 10 22 273 Eric Moran T Washington
    11 11 21 300 Dan Taylor T Idaho State
    12 12 24 331 Lorenzo Bouier RB Maine
    1982 1 1 25 25 Rod Hill DB Kentucky State
    2 2 26 53 Jeff Rohrer LB Yale
    3 3 26 81 Jim Eliopulous LB Wyoming
    4 4 18 101 Brian Carpenter DB Michigan
    5 4 26 109 Monty Hunter DB Salem
    6 5 26 137 Phil Pozderac T Notre Dame
    7 6 4 143 Ken Hammond G Vanderbilt
    8 6 26 165 Charles Daum DT Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo
    9 7 26 193 Bill Purifoy DE Tulsa
    10 8 21 216 George Peoples RB Auburn
    11 8 26 221 Dwight Sullivan RB North Carolina State
    12 9 26 249 Joe Gary DT UCLA
    13 10 26 277 Todd Eckerson T North Carolina State
    14 11 16 295 George Thompson WR Albany State
    15 11 25 304 Michael Whiting RB Florida State
    16 12 26 332 Rich Burtness G Montana
    1981 1 1 26 26 Howard Richards T Missouri
    2 2 25 53 Doug Donley WR Ohio State
    3 3 25 81 Glen Titensor DE Brigham Young
    4 4 8 91 Scott Pelluer LB Washington State
    5 4 25 108 Derrie Nelson LB Nebraska
    6 5 26 137 Danny Spradlin LB Tennessee
    7 6 25 163 Vince Skillings DB Ohio State
    8 7 7 173 Ron Fellows DB Missouri
    9 7 25 191 Ken Miller DB Eastern Michigan
    10 8 25 218 Paul Piurowski LB Florida State
    11 9 25 246 Mike Wilson WR Washington State
    12 10 25 273 Pat Graham DT California
    13 11 26 302 Tim Morrison G Georgia
    14 12 25 329 Nate Lundy WR Indiana
    1980 1 3 22 78 Bill Roe LB Colorado
    2 3 24 80 James Jones RB Mississippi State
    3 4 22 105 Kurt Petersen DE Missouri
    4 5 23 133 Gary Hogeboom QB Central Michigan
    5 6 24 162 Tim Newsome RB Winston-Salem State
    6 7 24 189 Lester Brown RB Clemson
    7 8 23 216 Larry Savage LB Michigan State
    8 9 25 246 Jackie Flowers WR Florida State
    9 10 24 273 Matthew Teague DE Prairie View A&M
    10 11 23 300 Gary Padjen LB Arizona State
    11 12 25 330 Norm Wells DE Northwestern
     
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