Give Zeke some props

[Proof]

this conversation is about his failure to produce the last two games. When we needed him.

he didn’t score on that play. Your memory is as bad as zeke has been the last two weeks.

demonstrably?

yeah, like how Ronnie broke down in detail, with receipts, how you were wrong. you just jump around ignoring reality lol. knock yourself out though.

 

[RonnieT24]

The blocking was well performed on that 4th down attempt. All Zeke had to do was make 1 guy (the Safety) miss. This is what he gets paid $15 million dollars a year for. To come through in situations like that and keep drives alive. He failed miserably. He has failed over and over and over. He doesn't deserve that pay. He's no Emmitt. Emmitt would have gotten those 4th & 1s or 2s, even at the goal line.

Okay this is a statement which is laced with bias.. The blocking was absolutely horrible on that play.. Look at this:





This is Zeke at the handoff.. The play is designed to go off tackle right. .. only at the moment Zeke takes the handoff Williams and Biadasz have both been pushed 3 yards back off the ball. Steele and Schultz have a stalemate so Zeke cuts back toward them.. unfortunately when he does the safety steps into the hole.



He might have cut to the outside but the tight end wasn't exactly driving his man off the ball so Zeke correctly chose to hit it in behind Steele. The safety is aiming for his waist so there was no opportunity so truck him and if he tried to cut outside the guy just would have dove for his feet and tripped him up or slowed him up enough that the DE who was basically standing there dancing with Schultz would have had him easily... Zeke tries to go power on power and was moving the safety backwards until Williams' guy comes off and finishes the tackle.



Bottom line is I don't know how anyone could watch this play and see 3/5 of our line knocked back 3 yards and say that this play was well blocked.. Sorry that's just stupid. Martin and Steele were the only ones who did NOT get pushed back at the snap. Which would have been great if Steele was still playing next to Zack.. but he wasn't.

 

[Aviano90]

Sorry but that's not the way it works with running backs. The backup frequently has a higher ypc average for a myriad of reasons we've gone over a thousand times. And we don't "have to compare Zeke to a backup" Yall just keep wanting to. Most of us are fine with the 1-2 punch and are happy when Pollard is productive in his role as it helps Zeke be more productive in his role and it helps the team. Actual fans of the team would be overjoyed at that.. not be jumping up and down every day claiming that the "whoooo the backup looks better." Especially when for about 6 weeks now that hasn't been the case. Pollard looked better one game..

Since the Charger game Zeke has 101 carries for 519 yards (5.1 ypc) and 4 TD meanwhile Pollard has 56 carries for 280 yards. Ironically an even 5.0 ypc and no TDs. So despite this superior running ability and despite not being asked to run in short yardage and goal line nearly as often as Zeke is, Pollard is averaging less yards per tote than Zeke over the last 6 games.. This really strains the credibility of the claim that he is "the better runner." More telling is that after 5 straight games of double digit carries we've seen his ypc steadily declining.. Indicating that maybe the notion that he is not suited for full time duty is not as preposterous as some claim. I still like him in the change up back role.. I think he's great at it.. but if he continues to wear down as this season carries on, that may indicate that's where he needs to stay.

You are fixated on Tony Pollard. I am not. I want Zeke compared to the likes of Henry, and Chubb, not Pollard. So I am not part of the “ya’ll” you speak of. I wouldn’t even entertain the argument Pollard should be the starter, but they get you on that hook, line and sinker all the time. I just want Pollard to get more touches so both backs are efficient, like what we are seeing this year.

As for Pollard, I see him getting “tough” yards Zeke is typically praised for. He is running more inside and he has been used in short yardage. I looked at the splits on Pro Football Reference and 12 of his 72 attempts have been with 1-3 yards to go. Zeke has 24 of his128 attempts in that category. So Pollard is running short yardage on 16.7% of his compared to Zeke’s 18.8%. Not much of a difference there. Pollard does not get much opportunities inside the 10 though.

 

[Ranched]

 

[RonnieT24]

You are fixated on Tony Pollard. I am not. I want Zeke compared to the likes of Henry, and Chubb, not Pollard. So I am not part of the “ya’ll” you speak of. I wouldn’t even entertain the argument Pollard should be the starter, but they get you on that hook, line and sinker all the time. I just want Pollard to get more touches so both backs are efficient, like what we are seeing this year.

As for Pollard, I see him getting “tough” yards Zeke is typically praised for. He is running more inside and he has been used in short yardage. I looked at the splits on Pro Football Reference and 12 of his 72 attempts have been with 1-3 yards to go. Zeke has 24 of his128 attempts in that category. So Pollard is running short yardage on 16.7% of his compared to Zeke’s 18.8%. Not much of a difference there. Pollard does not get much opportunities inside the 10 though.

I am not "fixated" on anything. I am merely engaging in the discussion as presented. I will talk football all day and night on any player at any position so long as the discussion stays civil and intellectually honest. Interesting numbers on the short yardage splits.. Do they have a breakdown of the number of jet sweeps each back has gotten to run? Not that the jet sweep would work for Zeke anyway because if he came in motion the entire defense would not follow Pollard and let Zeke run untouched to the edge.. They'd follow Zeke.. I do agree and have noted on multiple occasions that Pollard has run much better inside this year. But like I said he may be wearing down as his ypc has been dropping for 5 straight weeks. But to his credit, dude runs hard as hell when he gets it. He just doesn't have enough rocks in his pockets to consistently get tough yards.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Okay this is a statement which is laced with bias.. The blocking was absolutely horrible on that play.. Look at this:





This is Zeke at the handoff.. The play is designed to go off tackle right. .. only at the moment Zeke takes the handoff Williams and Biadasz have both been pushed 3 yards back off the ball. Steele and Schultz have a stalemate so Zeke cuts back toward them.. unfortunately when he does the safety steps into the hole.



He might have cut to the outside but the tight end wasn't exactly driving his man off the ball so Zeke correctly chose to hit it in behind Steele. The safety is aiming for his waist so there was no opportunity so truck him and if he tried to cut outside the guy just would have dove for his feet and tripped him up or slowed him up enough that the DE who was basically standing there dancing with Schultz would have had him easily... Zeke tries to go power on power and was moving the safety backwards until Williams' guy comes off and finishes the tackle.



Bottom line is I don't know how anyone could watch this play and see 3/5 of our line knocked back 3 yards and say that this play was well blocked.. Sorry that's just stupid. Martin and Steele were the only ones who did NOT get pushed back at the snap. Which would have been great if Steele was still playing next to Zack.. but he wasn't.

First of all, the Oline never got knocked back 3 to 5 yards backwards, so stop being untruthful just to push your argument. If there was any push backwards, maybe 1 yard at the most was lost on a Olineman or two, that was it. Overall, there was a hat on a hat. Every Olineman was blocking their man, and a wall was actually created. The problem was Zeke. He expects a hole 5 feet wide to open up for him. That's not being realistic on 3rd or 4th & 1 or 2. Most of the times, your Oline will get a hat on a hat (as shown in the pictures you posted), and it is up to your RB to be quick, elusive and decisive to either creep through hard through a crevice and drive his legs quick and fast to get that 1st down...or make a defender miss and hit it to the open area (on this play it was to the outside). Zeke did neither. He hesitated and waited too long while allowing the incoming Safety to tackle him 1 yard in the backfield. Absolutely inexcusable for someone being paid among the 3 highest RBs in the league. Zeke has failed to convert on his part on short yardage attempts when needing the 1st down to keep a drive alive over and over again since late in 2018. The guy got paid and stopped being the Zeke of old when he was a BEAST his first 2+ years when he came into the league.

 

[RonnieT24]

First of all, the Oline never got knocked back 3 to 5 yards backwards, so stop being untruthful just to push your argument. If there was any push backwards, maybe 1 yard at the most was lost on a Olineman or two, that was it. Overall, there was a hat on a hat. Every Olineman was blocking their man, and a wall was actually created. The problem was Zeke. He expects a hole 5 feet wide to open up for him. That's not being realistic on 3rd or 4th & 1 or 2. Most of the times, your Oline will get a hat on a hat (as shown in the pictures you posted), and it is up to your RB to be quick, elusive and decisive to either creep through hard through a crevice and drive his legs quick and fast to get that 1st down...or make a defender miss and hit it to the open area (on this play it was to the outside). Zeke did neither. He hesitated and waited too long while allowing the incoming Safety to tackle him 1 yard in the backfield. Absolutely inexcusable for someone being paid among the 3 highest RBs in the league. Zeke has failed to convert on his part on short yardage attempts when needing the 1st down to keep a drive alive over and over again since late in 2018. The guy got paid and stopped being the Zeke of old when he was a BEAST his first 2+ years when he came into the league.

IF there was push back? So you're postulating that Williams and Biadasz were SUPPOSED end up with their feet on the 40 yard line when the line of scrimmage was the 37 and a half? But you're right.. they didn't get knocked back 3 yards off the line of scrimmage.. It was only 2.5. My apologies for exaggerating. But in the second pic you can see Biadasz's right foot clearly beyond the 40 yard line almost touching the 41.. You can also see in that pic that Williams is standing straight up and is being driven back. In the first pic you also clearly see Collins' man getting upfield and is squared up in position to set the edge a yard across the line of scrimmage. If you want to hate Zeke then fine.. but to call this blocking even adequate reeks of agenda. A hat on a hat doesn't mean getting knocked back into the play. A hat on a hat means stalemating your man so the back can find a crease. If there is no crease then the blocking failed but you can still get the yardage if the blockers aren't getting driven back into the runner's lap. Your insistence on changing the laws of physics because of the size of a guy's paycheck makes no sense to me and I won't engage it. I talk football.. if I wanted to talk finance I'd go find Milt Friedman's website.

 

[America's Cowboy]

IF there was push back? So you're postulating that Williams and Biadasz were SUPPOSED end up with their feet on the 40 yard line when the line of scrimmage was the 37 and a half? But you're right.. they didn't get knocked back 3 yards off the line of scrimmage.. It was only 2.5. My apologies for exaggerating. But in the second pic you can see Biadasz's right foot clearly beyond the 40 yard line almost touching the 41.. You can also see in that pic that Williams is standing straight up and is being driven back. In the first pic you also clearly see Collins' man getting upfield and is squared up in position to set the edge a yard across the line of scrimmage. If you want to hate Zeke then fine.. but to call this blocking even adequate reeks of agenda. A hat on a hat doesn't mean getting knocked back into the play. A hat on a hat means stalemating your man so the back can find a crease. If there is no crease then the blocking failed but you can still get the yardage if the blockers aren't getting driven back into the runner's lap. Your insistence on changing the laws of physics because of the size of a guy's paycheck makes no sense to me and I won't engage it. I talk football.. if I wanted to talk finance I'd go find Milt Friedman's website.

2 ex-Cowboys said Zeke gets paid the big bucks to make plays, which includes being able to make 1 defender miss in order to convert those short 3rd or 4th and 1s or 2s. No excuses. Zeke repeatedly keeps failing to do that. Every Olineman was blocking someone. If you want to be upset, be upset at Kellen Moore for refusing to use a fullback or lead blocker in those types of situations. Regardless, Zeke has to be able to make 1 defender miss. He fails to do so over and over. Zeke is to blame.

 

[RonnieT24]

2 ex-Cowboys said Zeke gets paid the big bucks to make plays, which includes being able to make 1 defender miss in order to convert those short 3rd or 4th and 1s or 2s. No excuses. Zeke repeatedly keeps failing to do that. Every Olineman was blocking someone. If you want to be upset, be upset at Kellen Moore for refusing to use a fullback or lead blocker in those types of situations. Regardless, Zeke has to be able to make 1 defender miss. He fails to do so over and over. Zeke is to blame.

Being driven backward is not "blocking someone" on a running play. If this was pass protection you could make that claim but on running plays the WORST you want from your lineman is a stalemate. Just hold the guy at the line of scrimmage and you are doing your job. When the dline pushes a blocker backward on a running play that blocker is losing. I know you know this and are simply being obtuse because you hate Zeke. I shall leave you to it.. and waste no more time pointing out the obvious to you.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Being driven backward is not "blocking someone" on a running play. If this was pass protection you could make that claim but on running plays the WORST you want from your lineman is a stalemate. Just hold the guy at the line of scrimmage and you are doing your job. When the dline pushes a blocker backward on a running play that blocker is losing. I know you know this and are simply being obtuse because you hate Zeke. I shall leave you to it.. and waste no more time pointing out the obvious to you.

I don't hate Zeke. Was one of his biggest supporters, but the facts are the guy sucks at picking up those short yard or two to keep drives alive. Clearly, he is overpaid. Even if an Olineman moves 1 yard back, as long as he is still maintaining his block, Zeke needs to do his job to make a move to find and hit the open space. If not, stay low and hit any crevice hard while leaning forward and pumping your legs until you get that needed yard. Clearly, Zeke is afraid to go airborne and leap over for a yard+ to get that first down the way the RB Greats of the past used to do it. Now, he's unwilling or unable to either make 1 man miss or hit any crevice hard while staying low and pumping your legs to gain that yard. Instead, he comes up standing high, slow and guessing/hesitating. Both Marcus Spears and Isaiah Stanback blamed Zeke on that failed attempt. I guess you know more than they do?

 

[CowboyRoy]

yeah, like how Ronnie broke down in detail, with receipts, how you were wrong. you just jump around ignoring reality lol. knock yourself out though.

Who’s Ronnie? Your boyfriend?

None of you can explain to me why a 500k per year back has a higher average then our 15 million dollar guy.

cuz you can’t. You lose.

 

[RonnieT24]

I don't hate Zeke. Was one of his biggest supporters, but the facts are the guy sucks at picking up those short yard or two to keep drives alive. Clearly, he is overpaid. Even if an Olineman moves 1 yard back, as long as he is still maintaining his block, Zeke needs to do his job to make a move to find and hit the open space. If not, stay low and hit any crevice hard while leaning forward and pumping your legs until you get that needed yard. Clearly, Zeke is afraid to go airborne and leap over for a yard+ to get that first down the way the RB Greats of the past used to do it. Now, he's unwilling or unable to either make 1 man miss or hit any crevice hard while staying low and pumping your legs to gain that yard. Instead, he comes up standing high, slow and guessing/hesitating. Both Marcus Spears and Isaiah Stanback blamed Zeke on that failed attempt. I guess you know more than they do?

I have an advantage over both of them.. I played the position and took many handoffs behind linemen getting pushed back into me. It's wonderful that they think Zeke was supposed to win there.. I don't care. There was no "crevice" to hit. The center and backside guard got knocked backward which cut off the play's original path which was what we used to call the 2 hole, which would have been right behind Martin. Had those two simply held their ground Zeke gets in behind Martin and drives for 5 yards. But strong as he is, he aint movin 4 300 pound dudes out of the way.. so he cut back towards the place where the guys were at least holding their own. He didn't see the safety until he was already committed .. You wanna bang on him for lack of vision there fine that's a fair critique. A lotta **** be goin on on a play like this.. Hard to find every defender.. but once he was committed to that hole the DE had outside leverage on Schultz so bouncing it was not an option .. the only chance was to slam into the filler and drive. The safety was already low so it was going to be tough sledding but I firmly believe that if it was just him Zeke would have been able wriggle forward and get the first down. The problem was that Williams lost his man and that was who really cleaned up the play. The "make one guy miss" argument is bogus..

Count the tacklers here and tell me which one was was the one who was supposed to miss?

 

[America's Cowboy]

I have an advantage over both of them.. I played the position and took many handoffs behind linemen getting pushed back into me. It's wonderful that they think Zeke was supposed to win there.. I don't care. There was no "crevice" to hit. The center and backside guard got knocked backward which cut off the play's original path which was what we used to call the 2 hole, which would have been right behind Martin. Had those two simply held their ground Zeke gets in behind Martin and drives for 5 yards. But strong as he is, he aint movin 4 300 pound dudes out of the way.. so he cut back towards the place where the guys were at least holding their own. He didn't see the safety until he was already committed .. You wanna bang on him for lack of vision there fine that's a fair critique. A lotta **** be goin on on a play like this.. Hard to find every defender.. but once he was committed to that hole the DE had outside leverage on Schultz so bouncing it was not an option .. the only chance was to slam into the filler and drive. The safety was already low so it was going to be tough sledding but I firmly believe that if it was just him Zeke would have been able wriggle forward and get the first down. The problem was that Williams lost his man and that was who really cleaned up the play. The "make one guy miss" argument is bogus..

Count the tacklers here and tell me which one was was the one who was supposed to miss?

I played halfback in my very early years, so I have a clue as well. Why show a stillshot where Zeke was already getting tackled? Why not show the stillshots seconds before that where Zeke had time and some room to make a better decision and a move?

 

[RonnieT24]

I played halfback in my very early years, so I have a clue as well. Why show a stillshot where Zeke was already getting tackled? Why not show the stillshots seconds before that where Zeke had time and some room to make a better decision and a move?

I did show a stillshot of the moment Zeke took the handoff.. at which point both the center and LG had already been pushed back cutting off the lane to the intended hole. Had Zeke stayed on that line he would have slammed into Biadasz's back and been driven backwards. If he tried to go outside right where Collins was losing he gets tackled for a 4 yard loss. He cut back inside left because he could see that Steele and Schultz were NOT being knocked backwards.. Now there was an instant when he might have taken it outside left but with the safety shooting the gap and the DE controlling Schultz that probably fares no better than bouncing outside right. And if you played running back then I know you have heard A MILLION TIMES "get north-south!!!" Especially in short yardage situations. Turning upfield and trying to attack the LOS was exactly what you are coached to do.

"Seconds before when Zeke could have made a better decision?" Really?

The ball is snapped at 13:39 on the clock.. in fact it was the instant the clock went from 13:40 to 13:39.
Zeke takes the handoff at 13:38. When he takes the handoff WIlliams and Biadasz are already pushed back clogging the play side hole.
Zeke and the safety collide at 13:37 on the clock. The second tackler joins before the clock goes to 13:36.

So there was a second and change between the time Zeke took the handoff and the collision with the safety. Two seconds from snap to collision. Exactly where are these "seconds when he could have made a better decision?" The whole play took 3 seconds from snap to tackle. Maybe watch the play at full speed and not super slo mo to get a better idea.

 

[America's Cowboy]

I did show a stillshot of the moment Zeke took the handoff.. at which point both the center and LG had already been pushed back cutting off the lane to the intended hole. Had Zeke stayed on that line he would have slammed into Biadasz's back and been driven backwards. If he tried to go outside right where Collins was losing he gets tackled for a 4 yard loss. He cut back inside left because he could see that Steele and Schultz were NOT being knocked backwards.. Now there was an instant when he might have taken it outside left but with the safety shooting the gap and the DE controlling Schultz that probably fares no better than bouncing outside right. And if you played running back then I know you have heard A MILLION TIMES "get north-south!!!" Especially in short yardage situations. Turning upfield and trying to attack the LOS was exactly what you are coached to do.

"Seconds before when Zeke could have made a better decision?" Really?

The ball is snapped at 13:39 on the clock.. in fact it was the instant the clock went from 13:40 to 13:39.
Zeke takes the handoff at 13:38. When he takes the handoff WIlliams and Biadasz are already pushed back clogging the play side hole.
Zeke and the safety collide at 13:37 on the clock. The second tackler joins before the clock goes to 13:36.

So there was a second and change between the time Zeke took the handoff and the collision with the safety. Two seconds from snap to collision. Exactly where are these "seconds when he could have made a better decision?" The whole play took 3 seconds from snap to tackle. Maybe watch the play at full speed and not super slo mo to get a better idea.

0:52 second mark is where this play starts...

Zeke could have easily ran right and been able to get that 1 yard either behind La'el or out wide around the edge. Zeke could have cut back a split second quicker, but at least lower your pads and fight for that yard or make the Safety miss the way Spears and Stanback said. Instead, Zeke was standing straight up from the moment he took the handoff and never had any leverage even though he had a 8 yard headstart from the line of scrimmage. Also, his peripheral vision is not that good, plus, he hesitates and stays upright too much.

 

[RonnieT24]

0:52 second mark is where this play starts...

Zeke could have easily ran right and been able to get that 1 yard either behind La'el or out wide around the edge. Zeke could have cut back a split second quicker, but at least lower your pads and fight for that yard or make the Safety miss the way Spears and Stanback said. Instead, Zeke was standing straight up from the moment he took the handoff and never had any leverage even though he had a 8 yard headstart from the line of scrimmage. Also, his peripheral vision is not that good, plus, he hesitates and stays upright too much.

Dude you're seeing what you wanna see. Have at it. We're not changing each other's minds. That play was poorly blocked. You don't have to admit it.. I can see it. I can't hold a football discussion with someone claiming that a lineman being pushed backward is "blocking his man." We clearly have different definitions of the word "blocking." With that I'm done .. Later.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Dude you're seeing what you wanna see. Have at it. We're not changing each other's minds. That play was poorly blocked. You don't have to admit it.. I can see it. I can't hold a football discussion with someone claiming that a lineman being pushed backward is "blocking his man." We clearly have different definitions of the word "blocking." With that I'm done .. Later.

No. You simply want a 5 yard wide hole on a 4th & 1. That's not being realistic. If you're paid $15 million a year, the least you should be able to do is fight for and get that 1 yard needed on a 4th & 1, especially when all 5 of your linemen and TE are each blocking someone.