Going for it on 4th down

[CWR]

I'm good with it if we make it, if not I want somebody's head

Lol so true. It's either genius or dofus.

 

[big dog cowboy]

What goes through your mind when we're about to snap the ball on 4th down??? Please give your thoughts...

I hope Kellen doesn't make a completely idiotic play call. Just like the one he did last Thursday.

My grandmother knew what play the Cowboys called for crying out loud. So did the Giant defense.

 

[McKDaddy]

I'm more in favor of being aggressive than being timid but this is a situation by situation "feel" decision that relies on the HC being in tune with every aspect of his team & flow of the game. Ie, there isn't any one answer.

For example, if you are in second quarter of a tight game with an opponent that you expect the margin of victory\loss to hinge on a few plays, I'm OK with playing field position and not "giving" your opponent a chance to seize momentum. Make them work for everything.

If you are outmatched and figure you have to take risks to have much of a chance, then by all means take your shots.

If you are running for less than 3 yards a carry and you run the ball needing 4 yards, it's probably not the right play call even if going for it is the right decision.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm more in favor of being aggressive than being timid but this is a situation by situation "feel" decision that relies on the HC being in tune with every aspect of his team & flow of the game. Ie, there isn't any one answer.

For example, if you are in second quarter of a tight game with an opponent that you expect the margin of victory\loss to hinge on a few plays, I'm OK with playing field position and not "giving" your opponent a chance to seize momentum. Make them work for everything.

If you are outmatched and figure you have to take risks to have much of a chance, then by all means take your shots.

If you are running for less than 3 yards a carry and you run the ball needing 4 yards, it's probably not the right play call even if going for it is the right decision.

Situations matter. I know pure analytics would say different but there are things I believe analytics does not take into account.

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

Why doesn't every team do what Philly is doing on 4th down with that big rugby scrum? It's unstoppable.

Got stopped multiple times Sunday night.

 

[BAT]

..I'm all for it. I think MM wants to build momentum early.
Dallas has such good.offense, they will have success more than not.
You can almost feel when a 4th down play should be called.

Then he (meaning McCarthy) should have played to the strength of Cowboys offense and ran it on 3rd and 2 as well as on 4th and 2.

And run it to the right side, Zack and Steele have been statistically our strongest side.

 

[BAT]

Mike spent time learning analytics in his year off. Going for it on 4th is generally the better bet in many situations. Coaches haven't done it because they get criticized for it when it fails and get very little credit when it works.

League-wide, this will continue to be the pattern. In a few years, every team is going to have an analytics guy in the box providing real time probabilities in various situations.

Mike lies.

Like a LOT.

 

[Runwildboys]

I read somewhere that Hurts squats around 600 lbs. Plus he has a body built like a RB. There probably aren't very many teams that are comfortable with their QBs being pushed from behind by 2 big TEs into a pile of 300 pounders.

I don't think that should be a legal play. One person pushing, maybe, but a whole pile of guys pushing one player into a pile of people trying to stop that player seems extremely dangerous.

 

[Jipper]

It's stupid when we are on the opponents side of the field and drives me nuts. With our defense we should be pinning them back close to their end zone in those situations.

We have one of the best punters in the nfl

 

[G2]

I don't think that should be a legal play. One person pushing, maybe, but a whole pile of guys pushing one player into a pile of people trying to stop that player seems extremely dangerous.

I agree. It will inevitably trend toward more teams doing it. More gray area for interpretation. I've already noticed some of these pile-movers stop and then start forward again which defeats the purpose of forward progress and/or blowing a play dead.

 

[Runwildboys]

I agree. It will inevitably trend toward more teams doing it. More gray area for interpretation. I've already noticed some of these pile-movers stop and then start forward again which defeats the purpose of forward progress and/or blowing a play dead.

There's also the fact that it makes it harder to see where the ball is.

 

[Nova]

I don't like doing it on our half of the field on the first series of the game.

Like, maybe feel the other team out first.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Not exactly sure of our success rate, I'm not a numbers guy. But we've had some success. My question is, before Mike became our coach, we didn't go for it much on 4th down. Do you like being more aggressive, would you have rather punted the ball in some instances?

What goes through your mind when we're about to snap the ball on 4th down??? Please give your thoughts...

Going for it on 4th down in your own territory on the very first quarter of the first quarter against and inferior opponent that's only hope of winning is getting a lead and running is NOTHING short of total stupidity.

Problem I have with MM's over aggressiveness is that he doesnt use any kind of common sense or in game management logic to it.

 

[erod]

We are 6-12 on 4th down this year.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2022_splits.htm

What are we on real 4th downs? The desperation 4th-and-15 plays at the end of the game don't really count.

 

[G2]

There's also the fact that it makes it harder to see where the ball is.

Great point! They have a hard enough time in a more typical pile. Or, just spotting the ball with refs RIGHT there.
I didn't think of safety, but I imagine the inner-pile, surrounded by a couple of layers of more players probably will get some guys injured. They get ugly in the trenches.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Not exactly sure of our success rate, I'm not a numbers guy. But we've had some success. My question is, before Mike became our coach, we didn't go for it much on 4th down. Do you like being more aggressive, would you have rather punted the ball in some instances?

What goes through your mind when we're about to snap the ball on 4th down??? Please give your thoughts...

I recall Jimmy Johnson being aggressive in more ways than just 4th downs. The throw to Alvin Harper in the 1992 NFC Championship game after the 9ers scored was a gutsy call. But then he had Troy Aikman throwing that slant, and from what Irvin said, Troy could put it on a dime 9 out of 10 times.

My feelings are these.

First, this is something the team should practice. The entire scenario from the decision to go for it to the various plays that could be run. And how some plays are more conducive than others depending on the yard marker, and side of the fifty yard line. But then I think teams "appear," to be confused when managing their time outs. This is another area I would practice if I were a head coach.

But, for certain, I would have a 4th down squad, utilizing an offensive lineman in the backfield as a fullback, and perhaps an additional offensive lineman on the line of scrimmage as a declared TE.

In a game Sunday there were several 4th down plays called to secure a first down. The announcers commented the team trying to make the first had two offensive linemen in the backfield to push the pile forward. I hadn't noticed that before.

But, I also feel it must be said that going for it sends a message to the Cowboys defense that the head coach believes in them to the point that if this doesn't work, you got our backs.

Anything under two yards and I'm more than likely to want to press forward. However, anything on the other side of the fifty in the opponents end of the field would cause me to consider it.

I'm curious if a team were to just set that standard of fifty or less, and under two yards, we are going for it every time, if this has a pronounced effect on the defense of the other team?

 

[75boyz]

Some approve of the aggressiveness. I don't. I think this HC has taken a few too many risky mistakes in the past on 4th down that I would have punted away.
Especially with this year's improved defense.

Live to play another down.
Especially if it's a strong opponent..
Turnover on downs is still a turnover.

 

[JustChip]

Then he (meaning McCarthy) should have played to the strength of Cowboys offense and ran it on 3rd and 2 as well as on 4th and 2.

And run it to the right side, Zack and Steele have been statistically our strongest side.

That was what irked me about the last offensive series in the GB game. If you’ve made the decision to go for it on 4th down, run the ball on 3rd down at least. Especially after they had run the ball very well on that drive up to that point. The only thing that makes sense is MM didn’t tell Boy Wonder that he had 2 plays to pick up the 3 yards. That’s an issue if that’s the case.

BTW, I had no problem going for it in the GB game. But no way in the Giants game at that location.

 

[BAT]

Comparing McCarthy to Jimmy is where I almost lost you.

But I agree with your point, practice the 4th downs or special plays like Jimmy did.

Like their lives depended on it. McCarthy is just way too nonchalant about everything.

I recall Jimmy Johnson being aggressive in more ways than just 4th downs. The throw to Alvin Harper in the 1992 NFC Championship game after the 9ers scored was a gutsy call. But then he had Troy Aikman throwing that slant, and from what Irvin said, Troy could put it on a dime 9 out of 10 times.

My feelings are these.

First, this is something the team should practice. The entire scenario from the decision to go for it to the various plays that could be run. And how some plays are more conducive than others depending on the yard marker, and side of the fifty yard line. But then I think teams "appear," to be confused when managing their time outs. This is another area I would practice if I were a head coach.

But, for certain, I would have a 4th down squad, utilizing an offensive lineman in the backfield as a fullback, and perhaps an additional offensive lineman on the line of scrimmage as a declared TE.

In a game Sunday there were several 4th down plays called to secure a first down. The announcers commented the team trying to make the first had two offensive linemen in the backfield to push the pile forward. I hadn't noticed that before.

But, I also feel it must be said that going for it sends a message to the Cowboys defense that the head coach believes in them to the point that if this doesn't work, you got our backs.

Anything under two yards and I'm more than likely to want to press forward. However, anything on the other side of the fifty in the opponents end of the field would cause me to consider it.

I'm curious if a team were to just set that standard of fifty or less, and under two yards, we are going for it every time, if this has a pronounced effect on the defense of the other team?

 

[john van brocklin]

Not exactly sure of our success rate, I'm not a numbers guy. But we've had some success. My question is, before Mike became our coach, we didn't go for it much on 4th down. Do you like being more aggressive, would you have rather punted the ball in some instances?

What goes through your mind when we're about to snap the ball on 4th down??? Please give your thoughts...

Going for it early against the midgets was nuts