Golden Tate's hit on Sean Lee

[FuzzyLumpkins]

coog, I think it was illegal because he led with his helmet. And he did end up getting Lee in the chin, though I'm not convinced that was intentional.

What I'm saying is that if he just hit him the same way with his shoulder in the chest, I think that should be legal because I don't think Lee was "defenseless", not do I think that was a "blindside" hit.

As for saying Tate should just "get in his way"... Wow. I don't know what football is becoming when you're not even supposed to hit people anymore.

You certainly want that hit to be legal. That's for sure.

You don't want to believe it was intentional but the dip and rip is a known technique and he used it intentionally. The notion that he was like "whoopsies I jumped straight up and snapped my body straight. it was an accident." is absurd.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Okay, good.

I still think it's absurd that he's now considered a "defenseless" player.

He is still considered a defenseless player. He cannot see the blocker as he's chasing someone coming form the other direction. It's not a difficult concept. It's pretty obvious that Russell was running from the backfield and Tate 'peeled-back' from upfield.

You cannot hit a defenseless player in the head. That is the rule.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Has Lee been whining about the hit? I missed seeing/reading/hearing about that. All I was aware of was that the following has been his viewpoint:

... But Lee says he didn’t have a problem with it.​

“It’s one of those deals. It’s part of the game,” Lee said. “It’s part of football. The NFL will judge whether that’s legal or not. Whatever it is, I’ll deal with it. I’m on to the next game. I’m not worried about it. I’m more worried about how we can be better on defense, how we can improve from the mistakes we made.”​

source: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/18/sean-lee-calls-golden-tate-block-part-of-football/​

The one thing I read, where he expressed some criticism about crackback hits/blocks by Lee, but it didn't strike me as whining:

“Crackback hits, that’s not a definition of toughness,” Lee said. “A definition of toughness is hitting, squaring up, being able to do your job as hard as you can every single play. That’s at least what I believe. Anybody can crackback block.”​

source: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/19/nfl-fines-golden-tate-21000-for-block-on-sean-lee/​

Unless you mean the part where he remarked he had "a little bit" of an issue with Tate's after-the-hit celebrating:

“Of course, he’s trying to extend the play,” Lee said. “I don’t blame him for blocking me. That’s part of football. The only issue I had a little bit was him celebrating like he did. But then again, that’s part of football, too. I’m ready to move on.”​

source: http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/a...For-Hit-/0044335f-62e8-46cc-b8e2-852aede9e33c​

​

Were there examples of whining I missed? I've been thinking that of all the whining about Tate's hit/block, it's been on the part of others and not Sean Lee.

I don't think you missed anything. I saw what you did. I think you just took my statement too literally. Its just the fact that he's been talking about it so much this week. It happened, it was illegal, Tate is a punk and likes to run his mouth. That's it. The only reason Lee is talking about it so much is because the media won't shut up about it. Im sure he'd rather say nothing and just show Tate who he is the next time they meet on the field.

Wasn't trying to put down Lee.. he's my favorite player on the team and i've loved watching him play back to my PSU days when we attended the university at the same time. Just wish he would stop answering the media's questions about it. Everybody knows what happened, and knows it was a dirty play. No need to spend anymore time on it.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

He is still considered a defenseless player. He cannot see the blocker as he's chasing someone coming form the other direction. It's not a difficult concept. It's pretty obvious that Russell was running from the backfield and Tate 'peeled-back' from upfield.

You cannot hit a defenseless player in the head. That is the rule.

You're right that he is considered a defenseless player in that situation, and Lab is also correct that it is absurd to label him as such. imo.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You're right that he is considered a defenseless player in that situation, and Lab is also correct that it is absurd to label him as such. imo.

It's a blindside hit. It's pretty obvious that Lee was looking into the backfield and chasing the QB when Tate cut against the grain from upfield and went head hunting. If you thing that dip and rip is not a known technique to someone that has been playing football for around a decade then you are being intentionally obtuse.

I guess sneaking up on someone and rabbit punching them is okay too.

If a guy cannot defend himself going for the head should be illegal.

 

[wittenacious]

I don't think you missed anything. I saw what you did. I think you just took my statement too literally. Its just the fact that he's been talking about it so much this week. It happened, it was illegal, Tate is a punk and likes to run his mouth. That's it. The only reason Lee is talking about it so much is because the media won't shut up about it. Im sure he'd rather say nothing and just show Tate who he is the next time they meet on the field.

Wasn't trying to put down Lee.. he's my favorite player on the team and i've loved watching him play back to my PSU days when we attended the university at the same time. Just wish he would stop answering the media's questions about it.

Glad to hear the media didn't wear Sean down and get him to say something that could paint him as any kind of a whiner. He's been so great at staying above that sorta fray. I've been appreciative of how he's handled the whole thing.

Everybody knows what happened, and knows it was a dirty play. No need to spend anymore time on it.

Couldn't agree with you more! Enough's enough already.


Back to this week's fresh slate of games... hopefully starting w/ a drubbing of the Giants by the Panthers, starting here any minute. That would be lovely.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

It's a blindside hit.

They're practically shoulder to shoulder. :laugh2:

And what is this "dip and rip" you keep talking about?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They're practically shoulder to shoulder. :laugh2:

And what is this "dip and rip" you keep talking about?

His head is in his chest. Are you daft? The only reason why its 'almost' shoulder to shoulder is because your head is attached to your shoulders. That's like saying punching someone is 'almost' elbowing them. He ducked his head for goodness sake.

And think about it.

DIP your head
RIP it upwards

It's not like it's a new concept in football.

If I need to I will put the exact same still up as last time and show you where he RIPS his head up and straightens his legs.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He starts here:

and ends here:

And sorry if I am belaboring the point but it's baffling to me how it's hard to understand.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I'm talking about the "blind side" part of it, Fuzzy. You know, the part I quoted. Not the spearing part. How could it be a blindside hit when their numbers are almost touching? The Clifton hit really was from the side.

And this is getting old so I'm gonna drop it, but your "Dip and Rip" sounds like basic football technique -- sink your hips with a flat back and explode up and through. If you mean it strictly has some kind of illegal way to spear someone, I've never heard of that and I doubt anyone else has either.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm talking about the "blind side" part of it, Fuzzy. You know, the part I quoted. Not the spearing part. How could it be a blindside hit when their numbers are almost touching? The Clifton hit really was from the side.

And this is getting old so I'm gonna drop it, but your "Dip and Rip" sounds like basic football technique -- sink your hips with a flat back and explode up and through. If you mean it strictly has some kind of illegal way to spear someone, I've never heard of that and I doubt anyone else has either.

It doesn't matter. You cannot come from up field towards you own endzone and go head hunting like that. Lee is slightly running upfield because of the pursuit angle he is taking but hes looking into the backfield at Russel.

Tate peels off waits for him and does the dip and rip from upfield. Its textbook.

 

[MapleLeaf]

They're practically shoulder to shoulder. :laugh2:

And what is this "dip and rip" you keep talking about?

...your picture again, but more importantly watch it in slow moving video.

He's clearly looking at the runner. He's also in a stage where his shoulders are only beginning to turn north and south.

Tate has two feet on the ground Lee only has one.

Both Tate hands are in the inside position. Lee's hands are still are in the "drive" position you often see runners using as they pump their arms up and down while running.

There is absolutely no evidence that Lee is aware of Tate or has even steadied his body for the hit that is about to come. One player is in the "brace" position and the otehr is in the "drive" position.

Is that Tate or Lee's fault? No in either case. But I do agree with the league that you have to put rules down to avoid these types of scenarios. Why?

Because in football, and even Hockey, for that matter there is more than your collection of "Garden Variety Idiots" who think that head hunting is an acceptable part of the sport and their imbecilic minds believe this is a representation of true athletic ability.

Tate was not to blame for the situation both players got into, but he is at fault for not using better judgement and keeping his feet on the ground through out the hit and placing his shoulder into Lee's body.

This is far from it. This just shows how stupid the player is and the fact his participation in the sport has very little to do with athletic ability and the understanding of the fundamentals of the sport.

I beleive you may not realize the gravity of what you are condoning. Think about football leagues from Pop Warner to the NFL all being taught the rip and dip and practicing drills to look for players who are in positions with a focused blindside.

The league has a rule to deal with these and football is still a great game without these types of acts ever being taught or allowed on the field.

Funny how Tate is able to talk so freely of the play, but doesn't address the fact that the league provides the same type of protection to his position in the case of a "defenseless" receiver.

 

[MapleLeaf]

I'm talking about the "blind side" part of it, Fuzzy. You know, the part I quoted. Not the spearing part. How could it be a blindside hit when their numbers are almost touching? The Clifton hit really was from the side.

And this is getting old so I'm gonna drop it, but your "Dip and Rip" sounds like basic football technique -- sink your hips with a flat back and explode up and through. If you mean it strictly has some kind of illegal way to spear someone, I've never heard of that and I doubt anyone else has either.

...is only taught now in one area of football. The Offensive and more specifically the "Defensive" lines.

It's accepted in coaching circles because both players are in the "brace" position. The players are moving forward face to face and this is considered even odds and as much preparation as the sport can allow.

Big difference with the Tate/Lee situation.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

First of all, davidyee, I am not advocating head hunting. I understand why the league doesn't want players getting hit in the head. Please don't act like I'm championing spearing people.

One more time, what I take issue with is the "blind side" aspect. People seem to keep posting that Lee doesn't see Tate... Well, no kidding. That's why he got blown up so badly. If Lee'd seen him, he never would've been sent flying. But he only doesn't see him because his head is turned about 70* to the way his shoulders are pointing. I bet if you asked Lee, he'd say he should have seen the blocker and most times he would and does.

One more time, here is the Sapp-Clifton hit... Big difference IMO.

As for this dip and rip stuff... I don't know if you're saying the rip is thrusting your head straight up or what, but you don't do what I described when a fullback is rooting a LB out of the hole? Or a LB is taking on that blocker? You only do that on the line? That doesn't even make sense unless we're talking about different things.

 

[JBond]

Wow.

The announcers doing the game were certain Tate's hit was going to draw a flag - you don't believe them.

Mike Pereira, the former vp of officiating for the league, tweets within minutes of the play happening that it should have drawn a flag - you don't believe him either.

Babe Laufenberg uses a video produced by the league to illustrate exactly why the hit was illegal - still not convinced.

The NFL essentially confirms all of the above by notifying Tate that he is going to be fined - you grudgingly admit that maybe the hit was technically illegal, but still maintain the league is in the wrong. Perhaps if you were to hear it from a burning bush...

Some just cannot admit when they are wrong. This is one of those occasions where they have dug in so deep they cannot or refuse to retreat from their misguided opinion. There are some stubborn folks on this board.