Greg Ellis Trade?

[Waffle]

Call the Broncos...ship Ellis's but outta here and have the Broncos trade Plummer to the Boyz...since everyone thinks Henson or Romo are busts (ala. Krankcase)...

:starspin

We'd have to ship Elli$ to Cleveland first before the Broncos would consider trading for him.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'd rather have an experienced backup for now and Volek would fit the bill. But I am sure if they trade him, it will be to someone he could start for. Besides, I don't think Vince Young is ready to start, nor would Jeff Fisher go at it with no experienced QB around to help him. Young isn't ready to start and if they threw him off the deep end they would be some ugly results.

Chances are Volek will start the season but Tenn has already said they will put in packages in place to use Young this year within the game and basically get his feet wet but after this season or maybe later in this season this is Young’s job. I’m not much into starting rookie QB’s but when your talking a high #1 it is not uncommon for that QB to get a lot of playing time early on, the investment is why too high to have him sit for more than 1 season

 

[5Stars]

We'd have to ship Elli$ to Cleveland first before the Broncos would consider trading for him.

That is a real good point, Waffle!

You earned three Beautiful Stars!

:starspin :starspin :starspin

 

[Alexander]

I didn't really follow the McNair saga too closely.

Was there talk about trading him before the draft, or did it look like they drafted Young with the intent that he would sit behind McNair for a couple of years?

The same management team had no problem sitting McNair for a while even though he was a top 3 pick, and I think it was the right thing to do. I think it is with Young as well, but it would be interesing to see if they planned on handling him differently.

I think they wanted to keep McNair around, but knew that he'd have to take a massive pay cut to keep him. I am sure that was part of the plan, but it isn't like recent developments with McNair caught them by surprise. It just didn't work out exactly as planned. I don't think they have ever had designs on starting Young right away. If so, they are more foolish than I think.

 

[5Stars]

I don't think they have ever had designs on starting Young right away. If so, they are more foolish than I think.

Why are they foolish? The Boyz started Krankcase right away, and he led us to the playoffs.

 

[Waffle]

That is a real good point, Waffle!

You earned three Beautiful Stars!

:starspin :starspin :starspin

Thank you. Three outta five ain't bad!

 

[Alexander]

Why are they foolish? The Boyz started Krankcase right away, and he led us to the playoffs.

We didn't make the playoffs in Krankcase's rookie season.

And believe it or not, Krankcase was more prepared to play than Young. He simply has some bad habits that Chow will have to coach out of him before they can just throw him out there and hope to win games. He'll start next year for sure, but I don't think they want to rush him, nor do they need to.

 

[5Stars]

Thank you. Three outta five ain't bad!

Sorry...

:starspin :starspin

 

[5Stars]

We didn't make the playoffs in Krankcase's rookie season.

And believe it or not, Krankcase was more prepared to play than Young. He simply has some bad habits that Chow will have to coach out of him before they can just throw him out there and hope to win games. He'll start next year for sure, but I don't think they want to rush him, nor do they need to.

I agree with that...and I hate saying this, but, I bet if Krankcase would have stayed away from the Devils Weed, he would have been a better QB then Young...

 

[BigDFan5]

Mathis and Freeney play on the same team, so they can't both be LDEs (Mathis is the LE). You can add Reggie Heyward there though.

Taylor plays the right side also.

I just named the DE's since that is his position, being a "top 10 LDE" means nothing if you rank 20th overall

 

[Eskimo]

Here is 12 in no specific order

Osi Umenyiora
Simeon Rice
Michael Strahan
John Abraham
Dwight Freeny
Julius Peppers
Jason Taylor
Robert Mathis
Adewale Ogunleye
Aaron Schobel
Jared Allen
Derrick Burgess (if he can continue like last year)

Osi = RDE
Rice = RDE
Abraham = RDE
Freeny = RDE
Taylor = RDE

All of these guys are edge rushing RDEs by their nature and not really the sort of player you would want lined up consistently at LDE unless you don't care about stopping the run (like the Falcons).

I'm not sure about Schobel but I thought he played RDE for the Bills.

Mathis plays LDE but is not an everydown player - he is a pass rush specialist at the LDE position and weighs about 240 pounds. I would just count him as a DE/OLB tweener and not a true LDE.

Burgess has had one good season and is really more of a pass rusher than all-around player but hard to ignore 16 sacks.

Not sure if Allen is playing LDE for the Chiefs.

You left out Shaun Ellis who is probably a slightly better player than Greg Ellis.

You can make an argument for Kearse but he hasn't shown great pass rush ability the past couple of years in Philly and is not as good against the run as Ellis.

You could also make an argument for Kevin Carter but I'm not convinced he is better than Ellis either.

 

[BigDFan5]

Osi = RDE
Rice = RDE
Abraham = RDE
Freeny = RDE
Taylor = RDE

All of these guys are edge rushing RDEs by their nature and not really the sort of player you would want lined up consistently at LDE unless you don't care about stopping the run (like the Falcons).

So you would take Ellis over these guys?

I'm not sure about Schobel but I thought he played RDE for the Bills.

Mathis plays LDE but is not an everydown player - he is a pass rush specialist at the LDE position and weighs about 240 pounds. I would just count him as a DE/OLB tweener and not a true LDE.

Burgess has had one good season and is really more of a pass rusher than all-around player but hard to ignore 16 sacks.

Not sure if Allen is playing LDE for the Chiefs.

You left out Shaun Ellis who is probably a slightly better player than Greg Ellis.

You can make an argument for Kearse but he hasn't shown great pass rush ability the past couple of years in Philly and is not as good against the run as Ellis.

You could also make an argument for Kevin Carter but I'm not convinced he is better than Ellis either.

Out of all the DE's I listed L or R, which would you take Ellis over?

 

[Eskimo]

I just named the DE's since that is his position, being a "top 10 LDE" means nothing if you rank 20th overall

The job demands are significantly different at each position.

It is just like comparing SOLB and WOLB - entirely different positions requiring players with different abilities.

It is somewhat analagous to a 3-technique and 1-technique DT. Technically they are both 4-3 DTs but with very different responsibilties.

Anyhow, being amongst the top 10 4-3 LDEs still means he is up against about 60 other players in the league given about 26 teams play the 4-3 so it is nothing to sneeze about.

You also have to consider that he may not be that easy to replace as we spent numerous draft picks over the years and didn't find one quality player among the whole lot of them.

In terms of signing them as FAs, just take a look at how much guys like Rice, Strahan and Jason Taylor make - and that's assuming one of them ever hit the FA market.

 

[Eskimo]

So you would take Ellis over these guys?


Out of all the DE's I listed L or R, which would you take Ellis over?

I would take Ellis over Mathis for sure.

I'd have to take a closer look at Schobel and Allen to give more of an informed opinion on those two to be honest with you. I know they are good pass rushers but I'm not sure about the rest of their game.

The rest I would take over Ellis.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

We trade Ellis and our average pass-rush tanks this year.

 

[Eskimo]

We trade Ellis and our average pass-rush tanks this year.

I agree - he and Ware are the only guys I would trust to get any pressure on the QB.

I place a lot of blame here on BP - he really soured the relationship he had with Ellis last season and it has come back to bite him in the arse this year. It sounds like he has tried to rectify the situation but it also sounds like Ellis isn't buying in to the program.

It is too bad this situation wasn't dealt with earlier as we could have gotten into the bidding war for Abraham - the downside is that we would have had to move Ware over to SOLB and I'm not sure he could handle the coverage responsibilities.

 

[big dog cowboy]

We trade Ellis and our average pass-rush tanks this year.

Maybe a angry Ellis really tears it up for us this year.

 

[Alexander]

We trade Ellis and our average pass-rush tanks this year.

So keeping a disgruntled Ellis makes the pass rush?

He isn't a pass rusher who does it off his athleticism. It's all effort.

If he is giving less than his best, which he has said he would unless he is paid, it won't matter.

So you are saying we should give in and pay him because we are scared of what becomes of our pass rush?

 

[AbeBeta]

We trade Ellis and our average pass-rush tanks this year.

Exactly why he's staying.

Unhappy or not, I think we all know Ellis is too much of a pro to not give it his all on the field.

 

[Alexander]

Exactly why he's staying.

Unhappy or not, I think we all know Ellis is too much of a pro to not give it his all on the field.

You'd think that, but he has already said it: no more, no less.

I just don't think he would be effective if unhappy. I don't care how much of a pro he is.