Grizz: One more on Quinn, plus Ellis and Ferguson speculation

Gryphon

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by Grizz Sun May 06, 2007 at 02:45:18 AM EDT

I almost decided not to post this USA Today article, because the Tony Romo vs. Brady Quinn debate probably has run its course, at least for right now. I’m sure it will come up again once we get a look at Romo and Quinn during the upcoming season. In fact, it will be resurrected every year for a while until one or the other make the argument moot by doing something great, or by failing. But since I posted my own thoughts that it was fair for the Cowboys to pass on Quinn, I’ll let the other side have its say.

But that doesn't erase the questions surrounding the decisions with Romo and Quinn.

Quinn was ranked No. 8 on the Cowboys' draft board. They could have gotten him with the 22nd pick. In others words, they could have gotten a franchise caliber quarterback at a bargain. That won't happen next year, when the risk and the price of a franchise quarterback goes way up. The Cowboys say they didn't want to stunt Romo's growth or ruin his confidence.

It says here that you can never have too many quarterbacks. And it says here that in Dallas, you can't just be a good quarterback — you have to be a special quarterback in the line of a Roger Staubach and a Troy Aikman. Ask Danny White. The Cowboys don't know if Romo is going to be Aikman or White or maybe a Gary Hogeboom.

They owe it to themselves to find the best quarterback for the team. And if that meant drafting Quinn they should have done it. If Romo couldn't handle the competition or if he wasn't mentally tough enough then he would have never made it as the Cowboys' quarterback anyway.


JJT has a team report up at The Sporting News. For some reason he gives a scouting report on Aaron Glenn, as if anybody who follows the Cowboys doesn’t know what Aaron Glenn is all about. I mean, Glenn’s been in the league for over 200 years now, there’s not much new you can say about the guy. JJT also won’t give up the ghost on his "T.O. doesn’t know the playbook" story, and tells us that the Cowboys are working extra hard this year to get T.O. familiar with the offense.

Blah, those two parts of the story are very boring. But it gets a little more interesting when discussing Greg Ellis and the defensive tackle position. JJT on Greg Ellis:

Coach Wade Phillips insists the Cowboys didn't draft Anthony Spencer to replace current outside linebacker Greg Ellis, but it does appear they're preparing to eventually replace him. The Cowboys say Ellis, coming off a ruptured Achilles' tendon he suffered last October, will remain the starter with Spencer used as a situational pass rusher. Frankly, there's no way they could possibly commit to Ellis as a starter until they see him on the field and see how his body responds to a serious injury. They considered trading him last year before moving him from defensive end to linebacker, but opted to keep him. The prudent move would seem to be keeping him on the roster again this year because he's scheduled to make only $2.5 million, a bargain in today's NFL. Besides, he remains the second best pass rusher on the team, a leader and one of the few proven playmakers on the defense. . . .
That’s actually a good point, Ellis does come cheap, but only if he can handle the job. Once the Cowboys see Ellis in training camp, they’ve got to make an evaluation on how healthy he is and decide how much he can help this year and in what situations. For me, this is still a very fluid situation and is not at all settled.

Over at defensive tackle, JJT basically echoes what Jeff Ireland told us earlier this week.

DEFENSIVE TACKLES ANALYSIS: B- Jason Ferguson did a solid job at nose tackle last year, demanding a double-team and anchoring the middle of the line so the linebackers could flow to the ball and make tackles. But he's getting older at one of the game's toughest positions, so the Cowboys must establish more depth. Jay Ratliff is a high energy player who prefers defensive end, but he has become a solid backup at nose tackle. He doesn't have the girth or lower body strength of Ferguson, but he's quicker and never quits on a play. Montavious Stanley, a sixth-round pick last year who was released in training camp, returned late in the season after being cut by Jacksonville. He's a project who must show improvement to make the team.
JJT doesn’t mention Stephen Bowen, who Jeff Ireland has mentioned a couple of times this week. Bowen didn’t play NT last year in Parcells' scheme, so they must think physically he’s the kind of guy who might fit in the Phillips 34. Bowen is listed at 6-5 and 300 lbs., not exactly the big space-eater that we usually associate with the NT in a 3-4. But watching Bowen last year in training camp you could see that he had some quickness for that size and was pretty good about attacking the line of scrimmage. The same thing goes for Jay Ratliff (6-4, 305) who was very active in camp last year and has a very high motor. UDFA Ola Dangduro, who Ireland is also very high on, is 6-2 and around 300 lbs. It’s becoming very obvious that we need to reconstruct our notions of a NT in the Phillips 34. The one-gap scheme opens the position up to lighter players, who rely on quickness and penetration.
 

ZeroClub

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Quinn was ranked No. 8 on the Cowboys' draft board.
Reportedly true
They could have gotten him with the 22nd pick.
Obviously true
In others words, they could have gotten a franchise caliber quarterback at a bargain.
False. We don't know if Quinn is a franchise caliber QB. Opinions are obviously mixed.
That won't happen next year, when the risk and the price of a franchise quarterback goes way up.
Wildly speculative.

The logical way to look at this:

If Quinn was the No. 8 player on the Cowboys board, the Cowboys got reasonable value for passing on him. Most experts speculate that the Browns #1 draft pick next year will be a top 10 overall pick. A top 10 pick for the 8th best player is reasonable value.

There will be a few QBs in next year's draft too. If need be, the Cowboys will get one of them.
 

sago1

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If the Cowboys held their usual minicamp this weekend, we wouldn't have had to put up with Romo/Quinn & Ellis/Spencer speculation. Just shows how desperate we Cowboy fans are for news. Now we've still got to wait until Friday to get a high. Does anybody know if this minicamp is open to the public? Probably not, but if it were we'd get a lot more feedback then the usual media minimal stuff.
 

Wrangler87

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sago1;1489549 said:
If the Cowboys held their usual minicamp this weekend, we wouldn't have had to put up with Romo/Quinn & Ellis/Spencer speculation. Just shows how desperate we Cowboy fans are for news. Now we've still got to wait until Friday to get a high. Does anybody know if this minicamp is open to the public? Probably not, but if it were we'd get a lot more feedback then the usual media minimal stuff.

Don't look now, but you just started another Romo/Quinn & Spencer/Ellis thread.
 

CrazyCowboy

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We do need a backup at NT, therefore, maybe someone can step up to the plate.....
 

masomenos

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ZeroClub;1489544 said:
False. We don't know if Quinn is a franchise caliber QB. Opinions are obviously mixed.

Well I think we can say that the Cowboys, as an organization, thought Quinn had the capability to be a franchise caliber QB, otherwise they wouldn't have had him rated 8th overall. It just speaks highly of their thoughts on Romo, to pass on someone they had rated that highly. Opinions around here may be mixed, but do to Quinn's high spot on the draft board I think it's fairly obvious how Dallas felt about him as a player.
 

MichaelWinicki

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Drafting Quinn would have set this franchise back at least two years... by-passing him was the smart move.

Grizz is wrong.
 

DallasEast

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Grizz;1489518 said:
It says here that you can never have too many quarterbacks. And it says here that in Dallas, you can't just be a good quarterback — you have to be a special quarterback in the line of a Roger Staubach and a Troy Aikman. Ask Danny White. The Cowboys don't know if Romo is going to be Aikman or White or maybe a Gary Hogeboom.
The jury's still out, but I think it's VERY safe to say that Romo has shown more talent at this point of his career than Hogeboom did by comparison. When Hogeboom was made the starter, he had already peaked. The same cannot be said of Romo. JMO.
 

Hostile

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Wrangler87;1489558 said:
Don't look now, but you just started another Romo/Quinn & Spencer/Ellis thread.
Not possible. He's tired of those subjects. I think this was supposed to be about checkers.
 

MichaelWinicki

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DallasEast;1489583 said:
The jury's still out, but I think it's VERY safe to say that Romo has shown more talent at this point of his career than Hogeboom did by comparison. When Hogeboom was made the starter, he had already peaked. The same cannot be said of Romo. JMO.

I never understood the fascination with Hogeboom. He had a stronger arm than D. White but he was less accurate and he didn't have as much mobility.

After watching Hogeboom lead the Cowboys to a massive 3 points against a lousy Bills team-- I couldn't wait to get rid of the guy.

The one thing that Romo has that makes him a potentially great NFL qb is his accuracy. That's something that Romo isn't likely to lose. You're either accurate, like Romo, or you're not like say Hogeboom or Quincy Carter or even Bledsoe for that matter.
 

Clove

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Whatever Quinn is, someone else will be in the 2008 draft, and we can obviously get that person if we need to with our 2 1st rounders.

Give Romo his 2 years (fairly), and at the end of that, if you don't like what you see, you have everything you need to go after a star QB, even if it means getting him from another team with your 2 1st rounders.
 

fortdick

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sago1;1489549 said:
I'm already tired of the Romo/Quinn & Ellis/Spencer speculation

Then this whole season is going to be bad for you. I'm sorry.
 

MichaelWinicki

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Clove;1489589 said:
Whatever Quinn is, someone else will be in the 2008 draft, and we can obviously get that person if we need to with our 2 1st rounders.

Give Romo his 2 years (fairly), and at the end of that, if you don't like what you see, you have everything you need to go after a star QB, even if it means getting him from another team with your 2 1st rounders.

Exactly.

That makes a lot of sense.
 

BouncingCheese

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fortdick;1489591 said:
Then this whole season is going to be bad for you. I'm sorry.
Amen; If you didn't post this thread about these types of discussions that you don't like, we might NEVER have discussed it again. But because you did, we may never know, now will we??
 

Cochese

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Exactly what we needed, more people talking about a player that isnt, and will never be a Cowboy.
 

ZeroClub

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masomenos85;1489576 said:
Well I think we can say that the Cowboys, as an organization, thought Quinn had the capability to be a franchise caliber QB, otherwise they wouldn't have had him rated 8th overall. It just speaks highly of their thoughts on Romo, to pass on someone they had rated that highly. Opinions around here may be mixed, but do to Quinn's high spot on the draft board I think it's fairly obvious how Dallas felt about him as a player.
I disgree on a couple of counts.

1. Maybe people disagree on their definitions of "franchise QB," but if the Cowboys projected Quinn as a future Hall of Fame QB, Quinn would have been slotted well within the top 5. There is no way in the world that the Cowboys would rate an Aikman-caliber QB #8 overall. The Aikman-caliber QB ranks no worse than top 3 or 4 in any draft. A rating of #8 overall isn't a huge endorsement, really.

2. Passing on Quinn doesn't mean that the Cowboys are confident that Romo is the longterm answer at QB. ... only that Romo might be.

IMO, it is obvious that the Cowboys are buying time to see if Romo will be their longer term answer.

If Romo looks like a long term answer, then the Cowboys will lock him up in a long term contract and draft impact (non QB) players in next year's draft.

If Romo doesn't look like the high quality long term answer, then the Cowboys will draft a very high quality QB in the 1st round of next year's draft.

I also think Jerry Jones is wise to adopt this wait-and-see strategy for the QB position.
 

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JustSayNotoTO;1489599 said:
Exactly what we needed, more people talking about a player that isnt, and will never be a Cowboy.
Agreed, of course 'never' may be too strong a word. No team will ever draft or sign every fan's favorite player (well, the Commanders try their best though). It's more important to focus on the players that actually do make up your team's roster because that's just the way it is.
 

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ZeroClub;1489600 said:
I disgree on a couple of counts.

1. Maybe people disagree on their definitions of "franchise QB," but if the Cowboys projected Quinn as a future Hall of Fame QB, Quinn would have been slotted well within the top 5. There is no way in the world that the Cowboys would rate an Aikman-caliber QB #8 overall. The Aikman-caliber QB ranks no worse than top 3 or 4 in any draft. A rating of #8 overall isn't a huge endorsement, really.
Your first point was good enough for me. I agree 100%.
 

J-DOG

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It's funny how people conviently forget that drafting qb's in the first round is like Russian Roulette.
I like Quinn but who knows if he has the right internal makeup to make it in the NFL and be a franchise type quarterback?
We take the qb with first round pick and we are not addressing the need of getting another pressure player.
And people who say well we could have gotten a pass rusher later in the draft...who?
This draft was very slim pickens in getting that OLB/DE hybrid pressure player.
Overall it wasn't a deep draft and especially in the pass rushing dept.
If there is one thing this last draft shows...Getting the best player available is a myth for the most part. That's why Quinn was still on the board til the 22nd pick.
These teams draft for need. Dallas wants to win NOW. We took a chance and traded with Cleveland and lucky for us the Eagles bailed us out and we still got a player who could help us NOW.
Plus we got another 1st round pick next year...
If anyone thinks we played it safe by passing on Quinn you're wrong. We would never get Spencer if we stayed at 36 and JJ did a great job of handling that first selection. :bow:
 

swj010

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"Quinn was ranked No. 8 on the Cowboys' draft board. They could have gotten him with the 22nd pick."

Where was Spencer ranked on their board? What if it was 7 or 9 and he was available at 22 PLUS next year's first? And selecting Brady would have given us a benchwarmer for ae t least 2 years versus an immediate contributor in an area of greatest need--pass rush. And who says Quinn is guaranteed to be a franchise QB rather than a Kerry Collins or a Ryan Leaf? Tis was a no brainer!!
 
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