Guitar Frets: Feds Raid Gibson...

[trickblue]

Federal agents swooped in on Gibson Guitar Wednesday, raiding factories and offices in Memphis and Nashville, seizing several pallets of wood, electronic files and guitars. The Feds are keeping mum, but in a statement yesterday Gibson's chairman and CEO, Henry Juszkiewicz, defended his company's manufacturing policies, accusing the Justice Department of bullying the company. "The wood the government seized Wednesday is from a Forest Stewardship Council certified supplier," he said, suggesting the Feds are using the aggressive enforcement of overly broad laws to make the company cry uncle.

It isn't the first time that agents of the Fish and Wildlife Service have come knocking at the storied maker of such iconic instruments as the Les Paul electric guitar, the J-160E acoustic-electric John Lennon played, and essential jazz-boxes such as Charlie Christian's ES-150. In 2009 the Feds seized several guitars and pallets of wood from a Gibson factory, and both sides have been wrangling over the goods in a case with the delightful name "United States of America v. Ebony Wood in Various Forms."

The question in the first raid seemed to be whether Gibson had been buying illegally harvested hardwoods from protected forests, such as the Madagascar ebony that makes for such lovely fretboards. And if Gibson did knowingly import illegally harvested ebony from Madagascar, that wouldn't be a negligible offense. Peter Lowry, ebony and rosewood expert at the Missouri Botanical Garden, calls the Madagascar wood trade the "equivalent of Africa's blood diamonds." But with the new raid, the government seems to be questioning whether some wood sourced from India met every regulatory jot and tittle.

It isn't just Gibson that is sweating. Musicians who play vintage guitars and other instruments made of environmentally protected materials are worried the authorities may be coming for them next.

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/WK-AY969_FELDEN_G_20110825173428.jpg

Agents from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service pore through the workshop at the Gibson Guitar factory on Wednesday morning.

More...​

 

[burmafrd]

Federal agents swooped in on Gibson Guitar Wednesday, raiding factories and offices in Memphis and Nashville, seizing several pallets of wood, electronic files and guitars. The Feds are keeping mum, but in a statement yesterday Gibson's chairman and CEO, Henry Juszkiewicz, defended his company's manufacturing policies, accusing the Justice Department of bullying the company. "The wood the government seized Wednesday is from a Forest Stewardship Council certified supplier," he said, suggesting the Feds are using the aggressive enforcement of overly broad laws to make the company cry uncle.

It isn't the first time that agents of the Fish and Wildlife Service have come knocking at the storied maker of such iconic instruments as the Les Paul electric guitar, the J-160E acoustic-electric John Lennon played, and essential jazz-boxes such as Charlie Christian's ES-150. In 2009 the Feds seized several guitars and pallets of wood from a Gibson factory, and both sides have been wrangling over the goods in a case with the delightful name "United States of America v. Ebony Wood in Various Forms."

The question in the first raid seemed to be whether Gibson had been buying illegally harvested hardwoods from protected forests, such as the Madagascar ebony that makes for such lovely fretboards. And if Gibson did knowingly import illegally harvested ebony from Madagascar, that wouldn't be a negligible offense. Peter Lowry, ebony and rosewood expert at the Missouri Botanical Garden, calls the Madagascar wood trade the "equivalent of Africa's blood diamonds." But with the new raid, the government seems to be questioning whether some wood sourced from India met every regulatory jot and tittle.

It isn't just Gibson that is sweating. Musicians who play vintage guitars and other instruments made of environmentally protected materials are worried the authorities may be coming for them next.

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/WK-AY969_FELDEN_G_20110825173428.jpg

Agents from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service pore through the workshop at the Gibson Guitar factory on Wednesday morning.

More...​

How much money and resources are WASTED on BS like this?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

How much money and resources are WASTED on BS like this?

You are still being paid...So not enough. :

 

[YosemiteSam]

Ebony and Rosewood are great woods for guitars, but the issues involved concerning these are serious.

Stuff like this hasn't just happen to guitar makers. I know some Chess set makers have gotten in trouble too. (though most are in India and Germany)

 

[YosemiteSam]

How much money and resources are WASTED on BS like this?

It's not bs. There is more to the story (Rosewood and Ebony) than what you just read. (not talking about Gibson specifically) They say blood diamonds which is a bit over the top, I would say closer to Elephant Ivory than blood diamonds.

 

[vta]

It's not bs. There is more to the story (Rosewood and Ebony) than what you just read. (not talking about Gibson specifically) They say blood diamonds which is a bit over the top, I would say closer to Elephant Ivory than blood diamonds.

That may be, but I think they can manage something better than to raid a company, like some guerilla force. Its an American company, functioning under American laws and if not they can be investigated better than this. No need to play commando on them.

 

[burmafrd]

That may be, but I think they can manage something better than to raid a company, like some guerilla force. Its an American company, functioning under American laws and if not they can be investigated better than this. No need to play commando on them.

exactly. This was a PR move by the PC crowd.

 

[vta]

exactly. This was a PR move by the PC crowd.

It should serve as a wake up call for the rest of us.

 

[MonsterD]

No actually this is BS

" Musicians who play vintage guitars and other instruments made of environmentally protected materials are worried the authorities may be coming for them next."

That is just someone trying to fear monger crap up.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

How much money and resources are WASTED on BS like this?

To them it's an environmental issue. The high end guitars are made of wood, sometimes as old as 150 years. I'm a guitar enthusiast, so I have several guitars. One in particular is made from Mahogany; that's my favorite sounding wood. I paid a pretty penny for that wood and I compared it to the high-end Les Paul, too.

It was just my personal preference. But I'm in love with the sound.

That said, even PRS is trying to make their manufacturing more environmentally friendly.

I assume the feds started with Gibson, because they are sort of in trouble and don't need this kind of publicity now. As an effect, the lower-end guitar makers are still going to be trying to find ways around it so they don't get raided by the feds. Some companies, like Schecter, have already began compromising quality for quantity.

In any case, I see both ends. The good news is technology can recreate almost any sound and I think the future of guitars probably lies with modeling them...such as the line 6 variax etc. (Which I can't wait to get my hands on.)

Interesting thread though.

 

[YosemiteSam]

No actually this is BS

" Musicians who play vintage guitars and other instruments made of environmentally protected materials are worried the authorities may be coming for them next."

That is just someone trying to fear monger crap up.

THAT, definitely is.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

No actually this is BS

" Musicians who play vintage guitars and other instruments made of environmentally protected materials are worried the authorities may be coming for them next."

That is just someone trying to fear monger crap up.

Yeah, I'm not concerned they're coming for my rig. I actually see where they're coming from. It's a catch 22.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Here is some interesting insight on the topic.

http://www.mmrmagazine.com/860/arti...-of-guitar-making-the-present-and-the-future/

 

[vta]

Yeah, I'm not concerned they're coming for my rig. I actually see where they're coming from. It's a catch 22.

I can get behind their reasoning, but not their choice of tactic. If Gibson is suspected of doing something wrong, they're under obligation to cooperate with law enforcement and I doubt that it would be very hard to obtain their cooperation.

I can't talk too boldly on the legality of the action, but swooping down on people or companies is pretty combative and uncivil. I don't recommend anyone defend that sort of behavior for a society that wants justice and fair play in it's legal system.

Gibson isn't being accused of trading bombs or human slaves, this is unnecessary.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I can get behind their reasoning, but not their choice of tactic. If Gibson is suspected of doing something wrong, they're under obligation to cooperate with law enforcement and I doubt that it would be very hard to obtain their cooperation.

I can't talk too boldly on the legality of the action, but swooping down on people or companies is pretty combative and uncivil. I don't recommend anyone defend that sort of behavior for a society that wants justice and fair play in it's legal system.

Gibson isn't being accused of trading bombs or human slaves, this is unnecessary.

Agreed.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I can get behind their reasoning, but not their choice of tactic. If Gibson is suspected of doing something wrong, they're under obligation to cooperate with law enforcement and I doubt that it would be very hard to obtain their cooperation.

I can't talk too boldly on the legality of the action, but swooping down on people or companies is pretty combative and uncivil. I don't recommend anyone defend that sort of behavior for a society that wants justice and fair play in it's legal system.

Gibson isn't being accused of trading bombs or human slaves, this is unnecessary.

We don't exactly know the facts behind how it went down. Maybe Gibson was denying it and they knew they had illegally obtained product. You can't exactly tell them you will be by next week to pick it up and makes arrests. We both know it doesn't work like that.

It specifically said "the feds are keeping mum". That tells me they weren't just trying to make a splash. You are hearing this from the media.

Either way, we don't know the full facts of how this went down so any statements for or against should be tempered. If Gibson was knowingly breaking laws/rules, then they fully deserve to get taken down. If the governmental agency was just trying to grandstand, then they should be backhanded instead. (or both)

 

[vta]

We don't exactly know the facts behind how it went down. Maybe Gibson was denying it and they knew they had illegally obtained product. You can't exactly tell them you will be by next week to pick it up and makes arrests. We both know it doesn't work like that.

It specifically said "the feds are keeping mum". That tells me they weren't just trying to make a splash. You are hearing this from the media.

Either way, we don't know the full facts of how this went down so any statements for or against should be tempered. If Gibson was knowingly breaking laws/rules, then they fully deserve to get taken down. If the governmental agency was just trying to grandstand, then they should be backhanded instead. (or both)

Time will tell, if don't they keep mum too long.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Time will tell, if don't they keep mum too long.

Both my Ibanez and my Les Paul both have Rosewood fret boards. :laugh2:

 

[vta]

Both my Ibanez and my Les Paul both have Rosewood fret boards. :laugh2:

I'm tellin' on you.

I wonder what my Ibanez and BC Rich have on them??

 

[YosemiteSam]

I'm tellin' on you.

I wonder what my Ibanez and BC Rich have on them??

The funny thing is, my old Fender had pure maple fretboard and I loved it. I really wanted this Prestige, but it Ibanez didn't offer a maple fretboard on this model.

Les Paul's with a maple fretboard are very rare. (at least I've never see one in a store)