Hall of Fame numbers

[fanfromvirginia]

Swann won 4 SBs and played great on the big stage. Didn't he win the MVP the first time they beat the Cowboys? He deserves the HOF.

Remember the NFL didnt have the passing or receiving stats back then that they do now. There was so much more physicality. The players werent overall as fast. There wasn't astroturf or dome stadiums.

With that being said....these Cowboys players should be in the HOF, as well....Hayes just got in

OL John Niland
OL Ralph Neely
WR Drew Pearson
DE Harvey Martin
DE Ed Jones
LB Chuck Howley
DB Cornell Green
DB Cliff Harris
DB Charlie Waters
DB Everson Walls

As far as the JJ cast.........and some of them are not eligible yet

OL Larry Allen - duh
RB Emmitt Smith - duh
TE Jay Novacek - best TE of the 90s
FB Moose Johnston - best FB of the 90s
DE Charles Haley - over 100 sacks, 5 SB rings
DB Deion Sanders - duh
DB Darren Woodson

two players that ruined potential HOF careers.....Erik Williams and Leon Lett.

You're too generous. The Hall of Fame would simply too large if you let everyone of this level in.

Swann didn't deserve it. The 4 Superbowls are a big plus but his numbers were far lower than his contemporaries who made it in, such as Biletnikof (sp?), Charlie Taylor, Paul Warfield. His numbers are lower than Hayes and that was one of the main reasons people gave for screwing Hayes for so long. It's not just the numbers -- he didn't make All Pro that much, either.

As for the Cowboys, I would say no to Drew Pearson, Too Tall, Walls, probably Green and definitely Moose. 'Best fullback of the 90s' just ain't gonna do it.

 

[percyhoward]

Kinda surprised that Cris Carter got passed over again, but I'll let Viking and Eagle fans worry about that.

I see the logic in McDaniel getting in, and Carter not. I just can't believe the committee did something that made sense--two things that made sense--this year.

 

[Biggems]

You're too generous. The Hall of Fame would simply too large if you let everyone of this level in.

Swann didn't deserve it. The 4 Superbowls are a big plus but his numbers were far lower than his contemporaries who made it in, such as Biletnikof (sp?), Charlie Taylor, Paul Warfield. His numbers are lower than Hayes and that was one of the main reasons people gave for screwing Hayes for so long. It's not just the numbers -- he didn't make All Pro that much, either.

As for the Cowboys, I would say no to Drew Pearson, Too Tall, Walls, probably Green and definitely Moose. 'Best fullback of the 90s' just ain't gonna do it.

Well this is how I see it. If you dont get many post season opportunities.....you better darn well have some great regular season stats. you better put up gaudy numbers year after year.

if you do get post season opportunities, it is ok that your regular season stats are avg at best, if you step up and play great in the postseason. Swann did this. In the postseason, especially the SB, he was money.

 

[bbgun]

I see the logic in McDaniel getting in, and Carter not. I just can't believe the committee did something that made sense--two things that made sense--this year.

I'm sure Carter doesn't mind waiting if it means letting an old-timer in. Irvin would have been just as selfless with Hayes.

 

[percyhoward]

I had asked in another thread for someone to list all the Steelers and Dolphins in the HOF.

These are the HOF-eligible players who went to at least 5 Pro Bowls and have at least one SB ring (with that team), who are NOT in the hall.

Cowboys (10)
George Andrie DL
Cornell Green DB
Charles Haley DL
Cliff Harris S
Chuck Howley LB
Lee Roy Jordan LB
Nate Newton OL
John Niland OL
Jay Novacek TE
Mark Stepnoski OL

Dolphins (3)
Bob Kuechenberg OL
Jake Scott S
Bill Stanfill DL

Steelers (3)
L.C. Greenwood DL
Andy Russell LB
Donnie Shell DB

 

[fanfromvirginia]

Well this is how I see it. If you dont get many post season opportunities.....you better darn well have some great regular season stats. you better put up gaudy numbers year after year.

if you do get post season opportunities, it is ok that your regular season stats are avg at best, if you step up and play great in the postseason. Swann did this. In the postseason, especially the SB, he was money.

I gotcha. I'm all for skewing toward the post season. As were the voters, presumably.

I just don't think it quite makes up for his mediocre regular season stats. Drew Pearson's regular season stats were significantly better than Swann's and those (as well as some anti-Cowboy bias) are what is keeping him out. The guys in roughly the same era who got in (Largent, Warfield, Jiner, Biletnikoff, Alworth, Taylor, Stallworth, and Lofton) all had clearly (and generally way) better numbers.

 

[Biggems]

I gotcha. I'm all for skewing toward the post season. As were the voters, presumably.

I just don't think it quite makes up for his mediocre regular season stats. Drew Pearson's regular season stats were significantly better than Swann's and those (as well as some anti-Cowboy bias) are what is keeping him out. The guys in roughly the same era who got in (Largent, Warfield, Jiner, Biletnikoff, Alworth, Taylor, Stallworth, and Lofton) all had clearly (and generally way) better numbers.

Hey im with ya, Drew deserves the HOF. I believe he went to 2-3 SBs and won 1. He had very good numbers for that era, and that was even with his career being marred by that auto accident and the injuries that followed. I think it is so lame that he isn't in. Of course, Jerry isn't doing him any favors by basically blackballing him from the Ring of Honor. I wish Coach Landry and Tex would have put him in the ROH before they left the team.

 

[rangers71]

The fact that Cliff Harris isn't in is a crying *** shame. He was elected a member of the all decade team of the 70's. I believe that the only other player that was voted to this team that isn't in the hall is Ray Guy. It's dumb that he isn't in also. If that doesn't prove the Cowboy bias I don't know what does.

 

[theebs]

There is not really much you can do about it. Hopefully more will get in.

Everyone cant go to the hall.

It is what it is, rick reilly said aikman wasnt a hall of famer and the only reason he got in was because he played in Dallas. So its another battle each player has to fight.

I dont think I buy the east coast bias thing personally.

 

[Biggems]

The fact that Cliff Harris isn't in is a crying *** shame. He was elected a member of the all decade team of the 70's. I believe that the only other player that was voted to this team that isn't in the hall is Ray Guy. It's dumb that he isn't in also. If that doesn't prove the Cowboy bias I don't know what does.

I think omitting Ray Guy cause he was a punter is stupid. I understand punters dont get a lot of clout....but Ray Guy was the greatest punter of all time.....when you mention the word punter, everyone thinks of Ray Guy. He should be in the HOF.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

Hey im with ya, Drew deserves the HOF. I believe he went to 2-3 SBs and won 1. He had very good numbers for that era, and that was even with his career being marred by that auto accident and the injuries that followed. I think it is so lame that he isn't in. Of course, Jerry isn't doing him any favors by basically blackballing him from the Ring of Honor. I wish Coach Landry and Tex would have put him in the ROH before they left the team.

Actually, if it were up to me neither Swann nor Pearson would be in the HOF. I would certainly put Pearson in the ROH.

I just think they're both examples of really good players who don't quite belong in the Hall (be it football or any other sport.)

I think there are probably about 5 Cowboys who have been wrongfully kept out with Lee Roy Jordan, H. Martin, and C. Harris at or near the top of the list. But 5 is a lot given my Scrooge-like requirements on this.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

I think omitting Ray Guy cause he was a punter is stupid. I understand punters dont get a lot of clout....but Ray Guy was the greatest punter of all time.....when you mention the word punter, everyone thinks of Ray Guy. He should be in the HOF.

Agreed.

 

[Biggems]

These are the HOF-eligible players who went to at least 5 Pro Bowls and have at least one SB ring (with that team), who are NOT in the hall.

Cowboys (10)
George Andrie DL
Cornell Green DB
Charles Haley DL
Cliff Harris S
Chuck Howley LB
Lee Roy Jordan LB
Nate Newton OL
John Niland OL
Jay Novacek TE
Mark Stepnoski OL

Dolphins (3)
Bob Kuechenberg OL
Jake Scott S
Bill Stanfill DL

Steelers (3)
L.C. Greenwood DL
Andy Russell LB
Donnie Shell DB

Do you have ALL Pro numbers for those players? That is a better gauge of their status, although back then, the Pro Bowl wasn't the popularity contest that it is now.

 

[Biggems]

These are the HOF-eligible players who went to at least 5 Pro Bowls and have at least one SB ring (with that team), who are NOT in the hall.

Cowboys (10)
George Andrie DL
Cornell Green DB
Charles Haley DL
Cliff Harris S
Chuck Howley LB
Lee Roy Jordan LB
Nate Newton OL
John Niland OL
Jay Novacek TE
Mark Stepnoski OL

Dolphins (3)
Bob Kuechenberg OL
Jake Scott S
Bill Stanfill DL

Steelers (3)
L.C. Greenwood DL
Andy Russell LB
Donnie Shell DB

BTW, you left off the best Cowboys OL not in the HOF....Ralph Neely

 

[Established1971]

I had asked in another thread for someone to list all the Steelers and Dolphins in the HOF. I found an interesting website and somethings were real eye openers.

Website: http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/teams.jsp

The Cowboys have 10 players/coaches/front office that were primarily Cowboys in the HOF: Staubach, Aikman, Dorsett, Irvin, Lilly, R White, R Wright, T Schramm and Tom Landry

You dont have Mel Renfro

 

[rangers71]

Agreed.

Agreed.

 

[MWILL]

I am afraid this will be the last of the Cowboy greats to get in. I feel Howley, Harris and Martin should be in as well but I think this will be the last one that we see for a very long time.

I hope not.

It's great to see "Bullet" get in.

It feels even better to see Cris Carter left out.

 

[Established1971]

I am afraid this will be the last of the Cowboy greats to get in. I feel Howley, Harris and Martin should be in as well but I think this will be the last one that we see for a very long time.

Well Larry Allen and Emmitt are coming up, and we have a couple of halfsies too in Deion and Haley as well

I always thought Erik Williams should at least get a little more discussion.
And Darren Woodson too, though we wont see either in.

 

[Established1971]

Teams near the Northeast/East Coast:

Bears- 26
Browns- 16
Lions- 13
Packers- 21
Giants- 18
Steelers- 17
Commanders- 17

Teams NOT near the Northeast/East Coast:

Cardinals- 11
Cowboys- 10
Raiders- 13
Niners- 12
Rams- 13

But of course there is no northeast/east coast bias in pro sports .. *rollseyes*

-Reality

sorry but this is a silly post as the northeast teams have been around alot longer.

 

[Biggems]

We need more OL in the ROH.

John Niland, Ralph Neely, Pat Donovan, Herbert Scott, and Blayne Nye all had great careers for Dallas and all made numerous All-Pro teams. I know we don't want to water down the ROH, but you can't ignore guys who were year in and year out among the best of the best at their position.