Harvey Martin's team record for sacks

[AdamJT13]

I was looking at some old Cowboys stuff today and noticed that for many years, and as late as 2001, Harvey Martin's team record for sacks was listed as 20 (set in 1977). In either 2002 or 2003, it was changed to 23. However, his career sack total remained the same.

Does anyone know what happened, why his 1977 sack total was changed (or corrected) and why his career total did not?

 

[masomenos]

Adam, really?

This is the type of question that we ask you. Don't go flipping the roles on us.



Of course, I have no idea.

 

[AdamJT13]

Adam, really?

This is the type of question that we ask you. Don't go flipping the roles on us.



Of course, I have no idea.

I just thought someone might know, before I go through the trouble of trying to find out.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

you're on your own pal

 

[TNCowboy]

I just thought someone might know, before I go through the trouble of trying to find out.

No idea, but I have a Cowboys Season trading card from 1977, and it says Harvey Martin - 23 sacks.

 

[dbair1967]

I was looking at some old Cowboys stuff today and noticed that for many years, and as late as 2001, Harvey Martin's team record for sacks was listed as 20 (set in 1977). In either 2002 or 2003, it was changed to 23. However, his career sack total remained the same.

Does anyone know what happened, why his 1977 sack total was changed (or corrected) and why his career total did not?

It's always been 23 as far as I know, I have a Topps (think its Topps) card of Martin from 1978 which shows 23 sacks for the 77 season. I also have some sort of league leaders card which shows him with 23 I believe. I'll dig them up and look at what they say.

And those who played with him say 23 was several sacks short of what he really had.

 

[bbgun]

No idea, but I have a Cowboys Season trading card from 1977, and it says Harvey Martin - 23 sacks.

Does the card actually say "sacks"? I think they called them "traps" back then.

 

[Venger]

How can that be? NFL single season record is 22.5...

 

[CF74]

How can that be? NFL single season record is 22.5...

They didn't keep sack records back then.

 

[Hostile]

I was looking at some old Cowboys stuff today and noticed that for many years, and as late as 2001, Harvey Martin's team record for sacks was listed as 20 (set in 1977). In either 2002 or 2003, it was changed to 23. However, his career sack total remained the same.

Does anyone know what happened, why his 1977 sack total was changed (or corrected) and why his career total did not?

I've always seen the number as 23 Adam.

 

[bbgun]

Are we talking about the Cowboys or what the NFL has listed?

 

[TNCowboy]

Does the card actually say "sacks"? I think they called them "traps" back then.

It says sacks, I think. I haven't looked for it in years.

If I remember right, it has Tony D. with his 1,007 yards rushing, and 2 other players, with the card split into 4 sections. I want to think one of the other 2 is Cliff Harris for the most interceptions.

 

[Hostile]

Are we talking about the Cowboys or what the NFL has listed?

It would be Cowboys. The NFL did not recognize sacks as a stat until after the 1977 season. In Super Bowl XII though they mention Harvey having an amazing 23 sacks that year. It was 14 games too.

 

[bbgun]

It would be Cowboys. The NFL did not recognize sacks as a stat until after the 1977 season. In Super Bowl XII though they mention Harvey having an amazing 23 sacks that year. It was 14 games too.

Doesn't NFL Films take film of every play of every game? If so, which one of you will volunteer to sit in a darkroom all week and watch every play of the '77 season?

 

[Hostile]

Doesn't NFL Films take film of every play of every game? If so, which one of you will volunteer to sit in a darkroom all week and watch every play of the '77 season?

Deacon Jones has asked for years that this be done and true sack records be acknowledged. As far as I know the NFL has no intention of going back in time to right wrongs.

 

[dbair1967]

Deacon Jones has asked for years that this be done and true sack records be acknowledged. As far as I know the NFL has no intention of going back in time to right wrongs.

I know, he claims he probably had a season or two with 30 sacks each.

 

[AdamJT13]

I've always seen the number as 23 Adam.

If you have a Cowboys media guide from before 2002, look under the team record for sacks. And when he died, all of the obits said he had 20 sacks in 1977.


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...ce/Times Topics/Subjects/D/Deaths (Obituaries)

"Martin, who played 11 seasons in the National Football League, all with the Cowboys, was a premier pass-rushing end. He holds team records for career sacks, with 113, and single-season sacks, with 20, achieved in 1977, when he was the N.F.L. defensive player of the year. A speedy 6 feet 5 inches and 250 pounds, Martin led the Cowboys in sacks seven times. He was named to the Pro Bowl from 1976 through 1979."​

http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/ce/multi/0,1329,4745296_59,00.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/dec/26/sports/sp-18131

Martin was among the Cowboys’ most popular players in the 1970s and early 1980s, setting team records with 114 career sacks and 20 in a season, 1977. That season he was Associated Press’ NFL defensive player of the year.​

 

[RainMan]

Obviously, I can't answer your question, Adam. So instead of answering it, I'll provide you with a different question.

When Ware hit the 15.5-16 sack mark, ESPN reported he broke the previous team record of 15. Any idea why 15 was being reported as the team record in that instance?

 

[dbair1967]

Obviously, I can't answer your question, Adam. So instead of answering it, I'll provide you with a different question.

When Ware hit the 15.5-16 sack mark, ESPN reported he broke the previous team record of 15. Any idea why 15 was being reported as the team record in that instance?

Because sacks werent official before the 1982 season.

Before then, Randy White and Martin also had 16 sack seasons (same yr too, 1978) in addition to Martin's 23 sack season.

 

[dbair1967]

If you have a Cowboys media guide from before 2002, look under the team record for sacks. And when he died, all of the obits said he had 20 sacks in 1977.


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...ce/Times Topics/Subjects/D/Deaths (Obituaries)

"Martin, who played 11 seasons in the National Football League, all with the Cowboys, was a premier pass-rushing end. He holds team records for career sacks, with 113, and single-season sacks, with 20, achieved in 1977, when he was the N.F.L. defensive player of the year. A speedy 6 feet 5 inches and 250 pounds, Martin led the Cowboys in sacks seven times. He was named to the Pro Bowl from 1976 through 1979."​

http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/ce/multi/0,1329,4745296_59,00.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/dec/26/sports/sp-18131

Martin was among the Cowboys’ most popular players in the 1970s and early 1980s, setting team records with 114 career sacks and 20 in a season, 1977. That season he was Associated Press’ NFL defensive player of the year.​

I remember seeing that and wondering why they changed the number, but I have several pieces of info that says back then it was 23.