Harvey Martin's team record for sacks

[RainMan]

Because sacks werent official before the 1982 season.

Before then, Randy White and Martin also had 16 sack seasons (same yr too, 1978) in addition to Martin's 23 sack season.

Is it OK, then, for the Cowboys to officially recognize Martin and Ware as co-single-season-sack leaders, while an outside affiliate only to recognize Ware's mark since Martin's was unofficial? Because, based on the media guide things above, it does seem that the team recognizes Martin's mark, right?

 

[RainMan]

I remember seeing that and wondering why they changed the number, but I have several pieces of info that says back then it was 23.

Classic case of finagling with numbers and hoping no one notices.

Years from now, long after Romo has retired, a playoff win will be slipped into his bio so it will read, "Romo, who went 1-4 in the playoffs..."

 

[dbair1967]

Classic case of finagling with numbers and hoping no one notices.

Years from now, long after Romo has retired, a playoff win will be slipped into his bio so it will read, "Romo, who went 1-4 in the playoffs..."

:laugh2:

 

[Hostile]

If you have a Cowboys media guide from before 2002, look under the team record for sacks. And when he died, all of the obits said he had 20 sacks in 1977.


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E2DF1031F934A15751C1A9679C8B63&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/D/Deaths%20(Obituaries)

"Martin, who played 11 seasons in the National Football League, all with the Cowboys, was a premier pass-rushing end. He holds team records for career sacks, with 113, and single-season sacks, with 20, achieved in 1977, when he was the N.F.L. defensive player of the year. A speedy 6 feet 5 inches and 250 pounds, Martin led the Cowboys in sacks seven times. He was named to the Pro Bowl from 1976 through 1979."​

http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/ce/multi/0,1329,4745296_59,00.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/dec/26/sports/sp-18131

Martin was among the Cowboys’ most popular players in the 1970s and early 1980s, setting team records with 114 career sacks and 20 in a season, 1977. That season he was Associated Press’ NFL defensive player of the year.​

I don't have that Guide. Thanks. I'm not sure why the number is different. It leads me to think what I always have. Prior to sacks being an Official stat there are a lot of legendary stats that probably can't be backed up.

 

[burmafrd]

Sad thing is that we certainly have game film from back then- how tough would it be for Jerruh to have someone go through it and make the case?

I have heard comments that in the late 60's Bob Lilly got over 20 in either 68 or 69.

 

[jem88]

Randy White. Too Tall Jones. Harvey Martin. All on the same line. How mouth-watering is that?

 

[AdamJT13]

I remember seeing that and wondering why they changed the number, but I have several pieces of info that says back then it was 23.

I don't doubt that something back then said he had 23. That's why I'm wondering why the team said he had 20 until 2002 or 2003. Did it get accidentally changed to 20 at some point in the 1980s, and nobody noticed until a few years after he died? Or was there some dispute about how many sacks he had that season? And how did his 1977 total change without his career total changing?

 

[THUMPER]

Sad thing is that we certainly have game film from back then- how tough would it be for Jerruh to have someone go through it and make the case?

I have heard comments that in the late 60's Bob Lilly got over 20 in either 68 or 69.

We recorded 60 sacks as a team in 1966 but I have no idea of who had how many. I remember Lilly, Andrie, Pugh, & Townes getting a lot of sacks but I have never been able to find out how many each had that season.

BTW, that was in 14 games making it an average of over 4 per game!

 

[THUMPER]

I don't doubt that something back then said he had 23. That's why I'm wondering why the team said he had 20 until 2002 or 2003. Did it get accidentally changed to 20 at some point in the 1980s, and nobody noticed until a few years after he died? Or was there some dispute about how many sacks he had that season? And how did his 1977 total change without his career total changing?

Harvey Banks Martin, that's a pretty cool middle name.

 

[Rack]

I was looking at some old Cowboys stuff today and noticed that for many years, and as late as 2001, Harvey Martin's team record for sacks was listed as 20 (set in 1977). In either 2002 or 2003, it was changed to 23. However, his career sack total remained the same.

Does anyone know what happened, why his 1977 sack total was changed (or corrected) and why his career total did not?

All I know is some ****** kept changing the 1977 total to 20 on his wikipedia page, and I kept changing it back to 23 (where it should be).

I must have changed it back to 23 like 30 times. Last I checked it was still at 23 though.


Completely useless information for you but I figured I'd throw it out there.

 

[joseephuss]

The 20 probably was a typo that went overlooked for years. Martins career sack total was probably based on having 23 sacks that one season, so when they finally corrected the 20 it would not change the overall total.

This site has some of Martins cards. I can't see any mention of 23 sacks, but I did see both "traps" and "sacks" mentioned on the cards.

http://www.cowboycards.com/playersChecklist.asp?SN=HM79

 

[Cajuncowboy]

1978 Topps Team Leader card...23 sacks

 

[Chief]

Classic case of finagling with numbers and hoping no one notices.

Years from now, long after Romo has retired, a playoff win will be slipped into his bio so it will read, "Romo, who went 1-4 in the playoffs..."

:laugh2:

 

[Longboysfan]

Deacon Jones has asked for years that this be done and true sack records be acknowledged. As far as I know the NFL has no intention of going back in time to right wrongs.

They would have to rework the entire stat book if you started in this direction.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I just thought someone might know, before I go through the trouble of trying to find out.

LatinMind said it was because he was mexican.