Help me find article about Shanahan not being great coach

[Wimbo]

I read an article on this site pointing out the Shanahan's coaching tenure has not been all roses. Anyone have a link to that story? Thanks.

 

[BnGFever]

I read an article on this site pointing out the Shanahan's coaching tenure has not been all roses. Anyone have a link to that story? Thanks.

If he's such a crap coach, you should find a multitude of articles stating the same thing. Kind of like how I do a 5 second google search and come up with plenty of like articles regarding Phillips.

 

[urface59]

If he's such a crap coach, you should find a multitude of articles stating the same thing. Kind of like how I do a 5 second google search and come up with plenty of like articles regarding Phillips.

Skins for SB!

 

[BnGFever]

Skins for SB!

Nope, not for at least 2 years. However, I'd take Shanahan as coach over Wade "gimme some donuts, nom nom" Phillips, any day.

 

[silverbear]

Nope, not for at least 2 years. However, I'd take Shanahan as coach over Wade "gimme some donuts, nom nom" Phillips, any day.

Good, 'cause you're stuck with him...

I also have to note that Danny Boy once hired a coach with an even better record, and that celebrated coach lasted one season in DC... does the name Marty Schottenheimer ring any bells??

If Marty couldn't make it working for Danny Boy, what makes you think Shanny will fare any better??

Last but not least, I guess you haven't seen where ol' "nom nom" lost 40 pounds this offseason... I'm guessing you're probably fatter than he is at the moment... and what exactly does a coach's weight have to do with his ability to coach??

All in all, this was some uncommonly weak crap... I hope you have better than this in your arsenal...

 

[silverbear]

If he's such a crap coach, you should find a multitude of articles stating the same thing. Kind of like how I do a 5 second google search and come up with plenty of like articles regarding Phillips.

I'm sure the articles that wimbo refers to talk about how Shanahan fared once he didn't have John Elway as his quarterback; it ain't pretty... his teams only made the playoffs 4 times in 9 years, and went 1-4 in those playoffs...

Wow, that's a LOT better than Wade has done in the playoffs... LOL...

I don't know how to break this to you, but Shanahan was 24-24 in his last 3 seasons as a head coach (and he had a better team than he has now), and he won't be finding any Elways out at Commanders Park these days... FWIW, ol' "nom nom" was 22-10 in 2007 and 2008, compared to Shanny's 15-17...

But you keep on telling yourself that your guy is a football genius, while ours is a putz... that's what you Skins fans do, tell yourselves that everything you have is better than anything we have... LOL...

I figure Shanny will get 2, maybe 3 years tops, and when the team still isn't much better than .500 in the ever-tough NFC East, Danny Boy will send him packing too... maybe it will be time for Gibbs v. 3.0...

 

[VACowboy]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=3801219&sportCat=nfl

You end a third straight blah season outside the playoffs, being outscored by 78 points -- and flatly lucky to be even 8-8. You gag away your good fortune and give up a division title with three straight losses. You lose at home to a team that has given up on the season (Buffalo), then get undressed in a do-or-die game against your biggest rival (San Diego) with a divisional title on the line.
Guess what? Those are fireable offenses. Even for a guy with Shanny's finger bling.
Truth is, the Shanahan Method was fraying and the franchise decaying at a time when it should be booming in its relatively new stadium. Backed by arguably the best owner and most loyal fan base in the NFL, the coach couldn't sustain the glory of the 1990s into the new millennium.
Since John Elway rode off into the Rocky Mountain sunset after a second consecutive Super Bowl title in early 1999, Denver has been utterly ordinary. It has won a single playoff game in the decade without No. 7 at quarterback.
The post-Elway Broncos have been a blur of fired defensive coordinators, failed free-agent acquisitions, boom-or-bust drafts, spotty special teams, late-season swoons and -- on those occasions when they did make the playoffs -- postseason pratfalls. Shanahan has continually churned the roster without changing the bottom line. The magic is long gone, and it will be up to someone else to recapture it.
Post-Elway, Shanahan seemed to believe he could plug any quarterback into his creative, aggressive offense and it would work at a championship level. He hand-picked Brian Griese for the role, and it didn't work. He hand-picked Jake Plummer for the role, and it didn't work. The current hand-picked quarterback is Jay Cutler -- and so far it hasn't worked.

 

[bigE79]

I'm sure the articles that wimbo refers to talk about how Shanahan fared once he didn't have John Elway as his quarterback; it ain't pretty... his teams only made the playoffs 4 times in 9 years, and went 1-4 in those playoffs...

Wow, that's a LOT better than Wade has done in the playoffs... LOL...

I don't know how to break this to you, but Shanahan was 24-24 in his last 3 seasons as a head coach (and he had a better team than he has now), and he won't be finding any Elways out at Commanders Park these days... FWIW, ol' "nom nom" was 22-10 in 2007 and 2008, compared to Shanny's 15-17...

But you keep on telling yourself that your guy is a football genius, while ours is a putz... that's what you Skins fans do, tell yourselves that everything you have is better than anything we have... LOL...

I figure Shanny will get 2, maybe 3 years tops, and when the team still isn't much better than .500 in the ever-tough NFC East, Danny Boy will send him packing too... maybe it will be time for Gibbs v. 3.0...

Wasn't gibbs the savior and saunders and williams the best cords that money could buy? and we all know how that turned out

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Nope, not for at least 2 years. However, I'd take Shanahan as coach over Wade "gimme some donuts, nom nom" Phillips, any day.

:laugh2::laugh1:
:laugh2::laugh1:
:laugh2::laugh1:
:laugh2::laugh1:
:laugh2::laugh1:x's infinity.

 

[theebs]

Wasn't gibbs the savior and saunders and williams the best cords that money could buy? and we all know how that turned out

Everything they are saying about shannahan they said about spurrier, gibbs, saunders and zorn.

Shannahan doesnt have near the success of gibbs but people are now acting like gibbs was completely brain dead and shannahan was hiding all the answers or something.

The most interesting thing i think is that they put all their eggs with shannahan in the mcnabb basket. They will never be bad enough with him to get into the top 5 picks and that means to me his time will be tied to mcnabbs success.

That is the big point to me. I have no doubt shannahan is a good coach and he has talent there, but its all on mcnabb. That seems like the kink in the armor to me because he couldnt win on a better team and there is no replacement in sight.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

Everything they are saying about shannahan they said about spurrier, gibbs, saunders and zorn.

Shannahan doesnt have near the success of gibbs but people are now acting like gibbs was completely brain dead and shannahan was hiding all the answers or something.

The most interesting thing i think is that they put all their eggs with shannahan in the mcnabb basket. They will never be bad enough with him to get into the top 5 picks and that means to me his time will be tied to mcnabbs success.

That is the big point to me. I have no doubt shannahan is a good coach and he has talent there, but its all on mcnabb. That seems like the kink in the armor to me because he couldnt win on a better team and there is no replacement in sight.

Its an interesting dynamic you bring up, however there are differences.

1) There aren't very many coaches in NFL history to have success like Gibbs did in the 1980s. No coach has won 3 Superbowls with 3 different QBs.

Only 3 other coaches have won 3 Superbowls or (Knoll (4), Walsh, Bellichick) and they all won them with the same superstar QB (Bradshaw, Montana, Brady)

What did Knoll do without Bradshaw? The Steelers were fairly mediocre throughout the 1980s into the mid 90s when Cowher got his program up and running.

We all saw what happened with Bellichik out in Cleveland, and he wasn't off to the best start in New England either until Bledsoe got injured (5-11 in year 1, .500 team in year 2)

Walsh only coached 9 years with one of the best QBs of all time, so its hard to judge him without Montana.

Point being, there isn't another coach in NFL history who had the unique success of Joe Gibbs (multiple SBs, multiple QBs, hell multiple RBs as well)


2) There were several issues with Gibbs 2.0, most notable of course him being out of the game for 12 years. While Joe Gibbs spent a decade running a nascar team and occasionally being on NBC for NFL games, for the most part he detached himself from the NFL. He wasn't visiting camps or watching film. He was focusing his efforts on different places and re-discovering the relationship he had with his sons, which he neglected during his time as HC in DC.

Gibbs saw that his late 80s offense no longer worked in 2004. He brought in Bill Musgrave in 2005 and things improved (the Commanders were scoring points in bunches in late 2005). However there were still issues, and something that nobody has been able to determine, whose move was it to bring in Al Saunders. Gibbs being far more grandfatherly in 2.0 allowed Vinny Cerrato to stay on and Dan Snyder to be involved. To say there was not tension between Gibbs and Saunders would be a lie.

The big point being that Gibbs could never quite get the offensive side of the ball to buy into one philosophy his entire time in 2.0. It is a testament to the man he is and to his leadership abilities that he was able to basically will the Commanders to playoff appearances in 2005 and 2007.

3) Which brings us to Shanahan. All accounts had him spending the year off studying the NFL. He set up an office. He visited the Patriots camp where he decided to go to the 3-4. He visited Urban Meyer down in Florida. He was watching film of all the games. He was talking to coaches around the NFL and setting up his future staff. And most importantly, he was out of the NFL for only a year.

Along with that, Shanahan didn't pull a Gibbs and do a whole "bringing the band back together." His son is one of the brighter young minds in the NFL and will call plays and be OC (something Gibbs lacked was young coaches on the offensive side of the ball. I actually think this is very important and often overlooked in the NFL).

There certainly were a few guys who came to join him (Burney on the d-line, and Bobby Turner at RBs) but he also brought in different guys like Keenan McArdell at WRs, and Chris Forester at o-line.

What is interesting is the team that has been constructed is a bunch of guys with a big chip on their shoulder. Shanahan for obvious reasons, he being fired at the end of 2008. McNabb and his disaster in December and the playoffs and being traded from Philly. Larry Johnson, Clinton Portis, there are plenty of guys with something to prove.

Will it work? Honestly, I have no idea. Things appear better then they were anytime this decade (with exception to the summer of 2004 before Gibbs' first season back) however it remains to be seen what happens.

There are plenty of holes, the team is old in too many places and Albert Haynesworth will be an issue all year. If McNabb flops that requires scrapping the plan and going super young and rebuilding.

Who knows. Whatever it is, I am optimistic.

 

[theebs]

Its an interesting dynamic you bring up, however there are differences.

1) There aren't very many coaches in NFL history to have success like Gibbs did in the 1980s. No coach has won 3 Superbowls with 3 different QBs.

Only 3 other coaches have won 3 Superbowls or (Knoll (4), Walsh, Bellichick) and they all won them with the same superstar QB (Bradshaw, Montana, Brady)

What did Knoll do without Bradshaw? The Steelers were fairly mediocre throughout the 1980s into the mid 90s when Cowher got his program up and running.

We all saw what happened with Bellichik out in Cleveland, and he wasn't off to the best start in New England either until Bledsoe got injured (5-11 in year 1, .500 team in year 2)

Walsh only coached 9 years with one of the best QBs of all time, so its hard to judge him without Montana.

Point being, there isn't another coach in NFL history who had the unique success of Joe Gibbs (multiple SBs, multiple QBs, hell multiple RBs as well)


2) There were several issues with Gibbs 2.0, most notable of course him being out of the game for 12 years. While Joe Gibbs spent a decade running a nascar team and occasionally being on NBC for NFL games, for the most part he detached himself from the NFL. He wasn't visiting camps or watching film. He was focusing his efforts on different places and re-discovering the relationship he had with his sons, which he neglected during his time as HC in DC.

Gibbs saw that his late 80s offense no longer worked in 2004. He brought in Bill Musgrave in 2005 and things improved (the Commanders were scoring points in bunches in late 2005). However there were still issues, and something that nobody has been able to determine, whose move was it to bring in Al Saunders. Gibbs being far more grandfatherly in 2.0 allowed Vinny Cerrato to stay on and Dan Snyder to be involved. To say there was not tension between Gibbs and Saunders would be a lie.

The big point being that Gibbs could never quite get the offensive side of the ball to buy into one philosophy his entire time in 2.0. It is a testament to the man he is and to his leadership abilities that he was able to basically will the Commanders to playoff appearances in 2005 and 2007.

3) Which brings us to Shanahan. All accounts had him spending the year off studying the NFL. He set up an office. He visited the Patriots camp where he decided to go to the 3-4. He visited Urban Meyer down in Florida. He was watching film of all the games. He was talking to coaches around the NFL and setting up his future staff. And most importantly, he was out of the NFL for only a year.

Along with that, Shanahan didn't pull a Gibbs and do a whole "bringing the band back together." His son is one of the brighter young minds in the NFL and will call plays and be OC (something Gibbs lacked was young coaches on the offensive side of the ball. I actually think this is very important and often overlooked in the NFL).

There certainly were a few guys who came to join him (Burney on the d-line, and Bobby Turner at RBs) but he also brought in different guys like Keenan McArdell at WRs, and Chris Forester at o-line.

What is interesting is the team that has been constructed is a bunch of guys with a big chip on their shoulder. Shanahan for obvious reasons, he being fired at the end of 2008. McNabb and his disaster in December and the playoffs and being traded from Philly. Larry Johnson, Clinton Portis, there are plenty of guys with something to prove.

Will it work? Honestly, I have no idea. Things appear better then they were anytime this decade (with exception to the summer of 2004 before Gibbs' first season back) however it remains to be seen what happens.

There are plenty of holes, the team is old in too many places and Albert Haynesworth will be an issue all year. If McNabb flops that requires scrapping the plan and going super young and rebuilding.

Who knows. Whatever it is, I am optimistic.

Good post man. You should be optimistic there is no question your team will be better.

My point was just that I think they have taken all this new found way of doing things and its a positive and then tied it all to mcnabb. Mcnabb is a lightning rod. If he plays well bruce allen will look great...if he struggles and the team is mediocore for the next couple of seasons, all of this change will be no different than before.

Parcells did all the scouting and contacting before he came to Dallas in the those couple of years from 00-02. He had a staff in place and then he had players around the league he wanted.

He wanted Jake delhomme and was convinced he had him till delhommes agent asked for more and I think either jerry or bill were insulted and sent him on his way.

But bill got most of the coaches he wanted sans mike pope who is never going to leave ny and dan henning who could not get out of his contract in carolina to come here. He brought in a ton of good free agents and had an amazing draft.

Is almost a good thing we didnt get tied to delhomme because the team wasnt ready to win yet. It is interesting how well delhomme played for henning in carolina though. Had that happened we would never had romo, we probably would have won a playoff game in 03 though.

either way, you can do everything right and change the atmosphere like shannahan is doing and bill did, but if you hitch your wagon to the wrong horse at qb it wont matter. That is why I find it interesting shannahan and allen are staking everything imo...on mcnabb.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

either way, you can do everything right and change the atmosphere like shannahan is doing and bill did, but if you hitch your wagon to the wrong horse at qb it wont matter. That is why I find it interesting shannahan and allen are staking everything imo...on mcnabb.

I 100 percent agree. It was part of the downfall of Gibbs 2.0. Mark Brunell only showed up for 1 season, 2005, and of course the Commanders made the playoffs that year.

The QB is everything in today's NFL. If McNabb performs the way Shanahan and Allen think he can, the team will be very competitive. I can't say Superbowl, but certainly a team always in the playoff mix.

If he falls apart like Brunell did, yea the team will struggle to be around .500

I do expect by the conclusion of the 2012 draft, the "QB of the future" will be on the roster. I do hope that Shanahan spends another high draft pick on the o-line and solidifies it before putting out a young QB in the next few years

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Everything they are saying about shannahan they said about spurrier, gibbs, saunders and zorn.

Shannahan doesnt have near the success of gibbs but people are now acting like gibbs was completely brain dead and shannahan was hiding all the answers or something.

The most interesting thing i think is that they put all their eggs with shannahan in the mcnabb basket. They will never be bad enough with him to get into the top 5 picks and that means to me his time will be tied to mcnabbs success.

That is the big point to me. I have no doubt shannahan is a good coach and he has talent there, but its all on mcnabb. That seems like the kink in the armor to me because he couldnt win on a better team and there is no replacement in sight.

It's the same song and dance every year for the Skins. Do enough to try to stay reasonably competitive.

But look what happened to that approach last year. Signed Albert Haynesworth to a mega-million deal. 4-12.

Yet Daniel Snyder still takes the same approach as he always does. Look, trades for McNabb this year.

They always make moves like they are one piece away from competing for a championship.

*******es!

 

[UnoDallas]

Six Reasons Why Mike Shanahan Won’t Be Able to Turn The Commanders Around

http://amog.com/sports/mike-shanahan-wont-turn-Commanders/

6. Is He Actually a Rebuilding Coach?
Shanahan has a very impressive NFL coaching resume. One that most coaches could only dream of. But, he had many of the pieces for success already in play when he took over from previous coaches.
When he landed the head coaching gig for the Raiders in 1988, he was replacing the legendary Tom Flores. Granted, Shanahan’s stint was brief in L.A. – his success there, however, never matched that of Flores, and that of his successor Art Shell, despite having a solid team.
When he went back to Denver, this time as a head coach, he essentially acquired the team from Dan Reeves and Wade Phillips. We all know how that eventually ended up.
So, does Shanahan actually have the ability to rebuild the Skins? Judging by what he had to work with before, I don’t think so. For me, he’s not a rebuilding coach like Bill Parcells or Marty Schottenheimer.

5. History Is Not on Shanahan’s Side
4. Can Players Adjust to Yet Another New Coach?

It doesn’t matter how great of a player you are, when you constantly have to change coaches, you’re going to struggle.
Once the Norv Turner regime ran it’s course in 2000, the Skins have had six different coaches. You read that correctly. Six different coaches in the last nine years.

• 2000: Terry Robiskie (3-1)
• 2001: Marty Schottenheimer (16-8)
• 2002-2003: Steve Spurrier (32-12)
• 2004-2007: Joe Gibbs (64-30)
• 2008-2009: Jim Zorn (32-12)

• 2010-Present: Mike Shanahan

With that kind of pattern, what makes anyone think that Shanny will be the exception?

3. Holes in the Offense
2. They’re in the NFC East
1. Daniel Snyder

I know that he says that he’s giving Shanahan complete control, but do any of us actually buy that?
I see these two butting heads and becoming bitter enemies, like Shanny and Al Davis.
Snyder is also known for snagging up older, and expensive, players instead of going after younger prospects. Not a very wise move when his team is in dire need of rebuilding.

​

<LI id=stumble_f>

 

[UnoDallas]

Plummer: Shanny firing "was past due"

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_11586720

Former QB's blunt views on the dismissal of his former head coach center on a style that "wasn't motivating."



TAMPA, Fla. — Not all of Mike Shanahan's former quarterbacks were disappointed to see him get fired as the Broncos' coach. "I thought it was past due," Jake Plummer said in a telephone interview Thursday. "I think he had done what he could do and was just tapped out as far as his coaching style wasn't motivating guys anymore."

It's hard on a team. We were 7-2 at one point my last year and we came out of a meeting with our heads bowed and we were all just sulking around like we had just been berated for not putting up 40 points, for not leading the league in offense, for not creating enough turnovers," Plummer said. "It was a weird style to be coached that way. It really took it out of you as a player. I've been on 2-7 teams that had better attitudes coming out of team meetings than oftentimes when we came out of team meetings after Shanahan felt a need to motivate us even more."


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[SkinsHokieFan]

Plummer: Shanny firing "was past due"

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_11586720

Former QB's blunt views on the dismissal of his former head coach center on a style that "wasn't motivating."



TAMPA, Fla. — Not all of Mike Shanahan's former quarterbacks were disappointed to see him get fired as the Broncos' coach. "I thought it was past due," Jake Plummer said in a telephone interview Thursday. "I think he had done what he could do and was just tapped out as far as his coaching style wasn't motivating guys anymore."

It's hard on a team. We were 7-2 at one point my last year and we came out of a meeting with our heads bowed and we were all just sulking around like we had just been berated for not putting up 40 points, for not leading the league in offense, for not creating enough turnovers," Plummer said. "It was a weird style to be coached that way. It really took it out of you as a player. I've been on 2-7 teams that had better attitudes coming out of team meetings than oftentimes when we came out of team meetings after Shanahan felt a need to motivate us even more."


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From that same article

To be fair to Shanahan, others of his former players did not feel that way. Cutler was upset when Broncos owner Pat Bowlen fired Shana-han two days after the 2008 season, and he said so publicly. And Plummer admits his personal relationship with Shanahan began to deteriorate after the Broncos' home loss in the 2005 AFC championship game and was compounded by a miscommunication regarding an offseason workout. Plummer thought he had cleared missing a week of offseason conditioning with an assistant coach only to learn later Shanahan was not informed.
Soon after, the Broncos traded up in the first round to select Cutler with the No. 11 pick in the 2006 draft. From then on, Shanahan seemed to be looking for reasons to replace Plummer with the rocket-armed Cutler.
The Broncos were 40-18 with Plummer as their starting quarterback. While everyone acknowledges Cutler is a far more talented passer, he is only 17-20 as a starter.


Read more: Plummer: Shanny firing "was past due" - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_11586720#ixzz0xwDReetb

40-18 with Jake Freakin Plummer has his QB. Not bad at all

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I don't get why everyone thinks Shanny is such a crap coach just cause they didn't win without Elway. That only makes sense.

Can you name me another great coach, with a great QB, who did fantastic without that great QB?

How'd Landry do without Roger? How about Jimmy with out Troy?

I'm not saying Shanny is the best ever, far from it, but there are far worse coaches out there that they could have got. He'll help them get turned around to some degree. I don't know how far but he'll help them.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Nope, not for at least 2 years. However, I'd take Shanahan as coach over Wade "gimme some donuts, nom nom" Phillips, any day.

LOL!

That was a completely weak response.

If you're not going to at least attempt to bring merit to why you'd take him, instead of going with the sophmoric humor of making fun of a coaches weight, then stay on a Skins board.

Pathetic attempt at trying to be 'witty'.

 

[Paloffs is now]

I'm sure the articles that wimbo refers to talk about how Shanahan fared once he didn't have John Elway as his quarterback; it ain't pretty... his teams only made the playoffs 4 times in 9 years, and went 1-4 in those playoffs...

Wow, that's a LOT better than Wade has done in the playoffs... LOL...

Um...Making the Conference championship game is a lot better than Wade. 2 Super Bowls compared to ONE career playoff win. Good luck convincing yourself they're equals.

I don't know how to break this to you, but Shanahan was 24-24 in his last 3 seasons as a head coach (and he had a better team than he has now), and he won't be finding any Elways out at Commanders Park these days... FWIW, ol' "nom nom" was 22-10 in 2007 and 2008, compared to Shanny's 15-17...

And what are their overall records?
Shanahan: 146-98, 8-5 In playoffs
Phillips: 81-54, 1-5 In playoffs

But you keep on telling yourself that your guy is a football genius, while ours is a putz... that's what you Skins fans do, tell yourselves that everything you have is better than anything we have... LOL...

Kyle's offense led the league in passing last year, so yeah, I'd say he knows what he's doing.

I figure Shanny will get 2, maybe 3 years tops, and when the team still isn't much better than .500 in the ever-tough NFC East, Danny Boy will send him packing too... maybe it will be time for Gibbs v. 3.0...

After the Elder Shanny comes the Younger. We've got the next 10 Years covered. With coaches with proven records and rings to go with them.