Help me understand

[AsthmaField]

A 3-Technique, in an under shift. Which lined him up as a defacto nose tackle or 1 technique.

But you are correct that the true name is still a 3 technique. But, I wanted to assume that the people on this board where smart enough to understand, that a true 1 technique does not have a spot on a Monte Kiffen defense. And where just confused and where considering it a 1 technique, because that is where you actually saw him lined up most of the time.

Sapp lined up on the outside shoulder of the guard, it was the other DT that played in the C/G gap... that is the 1-tech.

 

[jterrell]

A 3-Technique, in an under shift. Which lined him up as a defacto nose tackle or 1 technique.

But you are correct that the true name is still a 3 technique. But, I wanted to assume that the people on this board where smart enough to understand, that a true 1 technique does not have a spot on a Monte Kiffen defense. And where just confused and where considering it a 1 technique, because that is where you actually saw him lined up most of the time.

A (zero technique) would mean a nose tackle aligned nose-to-nose with a center.
(1 technique) the defensive lineman is line up in the middle of the A gap.
(2 technique) defensive lineman is nose-to-nose with the offensive guard.
(3 technique) defensive lineman is line up in the middle of the B gap or outside shade of the guard. He is responsible for maintaining outside leverage and not letting himself get hook or reached blocked by the offense.
(4 technique) defensive lineman is line up nose-to-nose with the offensive tackle.
(5 technique) meant that the defensive lineman had his nose on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle.
(6 technique) was nose-to-nose with the offensive tight end.
(7 technique) meant the defensive lineman had his nose on the inside shoulder of the offensive tight end.
(8 technique) meant that the defensive lineman was aligned on air outside the outside shoulder of the offensive tight end.
(9 technique) meant that the defensive lineman has his nose on the outside shoulder of the offensive tight end.

 

[SMCowboy]

Kiffin's playbook clearly shows that he wants the D-Linemen to get upfield and wants to get after the QB.

Most people are confusing this with Zimmer's scheme and philosophy where Zimmer has said that they want to stop the run first and stop the run second...then go after the QB.

Sapp played the 3-tech. But, the guys opposite of him where not space eaters by any stretch. Guys like Booger McFarland had some 1-tech responsibilities, but they were mainly there to get upfield. The Lions do the same thing with Fairley and Suh.








YR

This is very true. And people need to keep this in mind. A prototypical 4-3 3 technique, usually is more of a run stuffer than a pass rusher. However in the Monte Kiffen style of defense the 3 technique's #1 responsibility is to get into the backfield and cause havoc.

 

[jterrell]

BTW, good post here OP.

I think it was unanimous that we wanted big players over small players but the board fell the way it fell.

We reached a bit in r1 and everyone screamed. We drafted to the board after that and everyone screamed.

Hard for me to fathom how anyone can not like the Frederick pick yet also not like the later picks. UNLESS you have a draft philosophy of draft BPA in r1 but reach after that to fill needs which seems rather a poor way to land NFL caliber players and like something Larry Lacewell authored.

You kinda have to like one model or the other, imho.

Dallas was going to reach period if they went big. I think that's both fair and fairly proven looking at the actual draft. In a draft that was soft at the top and long in the middle everyone went big when that was the option available for 80 cents on the dollar.

I do not believe the case for Frederick being there at 47 has been made or is even close to logical given the actual draft results.

I believe the draft results suggest we should spend a little money on big bodies in FA now. Grab a RT and maybe a back up spare part DL. The bodies do exist right now in free agency.

 

[jterrell]

This is very true. And people need to keep this in mind. A prototypical 4-3 3 technique, usually is more of a run stuffer than a pass rusher. However in the Monte Kiffen style of defense the 3 technique's #1 responsibility is to get into the backfield and cause havoc.

This is also what Ratliff did under Wade. 1 tech gap shooting player who made plays in the back field.

1 tech is rather defined as a gap shooter. Same as 3 tech.

0 and 4 are BP type guys.

 

[SMCowboy]

A (zero technique) would mean a nose tackle aligned nose-to-nose with a center.
(1 technique) the defensive lineman is line up in the middle of the A gap.
(2 technique) defensive lineman is nose-to-nose with the offensive guard.
(3 technique) defensive lineman is line up in the middle of the B gap or outside shade of the guard. He is responsible for maintaining outside leverage and not letting himself get hook or reached blocked by the offense.
(4 technique) defensive lineman is line up nose-to-nose with the offensive tackle.
(5 technique) meant that the defensive lineman had his nose on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle.
(6 technique) was nose-to-nose with the offensive tight end.
(7 technique) meant the defensive lineman had his nose on the inside shoulder of the offensive tight end.
(8 technique) meant that the defensive lineman was aligned on air outside the outside shoulder of the offensive tight end.
(9 technique) meant that the defensive lineman has his nose on the outside shoulder of the offensive tight end.

I know full well the different numbering schemes for the different gaps. But, the Tampa 2 has the under shift, that it is most famous for. Where one of the normal 3 techniques lined up cockied in the guard center gap. Making him for all intents and purposes a 1 technique.

I am sorry for being mistaken that it was Bogger McFarland, not Warren Sapp that lined up as the 1 technique in the under shift. For some reason I remembered it as Warren Sapp, but I was mistaken on that part of it.

 

[burmafrd]

Considering that the FA's on O line came from the dumpster; and the other pick on the O line two years ago was a small school player in the 4th, trying to claim that sufficient resources have been used on the O line is laughable.

Considering there are no signs Arkin is going to be anything; and for all of Jerruh's talk the same can be said for Leary.

When you add this teams AWFUL record of developing O line, its hilarious that anyone can even try to make the case that we do not need to do more on the O line.

 

[jterrell]

I know full well the different numbering schemes for the different gaps. But, the Tampa 2 has the under shift, that it is most famous for. Where one of the normal 3 techniques lined up cockied in the guard center gap. Making him for all intents and purposes a 1 technique.

I am sorry for being mistaken that it was Bogger McFarland, not Warren Sapp that lined up as the 1 technique in the under shift. For some reason I remembered it as Warren Sapp, but I was mistaken on that part of it.

I am sure Sapp played at least some 1T as well. He is considered the prototype 3T but you can bet he played closer to OC on occasion as match ups/health dictated.

Just didn't want to confuse the board on the numbering system.

BTW, I really thought Booger was gonna be special coming out of LSU. Can be hard to appreciate those big guys who don't rack up tons of sacks.

 

[jterrell]

Considering that the FA's on O line came from the dumpster; and the other pick on the O line two years ago was a small school player in the 4th, trying to claim that sufficient resources have been used on the O line is laughable.

Considering there are no signs Arkin is going to be anything; and for all of Jerruh's talk the same can be said for Leary.

When you add this teams AWFUL record of developing O line, its hilarious that anyone can even try to make the case that we do not need to do more on the O line.

ROFL. If there was worst post of the day this would win hands down.
It includes all the key components of a terrible post.

Inaccurate data:
Dallas OL ranked top 10 in overall cap cost before this free agent period.
Dallas has now used 2 r1 picks in 4 seasons along the OL. Something VERY few teams can claim. So 2 of the 5 starters will be R1 picks.

Overstatement to the point of hilarity:
The garbage dump FA include a long-time starter for a top 10 OL and a rotational guy on a top 5 OL.

Crying:
Arkin looks like a flat whiff. Guess what? That happens in round 4 on occasion. Not every guy meets your expectations and projections. Scouts loved him but he simply hasn't added size and strength as easily as they expected.
Ron Leary was an undrafted rookie. glad you have him so wonderfully pegged.

Dallas has been addressing their OL consistently and with aggression. They have cap limits and limits on total number of draft picks to throw at the group but it has been constantly overhauled season by season. So in fact there ISN'T a lot more they can do to address. It has been the top priority and received the most attention this past 4 seasons.

 

[Doc50]

Good discussion, guys.

How quickly we forget about picks from last year or the year before if they don't make a big splash. That doesn't mean that the coaches don't have big plans for them as they mature. It historically has taken linemen 2 or more years to develop into starters, but we want someone NOW, and therefore would prefer the 'boys overpay for FA's.

So, it seems that our 2 great assistants -- Kiffen & Callahan -- probably know what they're doing, and have evaluated existing assets to be better choices than those available to us in the draft.

Let's have some confidence in them, wait for other cuts across the league over the next 3 months, and see how this plays out.

We do need one more draft class, but i believe the 'boys are on the right track.

 

[TNCowboy]

You said it yourself...the results speak for themselves. Anyone who gives Jones the benefit of the doubt is foolish.

What do we hear from Schefter and other nfl insiders? Basically nothing but ridicule for drafting him in the 1st round. Made doubly bad by the awful trade Jones made to give SF the 18th pick. We would've been better off with the NE/Minn trade, and still could've got him at 54 or whatever NE wound up with.

8-8, 8-8, 6-10 the last 3 years speaks for itself. Nice to see he has his daughter involved in the draft process btw. What he and his family are doing to this franchise used to make me sick to my stomach. Now I can only look at it with amusement.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

You said it yourself...the results speak for themselves. Anyone who gives Jones the benefit of the doubt is foolish.

What do we hear from Schefter and other nfl insiders? Basically nothing but ridicule for drafting him in the 1st round. Made doubly bad by the awful trade Jones made to give SF the 18th pick. We would've been better off with the NE/Minn trade, and still could've got him at 54 or whatever NE wound up with.

8-8, 8-8, 6-10 the last 3 years speaks for itself. Nice to see he has his daughter involved in the draft process btw. What he and his family are doing to this franchise used to make me sick to my stomach. Now I can only look at it with amusement.

Hold on. I am on record stating my displeasure with the man. My only point is everyone screaming about us not using mid round picks on OL/DL. And I was just trying to say that using mid round picks on those cats will not do ANYTHING for the upcoming season. A first round pick is your best pick. It was used on an OL. What else do people want? Listen, I want all the mistakes of the past to go away. But they will not in one draft...and they will not go away reaching for a guy in the 3rd round that is NOT a NFL player (see Robert Brewster). So we got football players. And getting football players NEVER hurts. Getting guys that cannot EVER contribute(see Jacob Rogers) hurts!

 

[jobberone]

I have little reason to think we should have drafted D-Line. If we were to draft a D-Lineman, there position would be to hopefully take over the starting spot in 2-3 years.

Kiffin's scheme really doesn't call for a 1-technique and I am not a fan of drafting a 1-tech space eater high. But even still, the real 'money' position is at the 3-tech and I honestly think we have underrated just how good Jason Hatcher has been the past 2 years. Of course, it's from a different scheme, but I don't see why he cannot continue to dominate...or even be more dominant in this scheme. And I'll take my chances with Lissemore and Crawford playing the other spot (I think Lissemore could flourish here, given that it's more of a speed and explosiveness position rather than a hand technique and 'read and react' position).

I'm not nutty about having 2 rookies starting on the O-line. However, I am concerned about the right tackle play. Romo's best play comes when his RT play is on point (2006, 2007, 2009, 2011 and second half of 2012). He came on super strong towards the end of last year which coincided with us removing Free from the full-time RT spot and alternating him and Parnell in there.

I think Parnell has some real potential, but once again we try to see if we can 'get by' at this crucial spot instead of doing our best to make sure our ducks are in a row and at least make it more difficult to mess the situation up. And I think if we are relying on Escobar to help out with the blocking, then we are going to face the same struggles we have had on offense...the inability for the Y-Receiver to catch something underneath and punish the defense with YAC.

And we still have to worry about the safety position.







YR

The only thing about the Escobar pick I didn't like is he's not an accomplished blocker. No one has seen him attempt to block a NFL player so we'll see how well he does and probably how far he needs to develop. I don't think they are going to count on him to deliver much more than a chip now which I think he should be able to do. The problem is we have no true inline blocking TE on the roster and likely won't.

What I noticed last year was they have been putting another lineman out by Free then lining the TE beside that player in a big formation. That worked well last year although its not subtle and it certainly cuts out a receiver. Optimally you get a TE that receives and blocks well but that is not the norm esp if you are using a hybrid who is in effect a large WR not a TE.

To others I don't get the complaining about his speed or we didn't need another TE. First of all the guy is not really a TE and he is certainly not Witten's replacement. Witten is only 30 and just restructed his contract which now goes thru the end of the 2017 season when he'll be 34. So he'll likely see another career ending contract. I don't see the guy slowing down anytime soon.

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/2/28/4040146/jason-witten-contract-cowboys-salary-cap

The Dallas Cowboys continue to dig themselves out of their salary cap hole by agreeing to a restructured deal with tight end Jason Witten, according to Nick Eatman. The new deal will save the Cowboys approximately $3.65 million against the cap in 2013 according to Todd Archer. Witten is the second player to rework his deal with the Cowboys in as many days, with DeMarcus Ware restructuring his contract on Wednesday.

More: Blogging the Boys

The Cowboys were an estimated $20 million over the cap before they began to rework player contracts. Witten was due $5.5 million with an $8 million cap hit in 2013 before restructuring, which will save $3.65 million towards the cap. His contract carries through the end of the 2017 season.
===============================================

So I don't see Escobar or Hanna as being a near term replacement for Witten. I see Escobar as a hybrid and Hanna as more capable of a true TE but not prototypical. Escobar is fast enough to be a hybrid and he certainly has the skills to get open and catch the ball as well as be a RZ target. And Hanna is about as fast as they get for his position. He just needs to become a better route runner and receiver.

Finally name a WR in this draft who has hands and receiving ability truly significantly better than Escobar.

 

[jterrell]

You said it yourself...the results speak for themselves. Anyone who gives Jones the benefit of the doubt is foolish.

What do wJe hear from Schefter and other nfl insiders? Basically nothing but ridicule for drafting him in the 1st round. Made doubly bad by the awful trade Jones made to give SF the 18th pick. We would've been better off with the NE/Minn trade, and still could've got him at 54 or whatever NE wound up with.

8-8, 8-8, 6-10 the last 3 years speaks for itself. Nice to see he has his daughter involved in the draft process btw. What he and his family are doing to this franchise used to make me sick to my stomach. Now I can only look at it with amusement.

Jones has lead successful drafts recently. His big trades deserve flat out scorn but his recent drafts have been graded highly. Grading someone on drafts 4 years ago is just 'foolish'. Especially with all the evidence since then suggesting Jones is really quite average.

We haven't just heard scorn. We've heard people like Peter King and others state Frederick is gonna be a good fit and walk in starter so was a good pick. We saw what McGinn posted about Frederick form scouts where a few different ones absolutely LOVED him and thought he was a far better player than Barrett Jones.

As to trading down to 54 that's fairly ridiculous to assume. Other OL rated similar to Frederick were already picked over by then. Guys with 5th round ratings were going round 3. When 8 OL go by 31 that tends to happen.

Yea, 8-8 twice and 6-10 does peak for itself. That's a whopping 2 games below .500. Why my goodness let's tear it all down and just start over.

The 49ers win totals:
2003: 7
2004: 2
2005: 4
2006: 7
2007: 5
2008: 7
2009: 8
2010: 6

2011: 13
2012: 11

so after 2 years of success they are the model all of a sudden... ROFL.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

Considering that the FA's on O line came from the dumpster; and the other pick on the O line two years ago was a small school player in the 4th, trying to claim that sufficient resources have been used on the O line is laughable.

Considering there are no signs Arkin is going to be anything; and for all of Jerruh's talk the same can be said for Leary.

When you add this teams AWFUL record of developing O line, its hilarious that anyone can even try to make the case that we do not need to do more on the O line.

So our track record with OL is terrible...yet you wanted us to use MORE draft picks on OL? We used a 1st round pick....for the 2nd time in 3 years...on a OL. So we are TRYING. I am not happy with Jerry. Believe me. I think he has a sickness. ANyone that would rather lose doing it their way...then win doing it someone else's way has BIG BIG problems. And to be honest with you...I don't think we will win again with him at the controls. But I try not to let my mind go there...because it is a dismal place. Lucky for me I am getting older and have the responsibilites of parenthood to distract me from what was once an obssession: the Dallas Cowboys.

Only one team wins the Super Bowl every year. I just get tired of the hurdles in front of us being the SAME year in and year out. And having a competent OL that allows your skill position players to make plays would be good start. Look what this offense did in 2007. The OL was competent. And we could go toe to toe with the best. The results followed (13 -3 ) The OL has been down hill ever since...and so has this team. So any hole we plug on the OL will always put a smile on my face. I mean the guy was drafted 31! A LT from lower level football was just drafted #1 overall. And people would rather talk about how dumb it was to draft an OL from a program and conference that plays big time football in the trenches at #31? At a postion of NEED for us!?!?

 

[InmanRoshi]

People should really spend a fraction of the time watching Brian Price play 1 Tech in 2011 in a Tampa scheme rather than polluting the board with their 1,000,000,000th post about how much they hate Jerry Jones.

 

[john van brocklin]

I have little reason to think we should have drafted D-Line. If we were to draft a D-Lineman, there position would be to hopefully take over the starting spot in 2-3 years.

Kiffin's scheme really doesn't call for a 1-technique and I am not a fan of drafting a 1-tech space eater high. But even still, the real 'money' position is at the 3-tech and I honestly think we have underrated just how good Jason Hatcher has been the past 2 years. Of course, it's from a different scheme, but I don't see why he cannot continue to dominate...or even be more dominant in this scheme. And I'll take my chances with Lissemore and Crawford playing the other spot (I think Lissemore could flourish here, given that it's more of a speed and explosiveness position rather than a hand technique and 'read and react' position).

I'm not nutty about having 2 rookies starting on the O-line. However, I am concerned about the right tackle play. Romo's best play comes when his RT play is on point (2006, 2007, 2009, 2011 and second half of 2012). He came on super strong towards the end of last year which coincided with us removing Free from the full-time RT spot and alternating him and Parnell in there.

I think Parnell has some real potential, but once again we try to see if we can 'get by' at this crucial spot instead of doing our best to make sure our ducks are in a row and at least make it more difficult to mess the situation up. And I think if we are relying on Escobar to help out with the blocking, then we are going to face the same struggles we have had on offense...the inability for the Y-Receiver to catch something underneath and punish the defense with YAC.

And we still have to worry about the safety position.

It really is a question of talent.
We have very little in the O Line.
Now if we sign one or two Olinemen in free agency , I will feel better.
Right now, I am expecting the same results as last year.

Replacing one player (center) is not enough.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

 

[muck4doo]

Good thread.

 

[cowboysooner]

People should really spend a fraction of the time watching Brian Price play 1 Tech in 2011 in a Tampa scheme rather than polluting the board with their 1,000,000,000th post about how much they hate Jerry Jones.

If Price is healthy, he is a very good player.