Hey Lawyer types!!!

[Cajuncowboy]

In an effort to avoid paying an attorney to settle an argument, I hope some of the lawyers on here will weigh in.

Is it or is it not illegal to sell a knock off Korean/Chinese made jersey in a retail environment?

What if you don't specifically state it isn't a knock off?

EDIT: I should note that I said it was illegal to do so.

 

[bbgun]

I'm no attorney, but I'd guess that it's no different than trying to sell fake Gucci handbags or bogus Rolexes. In other words, a trademark violation.

 

[big dog cowboy]

In other words, a trademark violation.

:signmast:

Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[casmith07]

I'm no attorney, but I'd guess that it's no different than trying to sell fake Gucci handbags or bogus Rolexes. In other words, a trademark violation.

:signmast:

Makes perfect sense to me.

Best shot. But those kinds of cases are usually pursued by the state/feds since they involve copyright/trademark violations. Not typically an individual lawsuit to seek damages for yourself.

 

[Reality]

In an effort to avoid paying an attorney to settle an argument, I hope some of the lawyers on here will weigh in.

Is it or is it not illegal to sell a knock off Korean/Chinese made jersey in a retail environment?

What if you don't specifically state it isn't a knock off?

EDIT: I should note that I said it was illegal to do so.

I am not a lawyer but I can answer your question ..

It is not "illegal" to sell knock off merchandise as long as you market it as such. If you market it as the real thing, that is fraud and is definitely a crime.

Now notice I said "not illegal" .. I did not say it was okay to do so. In most cases though, the only way charges would be brought against the seller would be if the owner of the item trademark(s) or a buyer who feels ripped off files a complaint of fraud.

Unless the seller was making huge amounts of money, odds are good they would only be charged with misdemeanors which is why you can find them everywhere and even when they are shut down, they are soon back at it again in another location.

If you feel strongly that the seller should not be selling the merchandise, the best thing you can do is contact the owner of the trademark(s) and inform them of what you saw or encountered.

#reality

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I am not a lawyer but I can answer your question ..

It is not "illegal" to sell knock off merchandise as long as you market it as such. If you market it as the real thing, that is fraud and is definitely a crime.

Now notice I said "not illegal" .. I did not say it was okay to do so. In most cases though, the only way charges would be brought against the seller would be if the owner of the item trademark(s) or a buyer who feels ripped off files a complaint of fraud.

Unless the seller was making huge amounts of money, odds are good they would only be charged with misdemeanors which is why you can find them everywhere and even when they are shut down, they are soon back at it again in another location.

If you feel strongly that the seller should not be selling the merchandise, the best thing you can do is contact the owner of the trademark(s) and inform them of what you saw or encountered.

#reality

Good answer.

 

[bbgun]

I am not a lawyer but I can answer your question ..

It is not "illegal" to sell knock off merchandise as long as you market it as such. If you market it as the real thing, that is fraud and is definitely a crime.

Now notice I said "not illegal" .. I did not say it was okay to do so. In most cases though, the only way charges would be brought against the seller would be if the owner of the item trademark(s) or a buyer who feels ripped off files a complaint of fraud.

Unless the seller was making huge amounts of money, odds are good they would only be charged with misdemeanors which is why you can find them everywhere and even when they are shut down, they are soon back at it again in another location.

If you feel strongly that the seller should not be selling the merchandise, the best thing you can do is contact the owner of the trademark(s) and inform them of what you saw or encountered.

#reality

I don't think that's correct. Cops and movie studios will not be impressed by your "this is a bootleg video" disclaimer when you sell them on the street or online.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

It pains me but I agree with BB.

 

[bbgun]

It pains me but I agree with BB.

I too feel dirty. Think I'll take a shower.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I don't think that's correct. Cops and movie studios will not be impressed by your "this is a bootleg video" disclaimer when you sell them on the street or online.

I think what he is saying is the reality is not many of these cases go far in the courts, even in terms of actual cases being filed. If you want to find this out, go to your local clerk's office and compare the number of cases to the number of people actually doing it. You'll see it's not a priority for law enforcement and may tie up a civil court in some cases, too. But largely not what the courts are spending time on. I'm not saying it doesn't happen and you can't google copyright law, and stuff like that. But really, it's not prosecuted as much as you'd think.

But I think Cajun is talking about Jerseys and the authenticity of the NFL jerseys?

No?

 

[Reality]

I don't think that's correct. Cops and movie studios will not be impressed by your "this is a bootleg video" disclaimer when you sell them on the street or online.

I do not think you read the original post or my reply in full. The topic was knockoff products, not stolen (bootleg) products.

Stolen/Bootleg products are in fact the original product being resold without permission or compensation which of course is highly illegal. In the case of movies, music, etc. it falls under copyright violation laws.

With knockoff products, the only real "criminal" (again, stressing the word CRIMINAL) action is when the seller promotes and states that the products are the real product. Selling a knockoff product while stating it is real is considered fraud.

In the case of knockoff products being sold as knockoff (not the real thing) products, the only technical illegal claim you could make would be copyright violation on logos, slogans, etc. Even then, most of those cases would be handled through civil court, not criminal court. However, if you look very closely at a lot of knockoff products, they will alter the logos or slogans slightly and in some cases the changes are very hard to notice in order to avoid that legal trap.

For example, let's say I take a Mercedes logo off one car and stick it on another car such as a Nissan Altima. If I sell the car as an Altima, I am not violating any laws. If I sell the car as a Mercedes, I would be committing fraud.

#reality

 

[TwoCentPlain]

In an effort to avoid paying an attorney to settle an argument, I hope some of the lawyers on here will weigh in.

Is it or is it not illegal to sell a knock off Korean/Chinese made jersey in a retail environment?

What if you don't specifically state it isn't a knock off?

EDIT: I should note that I said it was illegal to do so.

Could you provide a little more information?

"Retail environment?" I'm guessing that we are not talking a department store or chain store where there is the reasonable expectation to find authentic material.

How was the material marketed? And did you ask them if it was authentic? I'm guessing that there was no sign explicitly stating "knock-off goods." I'm guessing that there was no sign either stating "authentic material." In that case, sounds like buyer beware. You are not going to get an authentic Dez Bryant jersey for $2.

Is it illegal? Who knows? It probably depends on various things not worth arguing about. Just return the jersey and ask them for your money back.

 

[DA FAN]

I'm not an attorney, but I have watched enough hours of Judge Judy;

would anyone value my expert opinion?

 

[Hoofbite]

Cut your losses and move on.

 

[bbgun]

I do not think you read the original post or my reply in full. The topic was knockoff products, not stolen (bootleg) products.

Stolen/Bootleg products are in fact the original product being resold without permission or compensation which of course is highly illegal. In the case of movies, music, etc. it falls under copyright violation laws.

With knockoff products, the only real "criminal" (again, stressing the word CRIMINAL) action is when the seller promotes and states that the products are the real product. Selling a knockoff product while stating it is real is considered fraud.

In the case of knockoff products being sold as knockoff (not the real thing) products, the only technical illegal claim you could make would be copyright violation on logos, slogans, etc. Even then, most of those cases would be handled through civil court, not criminal court. However, if you look very closely at a lot of knockoff products, they will alter the logos or slogans slightly and in some cases the changes are very hard to notice in order to avoid that legal trap.

For example, let's say I take a Mercedes logo off one car and stick it on another car such as a Nissan Altima. If I sell the car as an Altima, I am not violating any laws. If I sell the car as a Mercedes, I would be committing fraud.

#reality

What are the Risks in Manufacturing or Selling a Counterfeit Handbag?

Manufacturers and distributors of knock off handbags can be prosecuted under state and federal law for violating trademark and copyright laws. The sentence for counterfeit crimes varies widely depending on the quantity and the value of the goods, but can be very serious. In June 2004, 17 defendants charged with international counterfeit trafficking in New York faced a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison and a maximum fine of $2 million.

Sellers and distributors are liable even if they tell customers that the handbags are counterfeit. Moreover, manufactures and sellers of counterfeit handbags may also be sued in a civil suit by the company whose trademark is being infringed.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/counterfeit-handbag-lawyers.html


Purse Parties: Harmless Hobby Or Fashion Felony?

Assistant U.S. Attorney Gail Hoffman: "It's a crime. It's a violation of federal law, and people can go to jail for that."

Tiernon: "Buying the imitation bags isn't illegal, but selling them is. It's called trafficking in counterfeit goods. Even if you tell the buyer they're fake, the minute you knowingly sell a knock-off bearing a passable designer label, it's a federal crime."

Read more: http://www.wlwt.com/news/2207934/detail.html#ixzz1Vh9aRaaG

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

What are the Risks in Manufacturing or Selling a Counterfeit Handbag?

Manufacturers and distributors of knock off handbags can be prosecuted under state and federal law for violating trademark and copyright laws. The sentence for counterfeit crimes varies widely depending on the quantity and the value of the goods, but can be very serious. In June 2004, 17 defendants charged with international counterfeit trafficking in New York faced a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison and a maximum fine of $2 million.

Sellers and distributors are liable even if they tell customers that the handbags are counterfeit. Moreover, manufactures and sellers of counterfeit handbags may also be sued in a civil suit by the company whose trademark is being infringed.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/counterfeit-handbag-lawyers.html


Purse Parties: Harmless Hobby Or Fashion Felony?

Assistant U.S. Attorney Gail Hoffman: "It's a crime. It's a violation of federal law, and people can go to jail for that."

Tiernon: "Buying the imitation bags isn't illegal, but selling them is. It's called trafficking in counterfeit goods. Even if you tell the buyer they're fake, the minute you knowingly sell a knock-off bearing a passable designer label, it's a federal crime."

Read more: http://www.wlwt.com/news/2207934/detail.html#ixzz1Vh9aRaaG

Breaking the law is one thing. The actualities of being prosecuted are another. It probably won't happen. There are 17 cases in New York where I'd assume that it's rather rampant with knock offs, like watches etc. And as Reality was saying, the sentencing ranges widely. So a lot of misdemeanors aren't really going to stop these people if it's how they make their living.

 

[bbgun]

Breaking the law is one thing. The actualities of being prosecuted is another. It probably won't happen. There are 17 cases in New York where I'd assume that it's rather rampant with knock offs, like watches etc.

The "prosecution" angle is irrelevant. Reality stated that it wasn't a criminal action; clearly it is.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

The other part is arguing over which qualities of the product make it a trademark violation and which parts do not. On things like these jerseys, they're blue and silver with numbers on them. A star is a common symbol and can be modified and tweaked to resemble the copyrighted version, but technically it may not be a violation. Numbers are common, so you can't copyright a number, et cetera...so there are a lot of other specific things to think about.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

The "prosecution" angle is irrelevant. Reality stated that it wasn't a criminal action; clearly it is.

Yeah, I think the laws are meant to protect big brand companies from being undercut and making the same product for less. I get that and it's basic copyright stuff.

I'm just talking about the fact it happens every day and in most cases, it's like spitting on the sidewalk or jaywalking. It just isn't the most important thing on most levels.

 

[bbgun]

Yeah, I think the laws are meant to protect big brand companies from being undercut and making the same product for less. I get that and it's basic copyright stuff.

I'm just talking about the fact it happens every day and in most cases, it's like spitting on the sidewalk or jaywalking. It just isn't the most important thing on most levels.

Except the Feds don't get involved with that penny ante stuff. Not so counterfeiting. And if this were a matter for the civil courts, why do the authorities immediately seize all the items in question?