Hire Norv Now

[wileedog]

Wasn't Bill Bellichik a loser of the last decade? Losing records when?

91,92,93,95

Btw, when was the last time Big Bill WON a Super Bowl? Wasn't it 1990?

IN fact, since 1990 with the Giants, Bill Parcell's coaching record is 86 and 74.

He coached 10 seasons since 1990. That is an average of......

8.6 wins and 7.4 losses per season.

That's playing fuzzy math.

The guy takes over terrible franchises, turns them in to contenders and then leaves. That's always been his MO. He gets credited with the 6-10 years while the guy who takes over for him gets the following 10-6 ones.

If he pulled a Landry with the Giants and just stayed there for the duration, you know those numbers would look a LOT different.

 

[joseephuss]

Testaverde of all those got significant playing time.

Ward was inactive most weeks Murrell played in what 2 games. Coleman and Ogbogu never played for Parcells and were backups.

The way some people would present it he played these guys significant time despite them sucking arse just because they were explayers of his.

The only argument you may have for all that was him sticking with Vinny.

But that isnt the point is it. The point is that Jimmy Johsnon and Co have been terrible since 1994. And other than Butch Davis in Miami they havent sniffed success.

Yet for some ubeknownst reason people here want them hired.

If you dont like Parcells tyhen fine but dont go for the losers of the past decade.

Stoops Weiss Carroll and a whole slew of others would be infinitely better.

I don't argue your point. I don't want any of these guys for head coach. Although Jimmy Johnson would be intriguing, but that isn't going to happen. I think Norv is still a good coordinator when that is all he is has to focus on. He can't be both coordinator and head coach and still be effective. I am not pushing for Dallas to bring him in, but they should keep his number just in case they lose Payton at some time this season or next.

I made a mistake with Coleman, but Parcells coached Ogbogu with the Jets. I count Ward because he drafted other young guys to be return men, but kept putting Ward back there. He has hit more than missed with his vets, but he hasn't been perfect.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wasn't Bill Bellichik a loser of the last decade? Losing records when?

91,92,93,95

Btw, when was the last time Big Bill WON a Super Bowl? Wasn't it 1990?

IN fact, since 1990 with the Giants, Bill Parcell's coaching record is 86 and 74.

He coached 10 seasons since 1990. That is an average of......

8.6 wins and 7.4 losses per season.

Dude if you dont like Parcells then fine but dont go after the losers of the last decade. God I hate repeating myself.

Personally Im on the fence when it comes to Parcells. Im not sure I like how he hndles the offense BUT we are better off now then in 2002.


We have a defensive front 7 for the first time since 1997.

But hey if you want him out i can empathize to a degree.

Norv Turner tho?

 

[rcaldw]

That's playing fuzzy math.

The guy takes over terrible franchises, turns them in to contenders and then leaves. That's always been his MO. He gets credited with the 6-10 years while the guy who takes over for him gets the following 10-6 ones.

If he pulled a Landry with the Giants and just stayed there for the duration, you know those numbers would look a LOT different.

You guys see what you want to see.

Lets look at New England:
1993 nwe | 5 11 0 | 0 0 |
| 1994 nwe | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |
| 1995 nwe | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |
| 1996 nwe | 11 5 0 | 2 1 |

Lets look at the Jets:
1997 nyj | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |
| 1998 nyj | 12 4 0 | 1 1 |
| 1999 nyj | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |

Lets look at the Cowboys:
2003 dal | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |
| 2004 dal | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |
| 2005 dal | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |

Any success he has had it hasn't been sustained. Quick turn arounds, followed by mediocre to poor results, the only exception being his stint in New England, when he HAD all those precious assistants, including Belichick.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

I know I'm in the minority on this one, but who cares, I'll go on the record with it anyway. If you can't get Jimmy Johnson, get Norv now. Can Parcells, I'm tired of his little "its all about me" act.

Norv Turner has proven he is ineffective as a head coach. And to be honest, I don't think he is that amazing as an offensive coordinator either. I think the triplets made him look better than he is as an OC. This is the last person Dallas needs as a head coach. If you hire Norv, you can count on Campo style of football in which penalties and turnovers are the norm. Norv has no sense of leadership and the players wouldn't respect him which would lead to careless mistakes on the field as players' attention to detail falls.

Like someone above said, if you don't like Parcells, that's one thing but that doesn't mean you should replace him with rejects.

Remember the rule: Only fire a person if have you someone equal or better in waiting! Learn from the 49er's mistake.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You guys see what you want to see.

Lets look at New England:
1993 nwe | 5 11 0 | 0 0 |
| 1994 nwe | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |
| 1995 nwe | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |
| 1996 nwe | 11 5 0 | 2 1 |

Lets look at the Jets:
1997 nyj | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |
| 1998 nyj | 12 4 0 | 1 1 |
| 1999 nyj | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |

Lets look at the Cowboys:
2003 dal | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |
| 2004 dal | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |
| 2005 dal | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |

Any success he has had it hasn't been sustained. Quick turn arounds, followed by mediocre to poor results, the only exception being his stint in New England, when he HAD all those precious assistants, including Belichick.

You started this thread wanting Norv Turner brought in. Even if we were to agree that Parcells wasnt good that still would not justify your point even slightly.

Shall we bring out Turner's careeer numbers and compare them to Parcells. It would be good for a laugh.

 

[rcaldw]

You started this thread wanting Norv Turner brought in. Even if we were to agree that Parcells wasnt good that still would not justify your point even slightly.

Shall we bring out Turner's careeer numbers and compare them to Parcells. It would be good for a laugh.

I don't dispute your point about Turner's numbers up to this point. I simply said I still think he is a good football coach, and I used Bellichik's numbers to demonstrate that a guy can start off rough and still be a good coach.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't dispute your point about Turner's numbers up to this point. I simply said I still think he is a good football coach, and I used Bellichik's numbers to demonstrate that a guy can start off rough and still be a good coach.

I think Norv either goes to the college ranks or is hired as an OC but I would be suprised at this point to see him get another HC job for a while. I can honestly say I would have no interest in having Turner as HC with the Cowboys.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't dispute your point about Turner's numbers up to this point. I simply said I still think he is a good football coach, and I used Bellichik's numbers to demonstrate that a guy can start off rough and still be a good coach.

So now your saying that Turner is as good as Belickek.

Tyke1doe has a point

I guess in theory it is possible that Turner just had bad luck at two different places and that Belicheks rise had nothing to do with Parcells leaving coaching the season beofre Belichek taking over the reins in NE.

But again if theres Stoops and Weiss and Carrol out there as well as assistants from franchises that actually did well, why would you want Turner who you can only base your evaluation from 10 years agao.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

I don't dispute your point about Turner's numbers up to this point. I simply said I still think he is a good football coach, and I used Bellichik's numbers to demonstrate that a guy can start off rough and still be a good coach.

You can't compare Bellichik and Turner. For one thing, the idea or conspiracy that Bellichik is the secret behind Parcell's success is not a new one. People have been saying this for years. It was only rehashed when the Patriots won. The theory goes like this: Bellichik was a genius who lacked interpersonal skills to become a great head coach. Parcells excelled at implementing Bellichik's schemes but the brains behind the winning was always MIT boy Bellichik. I have never heard Norv Turner spoken about as a genius like Bellichik in any manner. People have said Turner is a good offensive coordinator but when people talk about offensive-minded genisuses, you will hear Mike Martz, Andy Reid and Mike Shannahan mentioned first And I don't necessarily agree that all of these guys are geniuses, I'm just repeating what the media always says.

 

[Doomsday101]

You can't compare Bellichik and Turner. For one thing, the idea or conspiracy that Bellichik is the secret behind Parcell's success is not a new one. People have been saying this for years. It was only rehashed when the Patriots won. The theory goes like this: Bellichik was a genius who lacked interpersonal skills to become a great head coach. Parcells excelled at implementing Bellichik's schemes but the brains behind the winning was always MIT boy Bellichik. I have never heard Norv Turner spoken about as a genius like Bellichik in any manner. People have said Turner is a good offensive coordinator but when people talk about offensive-minded genisuses, you will hear Mike Martz, Andy Reid and Mike Shannahan mentioned first And I don't necessarily agree that all of these guys are geniuses, I'm just repeating what the media always says.

True but the media is fickled they will turn on guys like Martz and have done so in the past. They sing your praise when your up and trash you when your down. I think Turner is a great OC but evidently has a hardtime getting a team to buy into his ways of doing things.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

So now your saying that Turner is as good as Belickek.

Tyke1doe has a point

I guess in theory it is possible that Turner just had bad luck at two different places and that Belicheks rise had nothing to do with Parcells leaving coaching the season beofre Belichek taking over the reins in NE.

But again if theres Stoops and Weiss and Carrol out there as well as assistants from franchises that actually did well, why would you want Turner who you can only base your evaluation from 10 years agao.

If we had a QB and an offensive line, I think Stoops, Carrol and Weiss would consider leaving but these guys aren't dumb. They are not going to leave their palaces just so they can coach a team with no QB, and start their first season 5-11 and get reamed by impatient and hypercritical Dallas fans and media not to mention feeling pressure from Jerry Jones.

 

[wileedog]

You guys see what you want to see.

Lets look at New England:
1993 nwe | 5 11 0 | 0 0 |
| 1994 nwe | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |
| 1995 nwe | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |
| 1996 nwe | 11 5 0 | 2 1 |

| 1992 nwe | 2 14 0 | 0 0 |

| 1992 nwe | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |
| 1998 nwe | 9 7 0 | 0 1 |

He took an awful, awful team to the SB in 4 years, and they remained contenders two years after he left. Yes, with good assistents, but who hired the assistents?

Lets look at the Jets:
1997 nyj | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |
| 1998 nyj | 12 4 0 | 1 1 |
| 1999 nyj | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |

| 1996 nyj | 1 15 0 | 0 0 |

| 2000 nyj | 9 7 0 | 1 1 |
| 2001 nyj | 10 6 0 | 0 0 |
| 2002 nyj | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |

Absolutely horrible Jets team. 3 years after he leaves in a tough division they are still competitive.

Lets look at the Cowboys:
2003 dal | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |
| 2004 dal | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |
| 2005 dal | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |

If Bill leaves do you really think this team nosedives immediately back into the 5-11 horror show of Campo? With all the young talent we have?

When a team is as bad as the Jets, Pats or even we were, it simply takes time to get enought garbage off the roster and replaced with viable talent. Just looking at Parcell's win loss record is a terrible way to judge his career.



And Norv Turner still stinks. How many opportunities does he get to fail before he finds his "right situation?"

 

[mr.jameswoods]

True but the media is fickled they will turn on guys like Martz and have done so in the past. They sing your praise when your up and trash you when your down. I think Turner is a great OC but evidently has a hardtime getting a team to buy into his ways of doing things.

You are right and what's funny is now the media loves Martz all over again and thinks he will get a head coaching job somewhere or at the very least an OC position.

 

[joseephuss]

If we had a QB and an offensive line, I think Stoops, Carrol and Weiss would consider leaving but these guys aren't dumb. They are not going to leave their palaces just so they can coach a team with no QB, and start their first season 5-11 and get reamed by impatient and hypercritical Dallas fans and media not to mention feeling pressure from Jerry Jones.

Do you think the Texans will approach Stoops? As you said, he would be crazy to leave Norman where he is a god to go to the disaster that is Houston.

 

[kingwhicker]

I'm sorry- I'm as big a Jimmy Johnson disciple as there is, but no way would I want Norv as our head coach, that would be the death blow to the franchise.