Hollis Thomas...

[Chocolate Lab]

Clenbuterol isn't an anabolic steroid. *repeat* Clenbuterol isn't an anabolic steroid. It's a beta-2-agonist and has never been proven to have any anabolic effects in humans.

It is more of a fat loss agent, isn't it? I've read of bodybuilders taking that stuff.

 

[NotReally]

FWIW, this is the position that Hollis Thomas is taking and is being backed by THE DOCTOR THAT PRESCRIBED HIS MEDICATION:

Amoss prescribed Thomas' asthma medication during training camp and wrote a letter outlining the drugs that Thomas was using for Thomas' appeal. Amoss indicated in the letter that the combination of drugs that Thomas was using, and continues to use, could result in a false positive test for clenbuterol.

http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1165479427162360.xml&coll=1

The NFL is saying that Thomas is being suspended for having clenbuterol in his system. If it is true that Thomas' medication could have caused a false positive for clenbuterol (I have no idea if it could or couldn't), then perhaps the NFL needs to look at this again. The NFL's statement to the NYT doesn't even address the possibility of a false positive. Personally, I would like to hear from some experts in the field of toxicology and get their take on whether it was possible that Thomas' medications could have caused a false positive. If they say it couldn't, then suspend him. If they say it could have caused a false positive, I don't see how the league can suspend him in good faith.

Seems like this "addresses" the issue.

“I have never heard the proposition put forth that this combination of drugs would produce a positive test for clenbuterol,” said Dr. Gary I. Wadler, an associate professor of medicine at New York University and an adviser for the World Anti-Doping Agency.

Hmmmm, an associate professor of medicine who regularly deals with "doping" issues, or a professional athletes PERSONAL PHYSICIAN WHO PRESCRIBED THE DRUGS ??????????? Who should I believe?????

 

[NotReally]

It's effect is defined in the article:

A drug test on Aug. 7 found clenbuterol, a banned drug that helps burn fat and promotes muscle growth, in Thomas’s body.

 

[Pleading the Fif]

Whine, and moan, the rule was in place.

Ok, I don't see where I disputed that. My take is that eventually, when enough ignorant people say "Hollis Thomas was taking steroids" and "Thomas and Merriman are juicing", etc, then everyone will start saying it. Just trying to set the record straight. Clenbuterol is not a steroid and has no anabolic effects.

 

[speedkilz88]

Ok, I don't see where I disputed that. My take is that eventually, when enough ignorant people say "Hollis Thomas was taking steroids" and "Thomas and Merriman are juicing", etc, then everyone will start saying it. Just trying to set the record straight. Clenbuterol is not a steroid and has no anabolic effects.

helps burn fat and promotes muscle growth

 

[Pleading the Fif]

It's effect is defined in the article:

It has never been proven to promote muscle growth in humans. There are some studies that show it promotes muscle growth in lab animals.

 

[Pleading the Fif]

helps burn fat and promotes muscle growth

Don't believe everything you read. It does do that... in rats.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3676200&dopt=Abstract

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1133617

Best article to read, although evidence is anecdotal:

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/dharkam/clenbuterol-and-muscle-growth.htm

 

[cowboys#1]

AUG 7TH!!!
i cant believe it took that long to suspend him! 12 games in and they finally get a result....i wonder who else is on the juice since preseason that hasnt been caught yet?

 

[j_welcome]

FWIW, this is the position that Hollis Thomas is taking and is being backed by the doctor that prescribed his medication:

Amoss prescribed Thomas' asthma medication during training camp and wrote a letter outlining the drugs that Thomas was using for Thomas' appeal. Amoss indicated in the letter that the combination of drugs that Thomas was using, and continues to use, could result in a false positive test for clenbuterol.

http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1165479427162360.xml&coll=1

The NFL is saying that Thomas is being suspended for having clenbuterol in his system. If it is true that Thomas' medication could have caused a false positive for clenbuterol (I have no idea if it could or couldn't), then perhaps the NFL needs to look at this again. The NFL's statement to the NYT doesn't even address the possibility of a false positive. Personally, I would like to hear from some experts in the field of toxicology and get their take on whether it was possible that Thomas' medications could have caused a false positive. If they say it couldn't, then suspend him. If they say it could have caused a false positive, I don't see how the league can suspend him in good faith.

Why would they look again? He failed the test on August 7th. If he was smart, he'd have stop taking the horse steroid and it wouldn't be in his system.

 

[Bungarian]

clenbuterol is not a steriod. It helps burn fat.

 

[SaintSand]

Seems like this "addresses" the issue.



Hmmmm, an associate professor of medicine who regularly deals with "doping" issues, or a professional athletes PERSONAL PHYSICIAN WHO PRESCRIBED THE DRUGS ??????????? Who should I believe?????

Thanks for the info. Do you have a link to that quote? I would like to read up more on this. Like I wrote, if the claim that it can cause a false positive is baseless, then Thomas should be suspended.

 

[Yeagermeister]

It doesn't matter what the drug does. If it's on the banned list it's a violation.

 

[j_welcome]

It doesn't matter what the drug does. If it's on the banned list it's a violation.

Not only is it banned in the NFL, it is ILLEGAL!!! Thomas is lucky he is only getting 4 games suspension, not thrown in jail for the 4 weeks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drug-testing experts also questioned the team doctor’s written argument. Clenbuterol is not a steroid, but it cannot be obtained legally for human use in the United States. Only veterinarians treating horses with severe breathing problems similar to asthma can prescribe the drug.

 

[SaintSand]

Every athlete that gets caught for steroid use always claims that its a false positive from something else they've taken, from the olympics to professional sports.

I just can't believe there is that many ignorant people out there that continue to believe them.

Well, if the information I provided had come from only Thomas himself, I wouldn't have posted it. The fact that his doctor is the one saying it gives me reason to at least look at what he is saying before dismissing it out of hand.

 

[Yeagermeister]

Not only is it banned in the NFL, it is ILLEGAL!!! Thomas is lucky he is only getting 4 games suspension, not thrown in jail for the 4 weeks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drug-testing experts also questioned the team doctor’s written argument. Clenbuterol is not a steroid, but it cannot be obtained legally for human use in the United States. Only veterinarians treating horses with severe breathing problems similar to asthma can prescribe the drug.

Well he's as big as a horse

 

[DCfaninDC]

FWIW, this is the position that Hollis Thomas is taking and is being backed by the doctor that prescribed his medication:

Amoss prescribed Thomas' asthma medication during training camp and wrote a letter outlining the drugs that Thomas was using for Thomas' appeal. Amoss indicated in the letter that the combination of drugs that Thomas was using, and continues to use, could result in a false positive test for clenbuterol.

http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1165479427162360.xml&coll=1

The NFL is saying that Thomas is being suspended for having clenbuterol in his system. If it is true that Thomas' medication could have caused a false positive for clenbuterol (I have no idea if it could or couldn't), then perhaps the NFL needs to look at this again. The NFL's statement to the NYT doesn't even address the possibility of a false positive. Personally, I would like to hear from some experts in the field of toxicology and get their take on whether it was possible that Thomas' medications could have caused a false positive. If they say it couldn't, then suspend him. If they say it could have caused a false positive, I don't see how the league can suspend him in good faith.

If the NFL start excusing players for having positive tests and base them on combination of drugs then there will be a long line of players using steriods and find a couple other medication that will help get out of it. I am sure that the NFL didn't rely on one test only and we know that this has been going on for a couple of weeks now. Everyone needs to be held accountable for what they put in their body, medication schmedication...all excuses...take it like a man and serve your suspension.

 

[stealth]

Ok, I don't see where I disputed that. My take is that eventually, when enough ignorant people say "Hollis Thomas was taking steroids" and "Thomas and Merriman are juicing", etc, then everyone will start saying it. Just trying to set the record straight. Clenbuterol is not a steroid and has no anabolic effects.

it has mild anabolic effects not none. It is also useful when on a restricted calorie diet as it helps our bodies to use fat stores rather than the proteins stored in muscle. So in effect you can severely restrict your diet lose fat while gaining muscle mass, which otherwise wouldn't be possible. In that sense it is very similar to steriods in that it allows a gain of muscle mass and a reduction in body fat.

 

[Bungarian]

Yep - it is against the law to take. And it is usually taken with steriods.

 

[SaintSand]

If the NFL start excusing players for having positive tests and base them on combination of drugs then there will be a long line of players using steriods and find a couple other medication that will help get out of it.

I completely agree. I think that is why the NFL is sticking by its guns on this one even though there is "some" evidence that test could have been a false positive. Admitting that there could be false positives would cast suspicion on every test result.

At the same time, if someone takes two drugs that are legal, but the combination of them results in a false positive, then the player is being suspended because the test isn't good enough...not because he took a banned substance.

 

[SaintSand]

In response to NotReally's Dr. Wadler's quote, I found this...

Q: Will Clenbuterol show up on a drug test?
A: Only if you are being tested by a body that bans it. This is generally
international competition such as the Olympics. Employment, doctors physicals,
military does NOT test for this. The NCAA is reputed not to, however this is
unknown. It is best to get a prescription from a doctor for asthma medication.
Ventolin, Albuterol and the like trigger the same tests as Clenbuterol. With a
doctors prescription for one of these similar products, the Clen will be seen
as a false positive.

http://www.basskilleronline.com/clenbuterol_nick.html

I don't know how reliable the information on this website is, but it calls into question Dr. Wadler's quote that he doesn't know of a proposition that has been put forth that a combination of drugs could give a false positive for clenbuterol. Someone out there is saying that it can, along with the doctor that prescribed it to Thomas.

Now I know it can be argued that Thomas used Clenbuterol and the other prescribed drugs are a mask, but he does have a severe case of asthma. So he isn't getting the asthma medications as a scam.