How big of a need is DT 3T?

[LACowboysFan1]

Minor need, Cowboys have enough bodies, none are Pro Bowl level, but the young guys need another year of development before we can say just how good, or not good, they are.

Wouldn't hurt to get a DT in the draft, or even an udfa, that has shown good pass rushing ability, a push up the middle is so lacking on this team. And I agree a good big run stuffer guy at 1T would help the other DTs to rush the passer, but do those other DTs have the quickness, motor and technique to take advantage of the run stuffer occupying blockers?

Have to remember it's a 5 vs 4 on the line, even if your run stuffer occupies 2 guys your other DT and your DEs still have a blocker they have to get through. Stunts and such can help there but if your 3T position players can't win those one on one battles, then your great run stuffer isn't helping that much more than who you have now....

 

[LACowboysFan1]

100%

This forum’s oversimplified infatuation with big fatties is delusional. You aren’t automatically a great run stopper because you’re 320-340 lbs. You don’t just automatically take up two blockers based on your sheer mass.

Yeah Cowboys have Ankou, listed at 325, if all you need is a 320-340 lb guy then what's the problem?

 

[darthseinfeld]

I keep on seeing many mock drafts here with 3T defensive tackles, but rarely am I seeing what is truly needed, a 1 Tech run stuffer. Team already spent back to back drafts at the position with Hill/Gallimore. I understand some are losing patience with Hill, but he still was a high pick by the team and they already have competition in house with Gallimore at the position. Quinn scheme isn't like Marinelli's, where he plays a 2 gap NT type, not another 3T.

Unless a quality 3T falls in their laps, they need to address NT.

I dont think Gallimore is a true 3T. He is more of a hybrid. He is pass rushing 1T with with a good combination of power and burst to rush the passer from interior gaps. However I think he is too linier an athlete to rush the passer as a true 3T consistently. He is best used similarly to how Wade used Ratliff at NT

 

[Cowboyny]

I dont think Gallimore is a true 3T. He is more of a hybrid. He is pass rushing 1T with with a good combination of power and burst to rush the passer from interior gaps. However I think he is too linier an athlete to rush the passer as a true 3T consistently. He is best used similarly to how Wade used Ratliff at NT

I know your high on Barmore, what you described about Gallimore is kind of what I think about Barmore. More of a pass rushing 1T, who can play some 3 on the next level. Just like Gallimore, I am worried that either player is good enough against the run.

I think unless a quality 3T is available when they are on the clock, they will look to drafting more of a 1 Tech. Now, that hasn't happened in many years, so more of a hybrid DT could be the type they target. The team could also take a tweener like a Carlos Basham, who could replace Crawford as that versatile lineman who can play DE in the base and kick inside on the nickel.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Because 1-techs don't matter.

Run defense, in general, doesn't really matter.

OMG......



I just.........., I can't with you today. I wonder, did anybody watch the Bucs - Packers game?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You know, it's interesting because my oldest Boy, we were talking about this just yesterday. The question of the importance of 3Tech in Quinn's scheme. I am not sure it's really all that important, to be honest. I mean, part of the genius of that scheme is that in the cap era, it allows you to take advantage of savings. Especially at CB and 3Tech and DE. If Quinn runs this the way it was designed, then you really don't need the classic 3Tech, per say. It is a 43 but not a traditional 43. So how you run this, in terms of personnel is with a NT/1Tech, two lineman that are essentially 5Techs and one LEO or rush guy that really plays like a Wide 9 DE, called Leo, or you may know it as Elephant. So it's a 43 Under but it give you a lot of 34 looks, in terms of alignments and personnel.

 

[Uncle_Hank]

You know, it's interesting because my oldest Boy, we were talking about this just yesterday. The question of the importance of 3Tech in Quinn's scheme. I am not sure it's really all that important, to be honest. I mean, part of the genius of that scheme is that in the cap era, it allows you to take advantage of savings. Especially at CB and 3Tech and DE. If Quinn runs this the way it was designed, then you really don't need the classic 3Tech, per say. It is a 43 but not a traditional 43. So how you run this, in terms of personnel is with a NT/1Tech, two lineman that are essentially 5Techs and one LEO or rush guy that really plays like a Wide 9 DE, called Leo, or you may know it as Elephant. So it's a 43 Under but it give you a lot of 34 looks, in terms of alignments and personnel.

I like it. Get a 1T who can move the pocket, then flank him with Gallimore and Lawrence on each side. Gregory plays Leo next to Gallimore. Mix and match whoever you want behind them.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I like it. Get a 1T who can move the pocket, then flank him with Gallimore and Lawrence on each side. Gregory plays Leo next to Gallimore. Mix and match whoever you want behind them.

Basically, that's it. The idea is to push the pocket right into the lap of the QB, flush him out and allow a wide 9 run and chase guy to drag him down, off the edge. If he breaks contain, the LBs chase and tackle. That's it in a nutshell, in terms of base concept. This Defense is all about time in the pocket allowed. If you can't get pressure, then it fails because any QB with time will beat it. But, if you can get pressure, it works. No QB can make plays consistently under pressure. I mean, just look at Rodgers last week. He had three straight turnovers to work with but couldn't make anything happen because of pressure and that's Aaron Rodgers.

Edit:

The one question I would have is, does Lawrence fit? He doesn't fit as the 5Tech, he's too small IMO but I guess we'll see.

 

[J-man]

The one question I would have is, does Lawrence fit? He doesn't fit as the 5Tech, he's too small IMO but I guess we'll see.

Can Tank beef up 10-15lbs?

Not that I'm a huge fan of his, do you think they would try to bring Crawford back to play DE? He seems better suited for that role in this system. That is, if he's fully healed and if he has anything left in the tank.

Not that I want to draft a DE early, but what about Kwity Paye or Carlos Basham for that role?

 

[Future]

I dont think Gallimore is a true 3T. He is more of a hybrid. He is pass rushing 1T with with a good combination of power and burst to rush the passer from interior gaps. However I think he is too linier an athlete to rush the passer as a true 3T consistently. He is best used similarly to how Wade used Ratliff at NT

I don't really get what you're trying to say here.

Shooting gaps is exactly what 3Ts do well. Other than Aaron Donald, they all have to play "linear" to be effective. It doesn't matter if you do that as a 1T or 3T. Ratliff, as an example, was good at that and basically that only. He was criminally wasted as a nose, but really only played there because of injuries.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Can Tank beef up 10-15lbs?

Not that I'm a huge fan of his, do you think they would try to bring Crawford back to play DE? He seems better suited for that role in this system. That is, if he's fully healed and if he has anything left in the tank.

Not that I want to draft a DE early, but what about Kwity Paye or Carlos Basham for that role?

I think the question is, will Tank want to do that? I mean, the thing about that 5Tech is that it takes a lot of pounding. Will Tank want to do that because it shortens his career. So would Tank rather go to a scheme that allows him to use his pass rushing skills or would he be content to just make the change, assuming he would be able to. I mean, even with a 10-15 pound gain, he's still on the light side for the position. Most of those guys are plus 300 so it's still a problem. I doubt that Tank is going to be in love with that idea. He will want to be the Leo but he's not suited to that IMO.

I don't know that Crawford is worth the money it might cost, might go younger there. Paye is basically Tank and Basham, he's probably a 2nd or 3rd round pick, so not at 10 overall.

 

[Cowboyny]

I think the question is, will Tank want to do that? I mean, the thing about that 5Tech is that it takes a lot of pounding. Will Tank want to do that because it shortens his career. So would Tank rather go to a scheme that allows him to use his pass rushing skills or would he be content to just make the change, assuming he would be able to. I mean, even with a 10-15 pound gain, he's still on the light side for the position. Most of those guys are plus 300 so it's still a problem. I doubt that Tank is going to be in love with that idea. He will want to be the Leo but he's not suited to that IMO.

I don't know that Crawford is worth the money it might cost, might go younger there. Paye is basically Tank and Basham, he's probably a 2nd or 3rd round pick, so not at 10 overall.

If Quinn was honest, he is going to build his defense around his talent, not his scheme. Didn't Michael Bennett play LE for the Seahawks when Quinn was their DC?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

If Quinn was honest, he is going to build his defense around his talent, not his scheme. Didn't Michael Bennett play LE for the Seahawks when Quinn was their DC?

Not exactly what he said in that interview. He basically said that he would use the skills he had, for now. He never said that he would not bring in personnel to fit his scheme.

Yes, Bennett did play for Seattle for awhile.

 

[Mr_437]

Levi Onwuzurike is a better 3Tech than Gallimore n Hill available in the late 1st round. However, Dallas has invested a 2nd and 3rd rounder recently, so they probably should just let them (#96,#72) sink or swim...no bridges, life jackets, no McCoy.

Cowboys really need a bad mofo joe at 1Tech/NT. Can't fill ever need this off-season, so leave 3T alone and fix 1T this time around. Just use the same 2nd or 3rd rounder they've been putting towards 3T and select a 1T.

 

[Cowboyny]

Not exactly what he said in that interview. He basically said that he would use the skills he had, for now. He never said that he would not bring in personnel to fit his scheme.

Yes, Bennett did play for Seattle for awhile.

You got to think Tank plays a similar role as Bennett did under Quinn. They have similar size/weight. Perhaps, Quinn moves Tank around more, like how Bennett was used in the past. Think we would agree, Gregory is ideal for the LEO position.

 

[Cowboyny]

You know, it's interesting because my oldest Boy, we were talking about this just yesterday. The question of the importance of 3Tech in Quinn's scheme. I am not sure it's really all that important, to be honest. I mean, part of the genius of that scheme is that in the cap era, it allows you to take advantage of savings. Especially at CB and 3Tech and DE. If Quinn runs this the way it was designed, then you really don't need the classic 3Tech, per say. It is a 43 but not a traditional 43. So how you run this, in terms of personnel is with a NT/1Tech, two lineman that are essentially 5Techs and one LEO or rush guy that really plays like a Wide 9 DE, called Leo, or you may know it as Elephant. So it's a 43 Under but it give you a lot of 34 looks, in terms of alignments and personnel.

This sounds quite like a 3-4 alignment, with just 1 stand-up OLB in the LEO role. Instead of two OLB's, they have another off-the ball linebacker in the base. He gets replaced in the nickel, when the extra corner comes in.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You got to think Tank plays a similar role as Bennett did under Quinn. They have similar size/weight. Perhaps, Quinn moves Tank around more, like how Bennett was used in the past. Think we would agree, Gregory is ideal for the LEO position.

Not really. Bennett put on a weight and was willing to play that role. Will Tank do that, I don't know but the point is, you gotta want to do that because you aren't going to be able to do it for long. Bennett went to Seattle, played it for 5 seasons and then played a season in Philly, came to Dallas and you remember the player we got? He was done, that's what that scheme will do to you if you play the 5tech DE.

 

[Cowboyny]

Not really. Bennett put on a weight and was willing to play that role. Will Tank do that, I don't know but the point is, you gotta want to do that because you aren't going to be able to do it for long. Bennett went to Seattle, played it for 5 seasons and then played a season in Philly, came to Dallas and you remember the player we got? He was done, that's what that scheme will do to you if you play the 5tech DE.

Maybe they play him some at the Leo position with Gregory to prevent him from waring down so much. That role could have either a stand-up or in the dirt edge player.

Saying all this, we are going to need a NT/1 Tech and at least another 5T if not two for the DL. Paye from Michigan, Basham from Wake Forest are the high end 5 Tech's, but I am pretty should they can target some players further down in the draft. We certainly should see both positions also addressed in fa.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Maybe they play him some at the Leo position with Gregory to prevent him from waring down so much. That role could have either a stand-up or in the dirt edge player.

Saying all this, we are going to need a NT/1 Tech and at least another 5T if not two for the DL. Paye from Michigan, Basham from Wake Forest are the high end 5 Tech's, but I am pretty should they can target some players further down in the draft. We certainly should see both positions also addressed in fa.

See, that's kind of the problem though right? The team is already paying Lawrence a lot of money and that contract doesn't look nearly as good if he's splitting time with Gregory. It also probably drives the price for Gregory as well and that too is a problem.

I do agree though, we are going to need to bring in some different talent to run that scheme the way they did in Seattle but you get those guys later. No need to over pay for guys that should be cost savings players against the cap.

 

[Cowboyny]

See, that's kind of the problem though right? The team is already paying Lawrence a lot of money and that contract doesn't look nearly as good if he's splitting time with Gregory. It also probably drives the price for Gregory as well and that too is a problem.

I do agree though, we are going to need to bring in some different talent to run that scheme the way they did in Seattle but you get those guys later. No need to over pay for guys that should be cost savings players against the cap.

Probably the best way to utilize Tank, would play him all over the line.

Day 3 would be an excellent time to draft some of those lunch-pail 5 Tech's. Think finding that NT is the biggest need to address for this scheme as they don't have anyone on the current roster for that position.