How do you guys feel about Louis Nix?

[Sydla]

Yes, ND played 3-4, but they also used plenty of 4-3 fronts. I encourage you to go back and watch Nix if you think he is just a space eating NT. I'm not even sure you can find a scouting report on him that doesn't commend his initial burst and how fluid and athletic he is.

As a ND grad who has attended and seen all of their games, I know what they played. They played a base 3-4 two gap system. You can find articles on Bob Diaco's defense at ND and it states clearly that Diaco's "no crease" 3-4 was more a 2 gap system. Furthermore, their 4-3 fronts were simply the OLB putting his hand on the ground in passing situations with Nix lining up a shade to the left or right of the center.

I am not saying Nix is just a space eating NT. He's athletic for his size. All I am saying is that he's probably a better fit as a 3-4 NT than a 4-3 DT. I've already said I wouldn't mind taking him if we could slide down a few spots and pick up an extra pick.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

As a ND grad who has attended and seen all of their games, I know what they played. They played a base 3-4 two gap system. You can find articles on Bob Diaco's defense at ND and it states clearly that Diaco's "no crease" 3-4 was more a 2 gap system. Furthermore, their 4-3 fronts were simply the OLB putting his hand on the ground in passing situations with Nix lining up a shade to the left or right of the center.

I am not saying Nix is just a space eating NT. He's athletic for his size. All I am saying is that he's probably a better fit as a 3-4 NT than a 4-3 DT. I've already said I wouldn't mind taking him if we could slide down a few spots and pick up an extra pick.

I don't agree. He has excellent agility and his whole game is about shooting the gap and creating havoc. He's not really very good with his hands. He doesn't play with great leverage and he plays a little high, which in turn, allows OLs to get into his pads. He's not a great fit as a 34 NT. Could he play it? Sure he could. He could be taught to do all of those things but as a ND grad, who has attended and seen all of their games, I know that you must know this. On the other hand, he has the size and speed to be disruptive and to get penetration, which he did with great regularity at ND. He can project to DT in a 43 scheme and be a guy who makes a ton of money as a 3 Tech. Why on earth would he be a NT and why, if you were a DC, would you ever waste his talents like that? I'm sorry, we don't agree here.

 

[Sydla]

I don't agree. He has excellent agility and his whole game is about shooting the gap and creating havoc. He's not really very good with his hands. He doesn't play with great leverage and he plays a little high, which in turn, allows OLs to get into his pads. He's not a great fit as a 34 NT. Could he play it? Sure he could. He could be taught to do all of those things but as a ND grad, who has attended and seen all of their games, you already know this. On the other hand, he has the size and speed to be disruptive and to get penetration, which he did with great regularity at ND. He can project to DT in a 43 scheme and be a guy who makes a ton of money as a 3 Tech. Why on earth would he be a NT and why, if you were a DC, would you ever waste his talents like that? I'm sorry, we don't agree here.

Then we will just agree to disagree. If you think he's a better 4-3 DT than 3-4 NT, then fine but your reasoning is off because you seem to think he played a certain way at ND when he didn't. ND was a two gap 3-4 team and that's what Nix played most of the time.

As I said, I'd be fine drafting him because I think he could be a good DT here. I just think he's a better NT.

Here's one analysis.

http://www.football.com/en-us/louis-nix-iii-vs-aaron-donald-different-ways-of-dominating-play/

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Then we will just agree to disagree. If you think he's a better 4-3 DT than 3-4 NT, then fine but your reasoning is off because you seem to think he played a certain way at ND when he didn't. ND was a two gap 3-4 team and that's what Nix played most of the time.

As I said, I'd be fine drafting him because I think he could be a good DT here. I just think he's a better NT.

No, that's not exactly true. I think he played a certain style where he was very effective and I think it projects well for him in the NFL. I think that while at ND, when he just played the traditional roll of NT, he played it at a level that will not make him big money or even guarantee him a chance of being a starter at NT for a 34 team. He's not special if he's just eating blocks IMO.

I think he could be a great DT. I think he's just another guy at NT.

 

[Sydla]

No, that's not exactly true. I think he played a certain style where he was very effective and I think it projects well for him in the NFL. I think that while at ND, when he just played the traditional roll of NT, he played it at a level that will not make him big money or even guarantee him a chance of being a starter at NT for a 34 team. He's not special if he's just eating blocks IMO.

I think he could be a great DT. I think he's just another guy at NT.

Fair enough.

 

[TheCount]

I think Nix is the 2nd best DT in this class, maybe #1 if not for the concern about his weight and injuries.

 

[AsthmaField]

It is a mistake to think that Marinelli's system dictates only "Ultraquick" DTs. That's actually not the case at all. His system relies on players who are disruptive. Now, this can come in a few different forms. They can be exceptionally quick or they can be massively strong or they can be a combination of both. Nix is the latter. I would love to have Nix and I believe he is the best DT option in this draft but again, that is only my opinion.

I would be very happy to have in at 16. JMO

Let me put it this way: I seriously doubt we will ever see Marinelli with a starting 3 Tech who weighs 330 pounds. While I do agree that Nix is quick for his size, he isn't nearly quick enough to play Marinelli's 3 Tech spot. There are many guys in this draft alone that could be had outside of the first round who have better quickness and would fit that position better.

Let me put it another way: I seriously doubt Dallas drafts Nix in May, because if he was going to play on the line for Marinelli he would almost surely be a 1 Tech and Dallas has already come out and said they think they can find that position after the first round.

Let me put it yet another way: Dallas has said this off season that they want speed and quickness over size, and that it is those quick-twitch traits that they want to try to bring on board. Imposing size has never been a hallmark of a Marinelli or Kiffin defensive line.

So, when the team says they want quickness and speed for their defense (even at the 1 Tech), and when the team says they don't want to draft a 1 Tech in the first (even if they did want size first), why would you argue that they will take a guy in round 1 who is not quick or fast as compared to guys like Jernigan, Donald, Reid, Easley, etc.? Some of whom can be had in the second round or later.

Remember, the OP asked if anyone thought the front office was interested in Nix, and that is what I was referring to when I said I didn't think he fit the system or was what Marinelli wanted... which you said was a "mistake" for me to think.

 

[tm1119]

As a ND grad who has attended and seen all of their games, I know what they played. They played a base 3-4 two gap system. You can find articles on Bob Diaco's defense at ND and it states clearly that Diaco's "no crease" 3-4 was more a 2 gap system. Furthermore, their 4-3 fronts were simply the OLB putting his hand on the ground in passing situations with Nix lining up a shade to the left or right of the center.

I am not saying Nix is just a space eating NT. He's athletic for his size. All I am saying is that he's probably a better fit as a 3-4 NT than a 4-3 DT. I've already said I wouldn't mind taking him if we could slide down a few spots and pick up an extra pick.

That sounds exactly like a 4-3.... I'm just confused as to what you think Nix's job would be as a 1 tech for the Dallas Cowboys. Most of the time he would be asked to line up just off of the shoulder of the center and shoot the A gap. Do you not think he would excel at that?

 

[AsthmaField]

That sounds exactly like a 4-3.... I'm just confused as to what you think Nix's job would be as a 1 tech for the Dallas Cowboys. Most of the time he would be asked to line up just off of the shoulder of the center and shoot the A gap. Do you not think he would excel at that?

I know you aren't asking me, but I do think that Nix would be good in that capacity. I like Nix the player, but I simply don't think that is the way the team would go based on what they've said about wanting speed and quickness and what they've said about taking a 1-Tech in the first round.

I think that Nix - if he was in shape and motivated - would be really good playing Marinelli's 1 Tech position. I do think Jernigan would be better though and I think the team would think so as well. If they were going to take a 1 Tech in the first round, that is. Jernigan is like a cross between Donald and Nix and just fits the system better IMO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Let me put it this way: I seriously doubt we will ever see Marinelli with a starting 3 Tech who weighs 330 pounds. While I do agree that Nix is quick for his size, he isn't nearly quick enough to play Marinelli's 3 Tech spot. There are many guys in this draft alone that could be had outside of the first round who have better quickness and would fit that position better.

Let me put it another way: I seriously doubt Dallas drafts Nix in May, because if he was going to play on the line for Marinelli he would almost surely be a 1 Tech and Dallas has already come out and said they think they can find that position after the first round.

Let me put it yet another way: Dallas has said this off season that they want speed and quickness over size, and that it is those quick-twitch traits that they want to try to bring on board. Imposing size has never been a hallmark of a Marinelli or Kiffin defensive line.

So, when the team says they want quickness and speed for their defense (even at the 1 Tech), and when the team says they don't want to draft a 1 Tech in the first (even if they did want size first), why would you argue that they will take a guy in round 1 who is not quick or fast as compared to guys like Jernigan, Donald, Reid, Easley, etc.? Some of whom can be had in the second round or later.

Remember, the OP asked if anyone thought the front office was interested in Nix, and that is what I was referring to when I said I didn't think he fit the system or was what Marinelli wanted... which you said was a "mistake" for me to think.

Let me put it this way, Nix is not a 1 Tech DT.

 

[AsthmaField]

Let me put it this way, Nix is not a 1 Tech DT.

Lol, okay.

 

[tm1119]

I know you aren't asking me, but I do think that Nix would be good in that capacity. I like Nix the player, but I simply don't think that is the way the team would go based on what they've said about wanting speed and quickness and what they've said about taking a 1-Tech in the first round.

I think that Nix - if he was in shape and motivated - would be really good playing Marinelli's 1 Tech position. I do think Jernigan would be better though and I think the team would think so as well. If they were going to take a 1 Tech in the first round, that is. Jernigan is like a cross between Donald and Nix and just fits the system better IMO.

I would take either Nix in Jernigan in a heart beat for this defense next to Melton. I also don't think you can take Jerry at his word. I think he's going to take the best available defensive player and its a very realistic possibility that could be a 1 tech. How many positions has he eliminated to the media already? S, OL, 1 Tech....so its Donald, Mosley, or reach on a DE?

 

[Sydla]

That sounds exactly like a 4-3.... I'm just confused as to what you think Nix's job would be as a 1 tech for the Dallas Cowboys. Most of the time he would be asked to line up just off of the shoulder of the center and shoot the A gap. Do you not think he would excel at that?

I clearly said I would draft him and that I think he could play DT for us. I just think he's a better NT than DT. He was a two gap NT at ND and excelled at it.

And yes, ND used some 4 man fronts but it was a situational package like a nickel package or dime package. They didn't play a lot of 4 man fronts. So to say he played in a 4-3 kind of implies a lot of experience in it and that's not true. ND played mostly a 3-4 two gap base defense. Furthermore, sometimes (note I am not saying all the time) ND would actually take Nix off the field in the 4 man front package and slid the two 3-4 DEs, Tuitt and Sheldon Day (Or Lewis-Moore two seasons ago), inside and had the two OLBs, usually Shembo and Ishaq Williams, put their hands on the ground as the DEs.

 

[AsthmaField]

ND would actually take Nix off the field in the 4 man front package and slid the two 3-4 DEs, Tuitt and Sheldon Day (Or Lewis-Moore two seasons ago), inside and had the two OLBs, usually Shembo and Ishaq Williams, put their hands on the ground as the DEs.

This is a tad off-topic, but I would like for Dallas to try to take Shembo later in the draft if he's available. I really like the way he plays the game (toughness, passion) and I think he's a natural leader (by example). He kind of doesn't have a true position, but Dallas could play him as a situational pass rusher and special teams player.

Since you are a ND guy, what do you think of Shembo?

 

[Fredd]

I like Shembo a lot, and wouldn't mind a 3rd day pick on him....as far as Nix is concerned, the DLine certainly could use him, I just don't feel he us #16 pick material...mid 20's kinda guy to me...others have said it about trading down to get more pick(s), but you have to have a partner and that partner has to have need...I would be looking at teams like Cleveland, Carolina and San Fran at the moment and start the "what if" discussions with them (ex to SF: "What if Evans is there at 16, what do you give me?")

 

[Sydla]

This is a tad off-topic, but I would like for Dallas to try to take Shembo later in the draft if he's available. I really like the way he plays the game (toughness, passion) and I think he's a natural leader (by example). He kind of doesn't have a true position, but Dallas could play him as a situational pass rusher and special teams player.

Since you are a ND guy, what do you think of Shembo?

I'd take a flier on him late. I thought he was better two years ago as opposed to last year but ND's 2012 defense overall was much better than last year's. There were games this year where he seemed to just disappear. He seemed more consistent two years ago.

He's probably a 3-4 LB but as you said he might be a solid special teams guy and a situational DE type in our 4-3 D.

Another late round ND guy might be Bennett Jackson, the CB. Another player who just played poorly this last season but was better two, even three seasons ago.

 

[AsthmaField]

I'd take a flier on him late. I thought he was better two years ago as opposed to last year but ND's 2012 defense overall was much better than last year's. There were games this year where he seemed to just disappear. He seemed more consistent two years ago.

He's probably a 3-4 LB but as you said he might be a solid special teams guy and a situational DE type in our 4-3 D.

Another late round ND guy might be Bennett Jackson, the CB. Another player who just played poorly this last season but was better two, even three seasons ago.

Thanks man, I appreciate the info.

I read somewhere that somebody from ND said that Shembo was hands-down the toughest player on that whole team and that nobody wanted to mess with him. I would like to add that kind of toughness to the team as a late round flyer.

Shembo is the type of player that comes along from time-to-time that has a better pro career than college. He certainly has the athleticism and strength to play, and Marinelli does a good job of playing guys to their strengths. Marinelli can find a couple of things that he does well and just ask him to do those things. Shembo's build reminds me of James Harrison with his short, stocky frame (6-1, 253) and good strength. If we can get him something like the 6th round and try to use him just as a designated pass rusher... well, you never know.

IMO, it is worth a late round pick to see what Marinelli can do with him. When you have strengths like these, you can always work with a guy:

STRENGTHS: Always playing at full effort with his hair on fire. Above average toughness and is a smart rusher with awareness to follow the ball and close quickly on the ballcarrier. Strong inside move. With Notre Dame showing significantly more four-man fronts in 2013, Shembo played primarily in a three-point stance at defensive end for the Irish. He was somewhat quiet through the first five game, but registered three sacks against Arizona State on Oct. 12 to kick-start his season, which he finished with 46 tackles, 5.0 sacks, 5.0 tackles for loss, a forced fumbled and an astounding 17 quarterback hurries, the most by an Irish player since the stat started to be recorded in 2004.
The NFL is always on the lookout for pass rushers, and scouts will take note of Shembo's consistent production.

 

[casmith07]

Louis Nix got absolutely dominated by an Alabama offensive line that didn't even make it to the pros. No thanks.