How do you teach turnovers?

[cowboyed]

Turnovers have always been streaky opportunities. Not to say we can't become better at it. My biggest concern is run stopping defense and a partially porous secondary.

 

[Hadenough]

Clearly that’s been the #1 problem on defense for nearly 15 years it seems. Many different DCs/head coaches and players have come through and put up good sack numbers and points/yards per game but never the INTs.

How do other teams like the Patriots do it? Is it more on the scheme or players

The biggest problem with the Cowboys and getting turnovers is the idea that the team doesnt pay attention to details. They are thinking they are talented but they dont hone their talent to make it better. To me it doesnt even look like they practice the fundamentals. Defensively this team has a bunch of individuals out on the field, they dont always play like a team. They lack coaching mentally and physically.
People ask why are the Patriots so good all the time. Brady says they run hills at the end of every practice. Gronkowski says they practice no matter what the weather is. Belichick issues homework assignments every week on opponent and has pop quiz in Sat meeting. You miss question you dont play.
The study of opponent is how that CB for the Pats picked off the pass from Wilson in the SB. The formation tipped him off.

 

[Blackrain]

The biggest problem with the Cowboys and getting turnovers is the idea that the team doesnt pay attention to details. They are thinking they are talented but they dont hone their talent to make it better. To me it doesnt even look like they practice the fundamentals. Defensively this team has a bunch of individuals out on the field, they dont always play like a team. They lack coaching mentally and physically.
People ask why are the Patriots so good all the time. Brady says they run hills at the end of every practice. Gronkowski says they practice no matter what the weather is. Belichick issues homework assignments every week on opponent and has pop quiz in Sat meeting. You miss question you dont play.
The study of opponent is how that CB for the Pats picked off the pass from Wilson in the SB. The formation tipped him off.

Great post When you run the team like a rich old mans hobby hiring all your friends and family to do jobs they are not qualified to do you end up with 7 ints compared to double and triple in the Pats case that many for the teams that made the playoffs.
Most of The playoff teams have 800 to 900 yrds in penalties we have over a 1000 we lead the league in dropped passes and missed FG . This was a very poorly coached team and talent could not overcome it .

Even Jerry said coaching and football fundamentals were lacking . 3 players made progress in last off season the rest stayed the same or went horribly backwards . This team has been a collection of squandered talent only outdone by the BROWNS!!!

 

[CF74]

The db’s are taught to play the receiver and swat the ball out vs turning around to make a pick. This is part of Marinelli’s bend but don’t break defense. We also play 5-10 yds off the line very often, this is all Marinelli and it needs to stop...

The fix is to get new coaches that play to our teams strengths. Tank’s infamous, “Going Rogue” on the coin toss game showed us what worked. The db’s played it up close and pressed a little at the line, better results...

 

[glimmerman]

Turn and look for the ball.

 

[CB61]

Clearly that’s been the #1 problem on defense for nearly 15 years it seems. Many different DCs/head coaches and players have come through and put up good sack numbers and points/yards per game but never the INTs.

How do other teams like the Patriots do it? Is it more on the scheme or players

Well in my opinion the first thing I would teach is for the damn secondary to get their hands up and turn their head when they're covering a receiver and not play 10 yards off the freaking ball we've been doing that for years I thought with Richard coming that would change it did sort of at times but this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of playing 10 yards off Los ?? On a 3rd and 30 or 3 and 25 Maybe prevent defense Maybe? But we all know how our prevent defense turns out I can't count the number of times that I've seen our secondary be right there not turn around not look no hands up? Another thing is maybe they need to go Sue some wide receiver drills so they learn how to catch the damn ball is thrown right to them? They look like a bunch of circus clowns when the ball comes near them and no one else around

 

[Bcrav4]

I also think we miss a lot of opportunities on tipped passes. They never seem to be alert to the ball flipping in the air right in front of them.

I think that due to poor tackling and Marinelli’s penchant for gang tackling the players are so focused on tackling that they don’t focus on anything else, like interceptions.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Where they lack is INTs. And this is all about the scheme. When teams know that the defense is designed to take away the outside and deep but funnel everything inside teams are going to take the easiest pass in football vs a zone which is the slant. For one the middle is going to be open because the defense forcing you inside with the LBers in a zone. And two the rules help them out because teams are aware of the defenseless receiver foul. Every NFL team knows this about the Cowboys defense and they use it religiously.

This.

The defenseless receiver rule kills the "funnel them into the middle and keep them in front of you". That leaves you out of position to make a play on the ball. So you have to count on hitting. That funneling into the middle of the field gave you the chance to hit players. But now you can't. Blows the scheme.

Probably blows "Legion of Boom" scheme as well.

Blows any secondary scheme based on hitting.

Now you need guys who can play the ball. Exactly what we notoriously don't have.

 

[Alexander]

Clearly that’s been the #1 problem on defense for nearly 15 years it seems. Many different DCs/head coaches and players have come through and put up good sack numbers and points/yards per game but never the INTs.

How do other teams like the Patriots do it? Is it more on the scheme or players

It is both. But looking at the talent first is a big deal. If a player was not productive with takeaways in college, they probably are not going to do so as a pro with the game faster.

That means you look at the sheer production. If there is a ballhawk, you prioritize that over whatever other little trait you happen to like in a player. Instincts do matter. Thornhill was such a player, but we ignored that because he did not have long enough arms, enough speed or whatever hang up Richard had about him.

Another factor is the environment the player came from. Did that staff teach that player for several years that takeaways are important? Or did they come from a conservative defensive structure which stresses less player freedom and more smoke and mirrors to deceive?

The coaching staff needs to make getting takeaways a big part of the little practice time that is allotted.

Since you mentioned the Patriots:



I have little idea what the defensive coaches in Dallas have been trying to teach in camp since Garrett has been the coach, but it probably looks nothing like this.

It is also a mindset. You cannot drill into a player's head that they are to not make a mistake and give up a big play.

That just creates paralysis when there is an opportunity. They need to be thinking that the offense isn't going to just give up a turnover, that they have to take the ball away. Instead, it looks like our philosophy is to wait for the offense to hopefully make a mistake. Combine that hope as a strategy approach with every opponent's offensive goal to minimize turnovers, that is how you end up with a bottom of the league defense in terms of the metric.

You can take one look at Dallas' players and see how the risk-adverse behaviors are burned into them. The players have changed over the years and they are all good soldiers who are doing what they are taught. And we have seen the results.

To illustrate, here is a little quote from Marinelli which sums it all up:

"We just keep believing that they’re going to come. You don’t say, ‘Oh, we’ve got to get them.’ No, we believe they’re going to come. Just keep doing what we do.”

Yes, that is our defensive leader saying you have to just keep believing. You can't just try to go get them.

Well, when what you do is consistently not get them, there you can see a big part of the problem.

 

[CB61]

Well in my opinion the first thing I would teach is for the damn secondary to get their hands up and turn their head when they're covering a receiver and not play 10 yards off the freaking ball we've been doing that for years I thought with Richard coming that would change it did sort of at times but this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of playing 10 yards off Los ?? On a 3rd and 30 or 3 and 25 Maybe prevent defense Maybe? But we all know how our prevent defense turns out I can't count the number of times that I've seen our secondary be right there not turn around not look no hands up? Another thing is maybe they need to go Sue some wide receiver drills so they learn how to catch the damn ball is thrown right to them? They look like a bunch of circus clowns when the ball comes near them and no one else around

I also know Marinelli teaches them to swat the ball away rather than catch it but you got to have some common sense out there if you have a shot at picking it off go for it then if you can't knock it down oh, and there are times when the best thing to do is to knock it down but these guys don't seem to know the difference ? actually about anything to tell you the truth

 

[jnday]

Clearly that’s been the #1 problem on defense for nearly 15 years it seems. Many different DCs/head coaches and players have come through and put up good sack numbers and points/yards per game but never the INTs.

How do other teams like the Patriots do it? Is it more on the scheme or players

If you watch old practice tape from the Jimmy Johnson days, you will see how to improve turnovers. Johnson drilled his defense hard to teach them to cause turnovers on every play. A lot of it has to do unrelenting pressure to strip the ball. I have watched Garrett’s practices and I have never seen the team focus on turnovers.

 

[Alexander]

If you watch old practice tape from the Jimmy Johnson days, you will see how to improve turnovers. Johnson drilled his defense hard to teach them to cause turnovers on every play. A lot of it has to do unrelenting pressure to strip the ball. I have watched Garrett’s practices and I have never seen the team focus on turnovers.

To be fair, Johnson could also practice them hard and had the time to do so. Today's game does not afford that kind of practice time. That does not mean you can't make the time.

 

[Creeper]

The top 7 teams, 9 of the top 10 and 11 of the top 12 in turnover differential are in the playoffs. Only the Texans do not have a positive TO differential and made the playoffs. Dallas finished at -1 despite being tied for 7th in the fewest give-aways. I think turnover diff, is one stats the Cowboys need to improve to help the offense score more points and build momentum.

 

[Blackrain]

I swear its like the Cowboys follow the CBA to the letter and dont require the players to due anything more than necessary while the good teams figure some way around it so they can get better quality practice and study time to get ahead

 

[My3Sons]

Fire the entire defensive staff.

Lovie Smith took a bad Illinois team and led the nation in turnover defense.

 

[leeblair]

You can practice stripping the ball, but I'd much rather have solid tackling.
But you can teach both if you stress tackling first.
But the interceptions are different:
You need speed in your secondary-elite speed.
You need lighter, faster linebackers, so you have to have solid run stoppers on the defensive line.
Your pass rush has to come from your front four, and you can blitz from several different positions.
Teach your secondary an internal clock- knowing 3-4 seconds is the average time before a quarterback has to throw.
Know how many seconds a receiver takes to juke before committing to his route.
In the end, pass defense is basketball; cover without fouling.
And you must decide if you want a safety/safeties who can hit or who can close fast in passing.
Scheme, Speed, and Skill; the three steps in defensive turnovers.

 

[conner01]

Marinelli scheme is Marinelli scheme. It's designed to pressure the passer into making mistakes, and keeping all big plays in front of you, and not giving up the big play. Hence, bend but don't break.

It worked back in 1996 when you had guys like Jeff Blake, Bobby Hebert, Trent Dilfer, and Steve Bono throwing the football. But the past 20 years have been the golden age of NFL QB's and this system is antiquated and disgusting.

Exactly
Like our offense it required a win at every position on every play

 

[Cowboys22]

Clearly that’s been the #1 problem on defense for nearly 15 years it seems. Many different DCs/head coaches and players have come through and put up good sack numbers and points/yards per game but never the INTs.

How do other teams like the Patriots do it? Is it more on the scheme or players

It’s both and some other things as well. You can teach techniques to create turnovers like putting your, helmet on the ball when tackling, having DBs actually turn their head and find the ball, and having DEs swop at the ball before trying to tackle the QB. Obviously, skilled players who have an aggressive mindset will help but scheme is hugely important. Players have to be around the ball in order to cause and/or recover fumbles, intercept poor passes and/or tipped balls, or take advantage of other opportunities. Schemes that have players back off into zones and simply guard grassy areas instead of players have a hard time creating turnovers. They have to wait until they get lucky or rely on the other team just making a mistake.

 

[Redline360]

Marinelli scheme is Marinelli scheme. It's designed to pressure the passer into making mistakes, and keeping all big plays in front of you, and not giving up the big play. Hence, bend but don't break.

It worked back in 1996 when you had guys like Jeff Blake, Bobby Hebert, Trent Dilfer, and Steve Bono throwing the football. But the past 20 years have been the golden age of NFL QB's and this system is antiquated and disgusting.

Exactly

The league is now quarterback friendly where they know flags will come on close plays with them. Throw into the fact that quarterbacks all learn quick releases and that plays are designed to such.

Failed to adapt to the changes

 

[ItzKelz]

Scheme helps the talent. We have plenty of talent on defense but if the defensive back coaches scheme is to bat the ball down; how can we be mad at the player for executing those orders?