How long will it take to put this defense together?

[Galian Beast]

I don't know... to me Spencer isn't quite the same thing. He was a good player for Dallas who was coming off of injury and was willing to take a very small incentive based contract... the "for Dallas" part is the key IMO.

I mean, I'm not ruling it out, I just don't see it as very likely. Just go back and look at all of the older players they've signed in free agency. Without looking it up, Spencer could be the only one that could even fit that description... and he's still younger than Tillman by a stretch.

He was never a good player for Marinelli, which matters more than being a good player for Dallas. That is the key to me.

 

[AsthmaField]

He was never a good player for Marinelli, which matters more than being a good player for Dallas. That is the key to me.

We shall see. If you had to put a percentage on how likely Tillman to Dallas is, what would you pick?

 

[TellerMorrow34]

It'll take a couple good offseasons to make the defense truly special but I think the defense could be much improved next year with an offseason dedicated pretty much to the defense.

 

[xwalker]

I wonder if we'll sign Tillman to a 2 or 3 year deal next year. I wouldn't be surprised if that happens. He's a free agent, he loves Rod Marinelli to death, and he is a free agent next year on a team that is in decline.

It would need to be a situation where they're not counting on him to start.

 

[Galian Beast]

We shall see. If you had to put a percentage on how likely Tillman to Dallas is, what would you pick?

40 percent

 

[AsthmaField]

40 percent

Thanks man...

 

[Galian Beast]

It would need to be a situation where they're not counting on him to start.

I think you bring him in to start, but you also move forward with plans to upgrade the situation, such as drafting a corner in the first two rounds of the draft.

You bring in Tillman, draft a corner early, have Carr take a pay cut down to 2 million, and this secondary should be significantly upgraded, especially if Carr can adjust and return to the form we've seen him play upto before. You can also hope for a better Claiborne, but then the next year you bring in another rookie cornerback. Now you've reshaped the entire starting secondary at the cornerback position.

So it isn't about relying on Tillman, but bringing in a guy that can definitely help you and help bring up young guys.

 

[xwalker]

I think you bring him in to start, but you also move forward with plans to upgrade the situation, such as drafting a corner in the first two rounds of the draft.

You bring in Tillman, draft a corner early, have Carr take a pay cut down to 2 million, and this secondary should be significantly upgraded, especially if Carr can adjust and return to the form we've seen him play upto before. You can also hope for a better Claiborne, but then the next year you bring in another rookie cornerback. Now you've reshaped the entire starting secondary at the cornerback position.

So it isn't about relying on Tillman, but bringing in a guy that can definitely help you and help bring up young guys.

I think you're saying the same thing as I am. If they keep Carr and draft a CB early then they're not totally relying on him to start.

My point is that if they cut Carr and only draft a late round CB, then that would be asking for problems.

When Free agreed to a pay cut, I think they basically guaranteed him a starting spot. I don't think Carr will take the pay cut if he thinks he will be a backup.

 

[Galian Beast]

I think you're saying the same thing as I am. If they keep Carr and draft a CB early then they're not totally relying on him to start.

My point is that if they cut Carr and only draft a late round CB, then that would be asking for problems.

When Free agreed to a pay cut, I think they basically guaranteed him a starting spot. I don't think Carr will take the pay cut if he thinks he will be a backup.

I think he will, I don't think anyone is going to give Carr starting money at this point.

 

[DC Cowboy]

The front office is going to need to dedicate the next 2-3 drafts towards building this defense.

The keys that help us

1. Getting lucky with free agents. Henry Melton and Rolando McClain probably bring the timetable up two whole years. Theyre basically first round quality players.

2. Hitting on Anthony Hitchens and Tyrone Crawford. I was skeptical that Crawford would find a role in this defense because they kept moving him around. With an entire offseason dedicated towards being a defensive tackle, I think he is going to flourish next year. Anthony Hitchens has been a pleasant surprise, and he will thrive as the strong side linebacker next year next to Lee and McClain.

3. Marinelli seems to be able to really develop people and get the best out of them.

The keys that hurt us

1. Sean Lee not being able to stay healthy. With Lee and McClain together, we'll have two of the best linebackers in the NFL on the field at once. That is going to take our defense to the next level, but that can only happen if Lee can stay healthy, something he hasn't been able to do at all. I hope the staff take things easy with him AND McClain next offseason.

2. Missing on draft picks. Missing on Claiborne and Carter really hurts this team. These two picks probably set us back as much as signing Melton and McClain brought us forward.

3. Overpaying Brandon Carr. This definitely sets us back, and will continue to set us back. The damage done by paying him so much might have been worse than the Claiborne pick.

4. Drafting Gavin Escobar, Joseph Randle, and Devin Street. These were picks that probably could have helped the defense a lot more than theyve helped the offense. The defense desperately needs better depth and better starters, and were still drafting guys who cant get playing time on the offense. I was excited about drafting Escobar, and still think he is a hell of a player, but if they cant commit to using these guys, help the defense instead.

The in between

1. Dead Money. We've got about 20 million dollars in dead money from the defense alone this year.

To put that into perspective, our defensive salary this year is about 35 million dollars....

Why didn't I put this in the bad category? Well it certainly is bad, but the silver lining here is that the dead money for next year is only 7.8 million dollars and thats pretty much all offense from Austin and Orton. I expect Carr to add towards that, but maybe something could be worked out. I think it would be best for him to drop down to 2 million in base salary for 2015 and 2016. This would get us back 13 million dollars, and Id rather have him at 2 million than to cut him and take the full impact of his dead money, and still have to upgrade and replace him. Id rather save the money, and demote him down one or two spots.

Glaring needs

Defensive End. Maybe Lawrence can be a full time starter (Within the rotation) next year, but if Mincey is starting, its not a good thing for us. Mincey should be a depth player, not our best defensive end. The goal here should be to push Mincey into a depth role or even better off the roster by adding players who are better than he is. Sevlie should definitely be gone, and so should Spencer. We need a first or second round draft pick here. Preferably a 1st. The problem is the deeper we go into the playoffs, the more difficult it will be to get an impact player here.

Which brings me to the next thing

Cornerback. I like Sterling Moore, but the guy is a 4th corner. Next year I would like to see this

CB1 - Draft/Free Agency
CB2 - Orlando Scandrick
CB3 - Brandon Carr
CB4 - Sterling Moore
CB5 - Morris Claiborne

In 2016

CB1 - Draft/Free Agency
CB2 - Draft/Free Agency
CB3 - Orlando Scandrick
CB4 - Brandon Carr
CB5 - Sterling Moore

Over the course of the next two drafts we'll have

Two first round draft picks, two second round draft picks, and two third round draft picks.

That is six "Day 1" picks.

We need to come away with two corners, two or three defensive linemen, a right tackle, and a WR if we only need two defensive linemen.

It'll be difficult to maneuver in free agency with the players we already need to sign. And focusing so much on our defense will make things very difficult for our offense soon, but we really have no choice.

I still hope this defense can improve this year, I was hoping with all these players coming back on the defensive line they'd get better, but our secondary seems to have regressed in the meantime. It'll be a challenge to balance resources towards the front end and the back end going forward, but that will be the key to turning this defense around. I have to have faith that Marinelli knows what this defense needs, and will be in position to get whatever he needs going forward. I am dismayed that more effort wasn't put in over the last two years to get this defense to improve.

Edit, Mod can you fix the title for me

one good draft next year. I really think we should bring in Shaun Phillips who was cut by Tenn.

 

[DandyDon1722]

It'll take a couple good offseasons to make the defense truly special but I think the defense could be much improved next year with an offseason dedicated pretty much to the defense.

Agree. I'm starting to get nervous as there are some cracks in the wall beginning to show. We've slipped to 31 in Red Zone defense only behind the Colts and we gave up 5.9 yards a play against the Giants. Maybe we can hang on by a thread and hope the offense pulls some games out but I'm preparing myself that for as fun as it's been so far this season - it's not our time...yet.

 

[Picksix]

Carter might not be a complete bust yet, but I don't think he has a future in Dallas. I'd love to be wrong about that though.

I think that's a good point regarding Carter. He's not a bad player per se, just inconsistent and doesn't seem to earn the coaches favor at times. Given the fact that there are a lot of guys to get signed, they can't bring them all back, and I think he eventually finds the door. That said, he was the other LB along with McClain on the Giants' last drive on Sunday.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Agree. I'm starting to get nervous as there are some cracks in the wall beginning to show. We've slipped to 31 in Red Zone defense only behind the Colts and we gave up 5.9 yards a play against the Giants. Maybe we can hang on by a thread and hope the offense pulls some games out but I'm preparing myself that for as fun as it's been so far this season - it's not our time...yet.

Nah we're at least a year away from being a serious contender to a championship. This year has been so fun so far but it's not going to be a championship run yet.

 

[DC Cowboy]

It would be nice if Wilcox pans out because finding a good safety in the draft requires a 1st or 2nd round pick. If he does then we can use those premium picks towards a pass rusher, cornerback, or a running back if we can't resign Murray.

Wilcox is better than he was last year, he just need to continue on that path of improving each year. Remember this is only his 3rd year a safety.

 

[blindzebra]

We need a player at all 3 levels.

I see a DL that is solid at DT if we re-sign Melton, but DE needs help.

I can see our starting LBs as SLB Hitchens, MLB McClain, WLB Lee...I can see us keeping Durant or Carter and having Hitchens as the do all 3 spots guy too, but we need to draft a player here, maybe two just for depth if nothing else.

I can see us standing pat in the secondary, but I'd invest in a CB in the 2nd or 3rd round and a hybrid guy that can play either corner or safety late.

As for FA, I think we concentrate on keeping our own guys over looking outside, and if we do grab a FA it will be the Walmart level guys like we have been doing.

 

[DC Cowboy]

also keep in mind CB play would be improved by a better pass rush.

 

[xwalker]

I think he will, I don't think anyone is going to give Carr starting money at this point.

He has already made a ton of money so I would expect the scheme and likelyhood of starting being really important. Most people believe he was better in a scheme like the Rob Ryan scheme.

 

[JohnsKey19]

I am not convinced Carter is a bust yet. He was a beast two years ago. Claiborne? Now there's a bust.

Carter is not a bust. He's just wildly inconsistent. He was arguably the best player on defense against probably the toughest opponent for an opposing LB, and that was New Orleans. He got injured and has been silent since returning. He's probably going to be the odd man out next season.

Ideally you have some solid YOUNG building blocks in McClain and Crawford up front. Lawrence may not be the double digit sack-master we hoped for(or maybe he will) but he at least will be a very good rotational DE. Hitchens looks like a solid(at least) starting LB. Wilcox IMO at least has proven himself as a solid young starting S. Then you sprinkle in the vets like Sean Lee, Melton and Scandrick - all good players. Can't forget Church who is a solid vet. That's 9 players and a pretty good starting point when trying to fill out an active gameday defensive roster of 20-22 players. The draft will add at least 4 defensive players, hopefully 2 starters. Then maybe they go after 1-2 starting players in FA. Depending on how well they hit on players in the draft, we're not all that far away from fielding a consistently decent unit with room to improve. Obviously the key position of need is pass rushing DE(s).

 

[Galian Beast]

one good draft next year. I really think we should bring in Shaun Phillips who was cut by Tenn.

I would certainly like to see the team investigate Shaun Phillips. My guess is that he would be better than Selvie, but maybe I'm wrong in thinking that. At this point they should be bringing him in and seeing what they can get out of him.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Where are we good?

LBer: Can be something special next year. We need to lock up McClain and bring back Durant. Next year will be Lee's last chance to prove he can stay healthy. But it's scary thinking of McClain-Lee-Durant/Hitchens on the field at the same time.

3-tech: Looks pretty good if we bring back Melton. This was our biggest concern going into the season but has been our best position this year. Melton and Crawford are a great duo and both play on the field at the same time in the nickel.

1-tech: They seem to like Hayden but we do need to look to improve. I'm not sold on Brent coming in and being our savior. Fortunately it's an easier position to fill. If Brent doesn't show something during the offseason, we should address this in free agency.

DE: Both ends are a major issue right now. I don't see either SDE back next season. Selvie is a JAG and Spencer is done. I've been impressed with Mincey and we still have to see what we have in Lawrence. It's not clear who's a WDE and who's a SDE yet. We need to add at least two legitimate DEs next year (via 1st round pick or free agency) and see who fits best where. DE is by far our biggest area of need. The only guys on the roster I see here next year are Mincey and Lawrence and I'm not convinced either of them is a starter.

CB: Scandrick is great. Always has been. He's one of the better CBs in the league. Outside of him we don't have much. Moore is a decent 4th corner. I think Carr can be a decent corner but he shouldn't be covering elite WRs. Claiborne has one last chance to prove himself next year. I think we need to bring in a veteran. I don't trust a 1st rounder will come in and be a star. CB is one of the toughest positions for rookies. And we haven't struck gold on our past two 1st round corners. We need to find our Brent Grimes. The Dolphins signed him as a 30 year old free agent and he's been one of the best corners in the league.

Safety: I think a ball hawk FS would do more for the secondary than a couple of stud corners. I don't think our corners are horrible. They'd look a lot better if the DEs could rush the passer and there was a ball hawk FS roaming the area. That's why I don't want to see us dropping any 1st rounders on a CB. For one, I don't trust young CBs. And two, I think stud DEs and a stud FS would make our corners look a lot better than they really are.

-------------------------------------

Summary: I think we're set at LB and 3-tech if we bring back McClain and Melton (assuming Lee comes back and stays healthy). We need a 1-tech who can command double teams, but it isn't an area you'd spend a high pick or drop big money on. Let's see how Brent does in the offseason, and let's sign a veteran if we need to. We need some CBs but I don't trust rookie CBs. And there's a high bust ratio for 1st round CBs. I think one solid veteran (like what Miami got with Brent Grimes) would be good. Last but not least, we need to address DE hard (Selvie and Spencer must go) via high draft picks and possibly big name free agents. Also, if a stud ball hawk FS is sitting there in the draft, you take him. A ball hawk FS and some DEs who can pass rush would make our CBs look a lot better than they are.