How many Cowboys are in the top 5 in the game at their position?
- Thread starter Baileyneverfailey
- Start date
sonnyboy
Benched
- Messages
- 7,357
- Reaction score
- 0
This is one of my favorite excercises. It really helps determin how close to SB ready you are.
I like to break it down top5 and top10. Top5 are lock Pro-bowl guys, perhaps All-pro quality. Top10 are just on the cusp of a pro-bowl invite.
The real trick is to look at how the guy is actually playing now without much regard to the "skins" on the wall.
Top5 (RED CHIP):
Romo
Ware
Ratliff
Witten
Austin
Guroude
Top10 (BLUE CHIP):
Jenkins
Spencer
Newman
Sensabaugh
Davis
Adams
Jones F.
Guess I'm a homer, but that's how I see it. I also think Columbo, Koiser, James and Brookings are above average for sure.
I like to break it down top5 and top10. Top5 are lock Pro-bowl guys, perhaps All-pro quality. Top10 are just on the cusp of a pro-bowl invite.
The real trick is to look at how the guy is actually playing now without much regard to the "skins" on the wall.
Top5 (RED CHIP):
Romo
Ware
Ratliff
Witten
Austin
Guroude
Top10 (BLUE CHIP):
Jenkins
Spencer
Newman
Sensabaugh
Davis
Adams
Jones F.
Guess I'm a homer, but that's how I see it. I also think Columbo, Koiser, James and Brookings are above average for sure.
thechosen1n2
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 2,237
- Reaction score
- 538
Joshmvii;3229065 said:Obviously it's impossible for fans of a team to be fully objective, but these are the guys I believe are one of the top 5 best players at their position, in all of Football.
QB: Tony Romo - This one is questionable if only because the level of QB talent in the game right now is obscene, but there aren't 5 other guys I'd take over him.
WR: Miles Austin - One season does not a career make, but the numbers don't lie.
TE: Jason Witten - No explanation required.
DT: Jay Ratliff - No explanation required.
OLB: Demarcus Ware - No explanation required.
CB: Mike Jenkins - There aren't 5 other guys I'd take over him. I'm not sure after what he's shown this year that there is a single guy I'd rather have at this position.
S: Gerald Sensabaugh - I know the stats don't point to any kind of dominance from Sensabaugh at the safety position, but I don't think it's a coincidence that his arrival marked the first time in years we basically haven't even had to think about getting beaten deep, and we suddenly started being able to blitz and play man outside more. Not a lot of picks, but that is probably due to the fact that teams couldn't throw it downfield on us, and he had a cast on that cost him a couple.
Other guys who I want to put on here but won't because I feel my homer goggles are influencing the decision and I don't know enough young O-Linemen across the league to judge them - Flozell, Gurode, Davis.
My point is, I just think this team is flat out more talented than most teams out there, and more importantly, unlike the 'super talented' 2007 team, they're playing as a team and we're seeing the results.
I'd love to hear some thoughts about other guys you fellow zoners feel are top 5 guys, or if you disagree with any of my picks.
bro austin and sense are not top 5, and romo is at the cusp where its arguable.
Cowboy Brian
@BrianLINY
- Messages
- 15,864
- Reaction score
- 5,053
Romo
Witten
Ratliff
Ware
McBriar
Austin
Gurode
Davis
Case for:
Jenkins
Sensabaugh
This is not about who had a great season last year, it is how they played this year. So don't quote me and say "HOMER"
Witten
Ratliff
Ware
McBriar
Austin
Gurode
Davis
Case for:
Jenkins
Sensabaugh
This is not about who had a great season last year, it is how they played this year. So don't quote me and say "HOMER"
Baileyneverfailey
Joshmvii
- Messages
- 3,013
- Reaction score
- 586
thechosen1n2;3229758 said:
Andre Johnson is the only receiver in the league who had a better all around season than Miles this year, and Miles didn't even start the whole season. People thought I was crazy in August when I said Miles was going to score 10 TDs this year too.
Write it down, Miles is in the top 5 in all receiving categories(Receptions, yards, TDs, YPC) next year.
Cowboy Brian
@BrianLINY
- Messages
- 15,864
- Reaction score
- 5,053
Joshmvii;3229843 said:
Hes in top 5 in all those beside Receptions this year!
Baileyneverfailey
Joshmvii
- Messages
- 3,013
- Reaction score
- 586
Exactly, which is why it's laughable for people to say he's not one of the top 5 receivers in the game this year. Obviously he has to do it for more than one season to cement a position up there, but so far he's been starting for most of one season, and for that time period, top 5 receiver. No denying it.
Dodger
Indomitable
- Messages
- 4,216
- Reaction score
- 43
I'd like to put Romo and Austin on that list, but I'm looking at this from a career standpoint, and Austin is just getting started. As for Romo, well, he's right there with some of the best. I just think guys like Manning, Warner, Favre, Brees, Brady, and maybe Rivers are just above him, though I don't expect that to last much longer.Joshmvii;3229640 said:
DIAF
DivaLover159
- Messages
- 4,768
- Reaction score
- 874
A good way to answer the question re: Austin is to ask yourself...
Considering ability only, would you rather have Miles over....
Larry Fitzgerald?
Andre Johnson?
Calvin Johnson?
Reggie Wayne?
Marquez Colston?
Randy Moss?
Brandon Marshall?
Roddy White?
Anquan Boldin?
You'd be hard-pressed to answer "YES" to more than 5 of those. I'd put Austin into the same category as Sidney Rice and Desean Jackson. "Need more info"
Considering ability only, would you rather have Miles over....
Larry Fitzgerald?
Andre Johnson?
Calvin Johnson?
Reggie Wayne?
Marquez Colston?
Randy Moss?
Brandon Marshall?
Roddy White?
Anquan Boldin?
You'd be hard-pressed to answer "YES" to more than 5 of those. I'd put Austin into the same category as Sidney Rice and Desean Jackson. "Need more info"
VThokie7
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 2,065
- Reaction score
- 506
Definite
Witten
Ratliff
Ware
McBriar
Debatable
Romo - Win 3 more games this year and I think he'll move up to the definite category. With that said there are not 5 QBs I take over Romo.
Gurode - I think he is top 5, but lineman can create a pretty big debate. Not many have time to watch every single Center for more than one game a season, so very subjective coming from fans
Davis - Same thing as Gurode
Austin - I think Austin could slip in, but I think the experts are still going to bring up Wayne, Fitz, A. Johnson, and Welker.
Witten
Ratliff
Ware
McBriar
Debatable
Romo - Win 3 more games this year and I think he'll move up to the definite category. With that said there are not 5 QBs I take over Romo.
Gurode - I think he is top 5, but lineman can create a pretty big debate. Not many have time to watch every single Center for more than one game a season, so very subjective coming from fans
Davis - Same thing as Gurode
Austin - I think Austin could slip in, but I think the experts are still going to bring up Wayne, Fitz, A. Johnson, and Welker.
GalvestonCowboyFan
Member
- Messages
- 147
- Reaction score
- 0
meehh... I think Miles is a pretty sure-fire top 5, especially if the question is who would you rather have on your team at wideout because of a combination of all the factors.... age, attitude, consistency, talent, production, proclivity for getting suspended, etc.
But even if this is just a question of who is better on the field today, he is right at no. 4-5. I think at this point he is a hair better on the field all-around than Chad Johnson, Calvin Johnson, DJax, Bowe, S. Smith, R. Moss or Welker, who are the most legitimate challengers to the numbers 4 or 5 in that category, because he really isn't ever shut down and those guys do either get schemed out or have limitations in their game (Welker and Smith). I'd put him and VJax ina tie for 4th because Wayne, Marshall, and A. Johnson are all at least a notch above Miles on the field right now. If anything, the numbers are misleading against Miles, because he wasn't featured until several weeks in to this season.
That said, I think Miles might move into 3rd if the question is "who do I wish was on my time at wideout?" because Marshall (boneheadedness) and Wayne (age) have factors that put them a slot or two down the list and Miles in addition to his relative youth and intangibles just doesn't have any glaring holes in his game, which is remarkable and surprising, but true--he's proven it now against good and bad cb's and over enough games to convince me. So, my top 5 on the field right now:
1 A Johnson
2 Marshall
3 Wayne
4/5 VJax/Austin
My top 8 I'd want on a roster at wideout:
1. A Johnson
2. Austin
3. VJax
4. DJax
5. Wayne
6. Marshall
7. C. Johnson
8. Bowe
No question about it, Miles is top 5, IMO, although he isn't tops on the list by any stretch. If you factor in return ability, DJax probably jumps to number 2 on the bottom list and bumps the rest down a notch, but Miles is still top 5 easily.
Jenkins is similar, but I'm not sure he's top 5 yet. Maybe, maybe not. Revis, Woodson, and Asomugha, IMO, are way, way better at this point. Nnamdi is limited by coaching and personell around him but that can't be held against him. If we're making a list of people we'd want on our roster at CB, Jenkins probably moves up the list somewhat, possibly into the 5 slot, because of Woodson and Bailey's age. I'm really not that sure about this though... Jenkins could still be more of a flash in the pan or inconsistent player (like Newman tends to be)... CB's seem to do this a lot (think of Scandrick and Webster last year, or Cromartie the year before, for example). However, he's so young that it's pretty dang likely that he really is this good and he's just learning the position and can maintain this level of play in the future. I guess time will tell. His ceiling is top 5 for sure, though.
I think, regarding the other guys, that jterrel has it exactly right...
But even if this is just a question of who is better on the field today, he is right at no. 4-5. I think at this point he is a hair better on the field all-around than Chad Johnson, Calvin Johnson, DJax, Bowe, S. Smith, R. Moss or Welker, who are the most legitimate challengers to the numbers 4 or 5 in that category, because he really isn't ever shut down and those guys do either get schemed out or have limitations in their game (Welker and Smith). I'd put him and VJax ina tie for 4th because Wayne, Marshall, and A. Johnson are all at least a notch above Miles on the field right now. If anything, the numbers are misleading against Miles, because he wasn't featured until several weeks in to this season.
That said, I think Miles might move into 3rd if the question is "who do I wish was on my time at wideout?" because Marshall (boneheadedness) and Wayne (age) have factors that put them a slot or two down the list and Miles in addition to his relative youth and intangibles just doesn't have any glaring holes in his game, which is remarkable and surprising, but true--he's proven it now against good and bad cb's and over enough games to convince me. So, my top 5 on the field right now:
1 A Johnson
2 Marshall
3 Wayne
4/5 VJax/Austin
My top 8 I'd want on a roster at wideout:
1. A Johnson
2. Austin
3. VJax
4. DJax
5. Wayne
6. Marshall
7. C. Johnson
8. Bowe
No question about it, Miles is top 5, IMO, although he isn't tops on the list by any stretch. If you factor in return ability, DJax probably jumps to number 2 on the bottom list and bumps the rest down a notch, but Miles is still top 5 easily.
Jenkins is similar, but I'm not sure he's top 5 yet. Maybe, maybe not. Revis, Woodson, and Asomugha, IMO, are way, way better at this point. Nnamdi is limited by coaching and personell around him but that can't be held against him. If we're making a list of people we'd want on our roster at CB, Jenkins probably moves up the list somewhat, possibly into the 5 slot, because of Woodson and Bailey's age. I'm really not that sure about this though... Jenkins could still be more of a flash in the pan or inconsistent player (like Newman tends to be)... CB's seem to do this a lot (think of Scandrick and Webster last year, or Cromartie the year before, for example). However, he's so young that it's pretty dang likely that he really is this good and he's just learning the position and can maintain this level of play in the future. I guess time will tell. His ceiling is top 5 for sure, though.
I think, regarding the other guys, that jterrel has it exactly right...
Cowboy Brian
@BrianLINY
- Messages
- 15,864
- Reaction score
- 5,053
Teague31;3229987 said:
How'd I forget.
Please, Child PLEEEZZ on this thread, this is not about what someone did 5 seasons ago, I don't give a flying **** that Brady won a super bowl 6 years ago.
The BEST mindset is "The last play doesn't matter, the next is the one the most important in the game"
Their is 1 WR in the NFL with a better season than Miles Austin, another from Texas, Andre Johnson. You can debate all you want but ESPN-loveboys Reggie Wayne and Larry Fitzgerald DID NOT.
Answering a question, UNBIASED, based on production this year.
Larry Fitzgerald? Not even close, Miles by a Mile.
Andre Johnson? Andre started 16 games, Miles started 11, Miles Austin had 220 less yards. Miles Austin.
Calvin Johnson? Miles.
Reggie Wayne? Miles
Marquez Colston? I take both steve smiths over him? Why put him here? You also forgot Vincent Jackson who is better than Colston.
Randy Moss? Miles.
Brandon Marshall? Miles
Roddy White? Miles
Anquan Boldin? LOL??? Miles
There you go, based on Production this year there are two WRS that come close to Miles: Wes Welker & Andre Johnson, you want to make the argument miles is not in the top 5 then you better not say "one year does not make a career" because it doesn't but one year is all that matters for our quest to Super Bowl 44.
This season
Romo
Witten
Ratliff
Ware
McBriar
Austin
Gurode
Davis
Buehler
Case for:
Jenkins
Sensabaugh
Anthony Spencer(Small case but you can make it, if he produced as he did in the latter half of the season for all 16 weeks than he would be in the above category)
GalvestonCowboyFan
Member
- Messages
- 147
- Reaction score
- 0
somehow I misspelled "team" as "time." hmmm
GalvestonCowboyFan
Member
- Messages
- 147
- Reaction score
- 0
and, holy crap, I left out fitz. Argh. Put him at the top of all my lists. I knew I left off somebody. Doh!
Baileyneverfailey
Joshmvii
- Messages
- 3,013
- Reaction score
- 586
DIAF;3229935 said:
Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald would be maybe, the rest of them would be an instant YES. I am not going to go through the reasons I would rather have Miles than the rest of the list, as they are varied and numerous, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe Miles is going anywhere but up. He is going to be in the same offense, with the same QB for years to come.