How Much Did We Improve on Defense?

[Jarntt]

Compared to last year, how much did we improve?

If we have Christian Parker last year, we win at least two more games. Just on coaching alone.

We also got Gary, Lawrence, Ezeiruaku more experienced, Quinnen, Kenny Clark, Caleb Downs? Who even does that? We also got Overton, Barham, Jalen Thompson, Dee Winters, Overshown is coming back, we picked up Cobie Durant. And we have guys like Bell and Reddy.

Pinch me. I was ready to give up last year. This is looking like a new team.

And that's a good thing.

Maybe it's not yet complete, but that is indeed one heck of a rebuild.

Anyone sense one more trade coming before the season starts?

I do.

I give the off-season rebuild a solid A.

I think we improved a lot but we have to remember that we aren't just trying to go from bad to good we are trying to go from horrendous and historically bad to good or perhaps just to average. The leap is massive.
On your additions:

We all are excited about CP and see him as a massive upgrade, but in reality he has never done the job before so even though everything we hear and read and see is fantastic, we still need to see this play out.
DE: Gary is a pure add. Lawrence has never put on an NFL uniform and EZ is coming off surgery and may or may not improve (I'm a big EZ fan but time will tell)
DT: both guys you mention were here last year and one for the full season so not part of the offseason upgrade
Downs? Massive add. Yes, also has never put on an NFL uniform but I think his value is a little more certain
Overton and Barham? May not play all that much this year or may have a big role. I lean towards backend of the rotation for both and don't expect much year 1
Winters, Thompson and Durant all NFL caliber players. Thompson is a really good player. The other two are less a sure thing. Durant probably best as a #3 or 4 guy on the depth chart and Winters was really good last year but probably a little below average as a starting ILBer.

So yeah, great offseason and I'm with you on the A grade, but does an A grade take us to even NFL average? I'm not so sure unless Revel proves to be an NFL caliber CB and Bland shows us he is more the guy from prior years than he is the 2025 version. Our biggest weaknesses are a consistent pass rush, CB play and ILBer play. I'm not saying we will be bad in all of those areas or even in any of them. I'm just saying we really aren't sure about any of them YET and they likely will be the 3 things that answer your question of: "How Much Did We Improve on Defense?"

 

[kskboys]

I think we improved a lot but we have to remember that we aren't just trying to go from bad to good we are trying to go from horrendous and historically bad to good or perhaps just to average. The leap is massive.
On your additions:

We all are excited about CP and see him as a massive upgrade, but in reality he has never done the job before so even though everything we hear and read and see is fantastic, we still need to see this play out.
DE: Gary is a pure add. Lawrence has never put on an NFL uniform and EZ is coming off surgery and may or may not improve (I'm a big EZ fan but time will tell)
DT: both guys you mention were here last year and one for the full season so not part of the offseason upgrade
Downs? Massive add. Yes, also has never put on an NFL uniform but I think his value is a little more certain
Overton and Barham? May not play all that much this year or may have a big role. I lean towards backend of the rotation for both and don't expect much year 1
Winters, Thompson and Durant all NFL caliber players. Thompson is a really good player. The other two are less a sure thing. Durant probably best as a #3 or 4 guy on the depth chart and Winters was really good last year but probably a little below average as a starting ILBer.

So yeah, great offseason and I'm with you on the A grade, but does an A grade take us to even NFL average? I'm not so sure unless Revel proves to be an NFL caliber CB and Bland shows us he is more the guy from prior years than he is the 2025 version. Our biggest weaknesses are a consistent pass rush, CB play and ILBer play. I'm not saying we will be bad in all of those areas or even in any of them. I'm just saying we really aren't sure about any of them YET and they likely will be the 3 things that answer your question of: "How Much Did We Improve on Defense?"

You forgot Ogboner, a noted run stopper, and Bullocks.

Since they were added to a very bad D, I have to disagree and call them part of the offseason upgrades.

 

[Stash]

Asst HC of D for SF. Got a job immediately.

Not a defensive coordinator.

Got it.

This agenda to prop up an absolute failure in Eberflus is baffling.

Are you two related?

 

[kskboys]

Not a defensive coordinator.

Got it.

This agenda to prop up an absolute failure in Eberflus is baffling.

Are you two related?

Actually, I'm not. Don't care about Eber, barely know who he is.

The agenda to name a scapegoat for a D that completely lacked talent is even more baffling.

Are you related to Kenneth Murray?

 

[Stash]

Actually, I'm not. Don't care about Eber, barely know who he is.

The agenda to name a scapegoat for a D that completely lacked talent is even more baffling.

Are you related to Kenneth Murray?

It’s not either/or for me the way it clearly is for you.

It’s not either coaching or players, it’s both.

That’s the difference between us.

I’m not making excuses for anyone.

 

[kskboys]

It’s not either/or for me the way it clearly is for you.

It’s not either coaching or players, it’s both.

That’s the difference between us.

I’m not making excuses for anyone.

That is exactly what I was thinking about you!!!!!!

So, honest question, if it's both as you are saying(and I agree), then why so many posts blaming Eber?

Last year's D was one of the most untalented units I've ever seen in my life. As I've stated before, I am not an Eber fan. However, there's not a DC in history that couldn't gotten that collection of numbnuts on D higher than 25th. There's not a thing anyone could've done to make that unit anywhere near viable. So, I have no idea what Eber is, but what I do know is that he never had a chances. We took the 28th ranked D from 2024 and got rid of it's 2 best players in Parsons and DLaw. What in tarnation did anyone thing was going to happen?

That's the difference between us. I see it as both. I'm not making excuses for anyone either, not Eber, not anyone. I am simply observing that we had no talent to work w/. Adjustments? What, you going to tell Murray to stop going the wrong direction and Diggs and Bland to stop letting injuries affect them?

I'm curious. Why did you assign me as a polarizer? I've never been that way, and I've never said Eber was great. However, looking at the facts, he appears to be viable, w/ a top 10 D 3 of 4 years in INDY. Yes, he sucked as a HC, far from the first coordinator to do so. So, why your proclamation that I am "clearly" blaming only one side? I am honestly curious where you came up w/ that.

 

[LouBrown]

Are you talking about before the Q trade?

And basically, we couldn't stop the run last season. Ogboner is a noted run stopper, huge upgrade.

No.

Pass defense was worse. He doesn't give you anything clark doesn't already.

 

[Jarntt]

You forgot Ogboner, a noted run stopper, and Bullocks.

Since they were added to a very bad D, I have to disagree and call them part of the offseason upgrades.

I was discussing the players he mentioned. I think Ogbonnia and Bullard will make a decent rotation alongside Q and Clark but who do you compare them to? Way below NFL average, but way better than Toia and some guys who rotated in last year so an upgrade if the comparison is them from last year for sure. Better than Osa, no way. Thomas, probably not. But better fits for this defense, yes, by far, and that's what matters.

 

[Stash]

That is exactly what I was thinking about you!!!!!!

So, honest question, if it's both as you are saying(and I agree), then why so many posts blaming Eber?

Last year's D was one of the most untalented units I've ever seen in my life. As I've stated before, I am not an Eber fan. However, there's not a DC in history that couldn't gotten that collection of numbnuts on D higher than 25th. There's not a thing anyone could've done to make that unit anywhere near viable. So, I have no idea what Eber is, but what I do know is that he never had a chances. We took the 28th ranked D from 2024 and got rid of it's 2 best players in Parsons and DLaw. What in tarnation did anyone thing was going to happen?

That's the difference between us. I see it as both. I'm not making excuses for anyone either, not Eber, not anyone. I am simply observing that we had no talent to work w/. Adjustments? What, you going to tell Murray to stop going the wrong direction and Diggs and Bland to stop letting injuries affect them?

Who brought Murray in? Eberflus did.

Who brought Sanborn in? Eberflus did.

Who brought Elam in? Eberflus did.

But you give him a pass.

I'm curious. Why did you assign me as a polarizer? I've never been that way, and I've never said Eber was great. However, looking at the facts, he appears to be viable, w/ a top 10 D 3 of 4 years in INDY. Yes, he sucked as a HC, far from the first coordinator to do so. So, why your proclamation that I am "clearly" blaming only one side? I am honestly curious where you came up w/ that.

That’s why. You’re making excuses for him based on events that happened YEARS AGO.

 

[kskboys]

Who brought Murray in? Eberflus did.

Who brought Sanborn in? Eberflus did.

Who brought Elam in? Eberflus did.

But you give him a pass.


That’s why. You’re making excuses for him based on events that happened YEARS AGO.

Nope, misread on your part. Our talent was horrific, period. If you want to blame him for bringing those guys in, I'm on board.

 

[kskboys]

I was discussing the players he mentioned. I think Ogbonnia and Bullard will make a decent rotation alongside Q and Clark but who do you compare them to? Way below NFL average, but way better than Toia and some guys who rotated in last year so an upgrade if the comparison is them from last year for sure. Better than Osa, no way. Thomas, probably not. But better fits for this defense, yes, by far, and that's what matters.

Ogboner is an above average run stopping NT. Bullard is an above average rotational DT.

Both are better run stoppers than Osa. Serious upgrade on the DL.

Toia is not an NFL player.

 

[kskboys]

No.

Pass defense was worse. He doesn't give you anything clark doesn't already.

I'm thinking Clark is going to play some 3-4 DE.

 

[Pass2Run]

I was discussing the players he mentioned. I think Ogbonnia and Bullard will make a decent rotation alongside Q and Clark but who do you compare them to? Way below NFL average, but way better than Toia and some guys who rotated in last year so an upgrade if the comparison is them from last year for sure. Better than Osa, no way. Thomas, probably not. But better fits for this defense, yes, by far, and that's what matters.

Don't forget my boy Perrion Winfrey, he fits in well as back up depth because he can move.

 

[Pass2Run]

Who brought Murray in? Eberflus did.

Who brought Sanborn in? Eberflus did.

Who brought Elam in? Eberflus did.

But you give him a pass.


That’s why. You’re making excuses for him based on events that happened YEARS AGO.

Anyone watching Ebergoof's scheme last year knows it wasn't just his players. The same failed scheme, coverages, lack of blitz, time after time after time. Over and over.

The defense was bad. They weren't that bad.

 

[Stash]

Anyone watching Ebergoof's scheme last year knows it wasn't just his players. The same failed scheme, coverages, lack of blitz, time after time after time. Over and over.

The defense was bad. They weren't that bad.

Try telling that to @kskboys

 

[big dog cowboy]

Don't forget my boy Perrion Winfrey

Cowboys released him on March 5th.

Do you think they will be resigning him just 4 months later?

 

[Jarntt]

Ogboner is an above average run stopping NT. Bullard is an above average rotational DT.

Both are better run stoppers than Osa. Serious upgrade on the DL.

Toia is not an NFL player.

Osa is 10 times the pass rusher. They aren't upgrades from a talent perspective over him and really aren't close to as good as him. As I mentioned, they are just better fits for this defense. That and being cheaper makes them better for us.

 

[Jarntt]

Don't forget my boy Perrion Winfrey, he fits in well as back up depth because he can move.

But he isn't a Cowboy. Well, at least not right now. I wouldn't mind bringing him back into the mix for training Camp myself

 

[Stash]

Don't forget my boy Perrion Winfrey, he fits in well as back up depth because he can move.

I don’t think you’ve been keeping up with ‘your boy’.

 

[DarkVader33]

Osa is 10 times the pass rusher. They aren't upgrades from a talent perspective over him and really aren't close to as good as him. As I mentioned, they are just better fits for this defense. That and being cheaper makes them better for us.

I like OSA but he has never had more than 4.5 sacks in a season and only 17 for his career. He isn’t 10 times better than anyone.