How much would a 1st round tender have cost us on Austin?

[LarryCanadian]

Haven't seen this talked about, but IF Jerry knew he was going to release TO, AND they really are high on Austin's future, why play games and just offer a 2nd round tender?

How much is the 1 year salary for a 1st round tender?

Now, with depth issues at WR, or at the very least young star potential, Dallas is faced with matching what could be a very expensive offer from another team or taking back a 2nd round draft pick. Now we gave up a 1st and 3rd for Roy Williams because "what drafted receiver would be able to produce like Williams....." and now we might be in same boat with Austin.

So, basically we traded the difference in price between a 1st round and 2nd round tender to a restricted free agent, versus the hope that nobody else would be willing to part with a 2nd rounder and/or pay him a big contract.

I was curious about that. I mean tendering Procter etc is one thing with low round picks.

Am I missing something? Is the price so high to tender the player the contract where a 1st rounder is required compensation to steal him? I don't understand the Football Restricted Free-agency etc, so this is a true question not a critique per se. After 1 year is the player automatically an unrestricted free-agent anyway? In which case you face a big potential contract anyway, particularly if player was successful.

I think this MIGHT have been mismanaged a bit. I mean the coaches, scouts, and GM's should know Austin's value in this league. And not only as a promising up and comer WR, he has good size/height/weight and CAN play special teams productively.

LarryCanadian

 

[AdamJT13]

The first-round tender is $2.198 million.

But teams aren't necessarily interested in keeping other teams from signing an RFA to an offer sheet. If the player gets an offer that would be acceptable, you can match the offer and sign the player long-term instead of losing him next year, when he'll be an unrestricted free agent. And if you don't match, you get a second-round draft pick -- instead of possibly losing him next year for nothing. If you give him a first-round tender, you could could end up with neither a draft pick or a long-term contract. (Ask the Chargers how their RFA strategy worked out with Michael Turner.)

The Cowboys gave Austin a second-round tender, which means they would be comfortable getting a second-round pick for him, if that's what happens.

 

[Bluefin]

You could argue we did the same thing as the Chargers in relation to defensive end Chris Canty, who played last season under a one year first round restricted free agent tender.

He left in free agency this off-season for monster money from the New York Giants. But shouldn't we get something for developing the player?

Will we not receive a compensatory draft selection next March for losing Canty since we didn't spend nearly as much on his replacement, Igor Olshansky?

 

[LarryCanadian]

Thanks guys, and good example on Canty.

The way I read it then, is that the Cowboys are ok with a 2nd round pick IF they don't think the offer Austin MIGHT receive anywhere else is reasonable.

It is almost like a free shot at gauging Austin's market value at the moment, with a 2nd rounder at least if we "undervalue" him in terms of what OTHER teams would pay.

Either way, if he is not signed to more than the tender, then we might want to draft someone else at WR especially if Stanback doesn't develop, because no guarantee he is back or we are really held at ransom, if Austin is unrestricted free agent next season.

Worst Case Scenario to imagine:

Roy Williams doesn't turn out to be a solid route runner or "true" number 1 receiver this year, despite all opportunity/effort to make him so.

Austin signs 2nd round tender with us AND has a solid season, BUT gets huge offer from other team(s).

Stanback is injured again and/or doesn't really take next step to even being top 4 receiver.

We don't draft anyone or nobody surprises in camp.

Then what ......... (back to free-agency cast off bin I guess). Scenario could happen!

I guess I'm pessimistic since the breaks haven't been coming our way last year or so.

LarryCanadian

 

[Monster Heel]

I'd say the breaks haven't been going our way since about 1996 or so.

 

[Bluefin]

The way I read it then, is that the Cowboys are ok with a 2nd round pick IF they don't think the offer Austin MIGHT receive anywhere else is reasonable.

That would seem to be correct, but maybe circumstances have changed their thinking in regards to Miles Austin.

link

Before the Cowboys made their tender offers in February, two front office sources agreed they would take a second round pick for Austin.

But Terrell Owens was still on the team back then. Jerry Jones has pointed to Austin as one of the reasons Owens was expendable, so the thinking may have changed.

It would seem we were prepared to part company with Austin when we tendered him at the second round level if another team was willing to part with the compensation.

Do we still feel the same way not that Terrell Owens has departed for part unknown?

 

[AdamJT13]

You could argue we did the same thing as the Chargers in relation to defensive end Chris Canty, who played last season under a one year first round restricted free agent tender.

Yep. It's probably because the same "potential" that caused the Giants to pay Canty $7 million per season caused the Cowboys to think that getting a a second-round pick for Canty might not be enough. So we got him for one season, during which he was OK but not especially productive, and now we're looking at getting a fourth-round pick, possibly a third, but maybe nothing at all after losing him. Had we given Canty the second-round tender last season, the WORST-case scenario was the situation we're in right now. But we would've had a chance of either having another second-round pick last year or having him signed long-term for almost certainly much less than what he got from the Giants.

As far as a comp pick for Canty, we still need another one of our UFAs to sign somewhere else for enough money to qualify (Tank Johnson didn't). Or we'll need to cut, say, Keith Brooking in the middle of the season if we think we'd rather have a third- or fourth-round comp pick than have him.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Yep. It's probably because the same "potential" that caused the Giants to pay Canty $7 million per season caused the Cowboys to think that getting a a second-round pick for Canty might not be enough. So we got him for one season, during which he was OK but not especially productive, and now we're looking at getting a fourth-round pick, possibly a third, but maybe nothing at all after losing him. Had we given Canty the second-round tender last season, the WORST-case scenario was the situation we're in right now. But we would've had a chance of either having another second-round pick last year or having him signed long-term for almost certainly much less than what he got from the Giants.

As far as a comp pick for Canty, we still need another one of our UFAs to sign somewhere else for enough money to qualify (Tank Johnson didn't). Or we'll need to cut, say, Keith Brooking in the middle of the season if we think we'd rather have a third- or fourth-round comp pick than have him.

I agree with the two posts Adam has had on this. This gives us a shot to either sign him long term, and not have to deal with losing him for nothing next year, or to at least get something out of him this year if someone goes crazy and gives him an insane offer based on what potential he might have.

 

[Bluefin]

Yep. It's probably because the same "potential" that caused the Giants to pay Canty $7 million per season caused the Cowboys to think that getting a a second-round pick for Canty might not be enough. So we got him for one season, during which he was OK but not especially productive, and now we're looking at getting a fourth-round pick, possibly a third, but maybe nothing at all after losing him. Had we given Canty the second-round tender last season, the WORST-case scenario was the situation we're in right now. But we would've had a chance of either having another second-round pick last year or having him signed long-term for almost certainly much less than what he got from the Giants.

As far as a comp pick for Canty, we still need another one of our UFAs to sign somewhere else for enough money to qualify (Tank Johnson didn't). Or we'll need to cut, say, Keith Brooking in the middle of the season if we think we'd rather have a third- or fourth-round comp pick than have him.

I was actually upset that we made a final push to resign Chris canty during the scouting combine.

I have no problem with Jerry Jones paying big money to his players, but Canty never did anything more than occasionally flash his potential while with the team.

You do not pay good players great money.

The Giants just did.

If Canty doesn't progress to the next level with them, he will get released after a couple of seasons, IMO.

And it will suck if we don't get a compensatory selection for losing Canty.

Out of curiosity, would losing a restricted free agent such as Miles Austin count if the Jets end up with him?

Or is RFA its own little deal?

 

[Beast_from_East]

The reports coming out of New York are that the Jets are hesitant about giving up a 2nd rounder, but they are expected to make an offer at some point this week.


So if they are hesitant about a 2nd rounder, there is no way in hell they would have even looked at Austin with a 1st round tender.

So by giving Austin a 2nd round tender, we have the chance to either get another 2nd or let the Jets do the dirty work of negotiating a long term deal we can match.

 

[Biggems]

I'd say the breaks haven't been going our way since about 1996 or so.

you make your own breaks.......by being shrewd and sound with FA signings, draft picks, and trades. You also hire quality coaching and front office personnel.

Since Jerry is the owner and GM, all of the blame for the above falls on him.

Now, as far as on field performance, that falls on the players, coaches, and training staff.

 

[AdamJT13]

Out of curiosity, would losing a restricted free agent such as Miles Austin count if the Jets end up with him?

Or is RFA its own little deal?

RFAs don't count in the comp equation.

 

[big dog cowboy]

As far as a comp pick for Canty, we still need another one of our UFAs to sign somewhere else for enough money to qualify (Tank Johnson didn't). Or we'll need to cut, say, Keith Brooking in the middle of the season if we think we'd rather have a third- or fourth-round comp pick than have him.

That is a very easy one to figure out.

Find Brookings replacement by mid-season, tell Brookings thanks and give him parting gifts.

 

[jterrell]

You could argue we did the same thing as the Chargers in relation to defensive end Chris Canty, who played last season under a one year first round restricted free agent tender.

He left in free agency this off-season for monster money from the New York Giants. But shouldn't we get something for developing the player?

Will we not receive a compensatory draft selection next March for losing Canty since we didn't spend nearly as much on his replacement, Igor Olshansky?

It is a sum total not a player for player deal.

Igor presumably starts all 16 games here and we end up losing some thunder there for compensation.

But no matter how many free agents we lost we wouldn't be getting back a pick as high as 52 because no one does.

Because Sensabaugh, Brooking and Igor all have a good shot at 16 games starting I'd expect very minimal if any compensation next year. Maybe a 5th or 6th.

 

[jterrell]

That would seem to be correct, but maybe circumstances have changed their thinking in regards to Miles Austin.

link

It would seem we were prepared to part company with Austin when we tendered him at the second round level if another team was willing to part with the compensation.

Do we still feel the same way not that Terrell Owens has departed for part unknown?

Why would we not feel the same?

Yes, we are down a WR but we could have renegotiated Austin before, during and after the T.O. release.

If we draft a WR at 52 he can compete with Crayton same as Austin. What do we lose? Some speed at WR for 10 plays per game on average and a kick returner. Well Felix is a better kick returner and there are a handful of 4.3 WRs out there on day 2.

 

[Bluefin]

It is a sum total not a player for player deal.

But Chris Canty and Igor Olshansky were the big signings, so I chose to focus only on them.

Because Sensabaugh, Brooking and Igor all have a good shot at 16 games starting I'd expect very minimal if any compensation next year. Maybe a 5th or 6th.

By no means am I a master with projecting possible picks, but Adam said if we have another free agent sign on with another team at a price that qualifys or end up releasing Keith Brooking by mid-season (unlikely), a 3rd or 4th could be on the way.

Why would we not feel the same?

Because circumstances have changed.

Jerry Jones mentioned Miles Austin being one of the young players ready to step up and help replace the production lost with the release of Terrell Owens. Jones spoke of Owens' absence also allowing for more opportunities for the young wideouts to make plays.

So it's pretty easy to see potentially losing Austin in restricted free agency as a fly in the ointment.

We might not know how good Austin can be, but we do know he made plays in limited opportunities.

We have no idea what any rookie receiver might do while adjusting to the NFL game and everything that comes with it.

 

[TwoDeep3]

But Chris Canty and Igor Olshansky were the big signings, so I chose to focus only on them.


By no means am I a master with projecting possible picks, but Adam said if we have another free agent sign on with another team at a price that qualifys or end up releasing Keith Brooking by mid-season (unlikely), a 3rd or 4th could be on the way.



Because circumstances have changed.

Jerry Jones mentioned Miles Austin being one of the young players ready to step up and help replace the production lost with the release of Terrell Owens. Jones spoke of Owens' absence also allowing for more opportunities for the young wideouts to make plays.

So it's pretty easy to see potentially losing Austin in restricted free agency as a fly in the ointment.

We might not know how good Austin can be, but we do know he made plays in limited opportunities.

We have no idea what any rookie receiver might do while adjusting to the NFL game and everything that comes with it.

It might be a fly in the oinment. But can you really say that they didn't expect this?

The difference between a 2nd round tender and a first is 600K. In the big scheme of things that is peanuts. And especially when you go out on a limb and say this is TO's replacement.

I have never seen Jones as someone who isn't shrewd and an out of the box thinker.

Plus he is not the only one who puts on his thinking cap and plans for this teams future. So to think there aren't a number of people working on this and Jones makes the final say-so without help is incorrect. It seems many think his final say means he is the only one planning. Then why hire the other guys?

In that eventuality, they may have put a price on Austin they were certain that would interest some teams, and offer a value to the team should he be snatched up.

The replacement idea and how that will fare also ignores that bringing in a cheaper vet until the rookie is ready can be done.

I am not buying into this youth movement for the sake of youth. There is no plan B here. Billy Davis had a terrific game against the Saints one year and the Cowboy fandom thought he was greatness.

He's probably driving a bread truck now.

So what happens if Austin can't get separation? What do we do then?

I can't believe the team hasn't considered that aspect and put the 2nd round tender on for some type of strategy.

What have we seen from Hurd and Stabback that says if someone gets hurt we're golden?

There is something here that isn't being said by the team and believing what Jones says about Austin leading up to the draft is a little naive.

 

[jterrell]

But Chris Canty and Igor Olshansky were the big signings, so I chose to focus only on them.

While yopu can focus however you choose its not the way picks are awarded. It is based on the total of your off-season dealings and right now we have signed 3 starters apparently. So even if we lose 3 only Canty was coveted. Burnett and Tank Johnson signed for peanuts.

By no means am I a master with projecting possible picks, but Adam said if we have another free agent sign on with another team at a price that qualifys or end up releasing Keith Brooking by mid-season (unlikely), a 3rd or 4th could be on the way.

Which I hope you realize we will not do. Sometimes we have to put on the big boy pants and face reality. Dallas isn't gonna cut Brookings mid-season. He is a starter right now and Wade loves him. Even if gets beaten out he will last through the season. Teams don't dump players at mid-season very often who are class guys.

Because circumstances have changed.

Jerry Jones mentioned Miles Austin being one of the young players ready to step up and help replace the production lost with the release of Terrell Owens. Jones spoke of Owens' absence also allowing for more opportunities for the young wideouts to make plays.

So it's pretty easy to see potentially losing Austin in restricted free agency as a fly in the ointment.

We might not know how good Austin can be, but we do know he made plays in limited opportunities.

We have no idea what any rookie receiver might do while adjusting to the NFL game and everything that comes with it.

Putting all this together because it is the same thing.
A) No the circumstances haven't really changed. The team knew a T.O. decision was gonna need to be made BEFORE They ever made the r2 tender on Austin. They decided Austin's value was such that they would take a r2 for him. At any point they felt they wouldn't they could have simply signed him long-term. He is in NY, not being signed long-term here. That speaks volumes. Also since when can you believe Jerry Jones when he discusses personnel, especially around draft time???

B) Austin has proven nothing more than any rookie WR. He has shown flashes sure but he's also had drops, total disappearances and plain bad WR play that would be an issue if he had any expectations whatsoever of being able to play the position. He is all potential just like a rookie.

C) You make your football team better by adding young, skilled football players. Austin is young and talented, but he hasn't shown WR skill yet. He may ultimately do so or he may not. He is far from able to run a full route tree or be an every down guy imho. While teams would love to have him and use him he also has limitations. And at pick 52 you can do better, far better. If not at WR then elsewhere.

D) Are you really ready to commit more millions than this kid has catches to him? Austin is the gamble not the draft pick. Very few guys go 3 years at such a low level of performance than develop into star WRs. And we'd be paying him a lot of money to take that gamble.

 

[rojan]

I have total faith in Miles Austin..

It became apparent after the Jets had him in for a visit..A second round pick is a big deal and if they are thinking about given that up plus a contract than I'm sure they have done their homework on him..

Romo said last in training camp that we were gonna see big things from him and he flashed them through out the season in his limit time on the field (due to injuries and bad QB play).

I think he has the perfect opportunity in Dallas to have a real break-out year and I expect that from him if he stays.

I'm hoping for him to stay and will be pretty P'd off if he goes to the Jets unless we have a back-up plan like Torry Holt or another established receiver. I would hate to go into the season with Roy, Crayton and a rockie as our 3 top guys. I have no faith in Stanback yet and Hurd doesnt really excite me either.

 

[AdamJT13]

Because Sensabaugh, Brooking and Igor all have a good shot at 16 games starting I'd expect very minimal if any compensation next year. Maybe a 5th or 6th.

While yopu can focus however you choose its not the way picks are awarded. It is based on the total of your off-season dealings and right now we have signed 3 starters apparently. So even if we lose 3 only Canty was coveted. Burnett and Tank Johnson signed for peanuts.

Tank Johnson won't qualify, but Joe Berger should. If we lose one more UFA who signs a qualifying contract -- or if we cut Brooking, Sensabaugh or Olshanksy in time to disqualify them -- we will get a comp pick for Canty. And if we do, that comp pick won't be affected AT ALL by any of the other players in the equation, it'll be based only on Canty's contract, playing time and postseason honors. It should be a fourth-round pick at a minimum, and possibly a third.