CFZ How Zeke in a new role would help us WIN more

[GimmeTheBall!]

Zeke Elliott will never again be what he once was. Ever. BUT- he’s probably just got one more year here and accepting who Zeke is now and understanding how he could still help us WIN is a good step forward. So let’s look at why Zeke has declined and how he can still help us.

WHY ZEKE HAS DECLINED:

• His body has endured a ton of touches since college.
  • This goes all the way back to his days at Ohio state. He had 650 touches- rushing and receiving at OSU in 3 years.
  • In 6 seasons of NFL games, he has an additional 1938 total touches- that’s a whopping 2,588 which averages out to nearly 300 touches a year for 9 straight seasons.

That’s a tough load for anyone’s body. He’s no longer capable of 350 touch season that gives us what we need to win. We need to accept him having a lesser role.

HOW CAN ZEKE STILL BE USED TO HELP US WIN:

• Zeke has evolved from an explosive quick strike back to a slower, methodical power back. It makes zero sense for the Cowboys to pretend he is ever going to be what he was in 2016-19.
• Here’s how we can use him and help us win. Use Zeke as a power back and situational receiver who needs about 12-15 touches a game- MAX. Using Pollard MORE helps this team have more chances for a big play. Keeping Zeke at 20 touches a game reduces our big play chances.
• He needs to be in a RBBC. Using Zeke, Tony Pollard and perhaps another back is a great way to have a better situational running game. We just need him to be part of helping this team win.
• He would make an excellent goal line and short yardage runner. Maybe even a great close out runner in the role Marion Barber played about 15 years ago. But his load needs to be managed carefully. He doesn’t have a productive 20-25 carry game left in him IMO.

With all that’s been said above, I fully expect Zeke to be in his usual role because of Jerry. JJ always plays his players based 100% on how much he’s paying them as opposed to how much he helps the TEAM. Tony Pollard should be at least 12 touches a game himself.

Zeke Elliott can still help this team win. But he would give us a better chance by reducing his role.

I tend to agree.
But this goes back to the bloody process of rehabbing, repurposing and re-delegating a role to a washed up player.

DON'T WE LEARN?

Other teams would have unloaded Zeke and Dak a year ago.
Blokes, let us not put lipstick on this Dow called Zeke.
Washed up. Overpaid. A stumbling block to retooling our running game and wasting Pollard's youth.
But do we learn about keeping scrubs such as Sean Leach, Jason Wittten or Jaylon? Perish tha thought.

 

[jazzcat22]

Who said Pollard needs to start? He just needs more of the load. The more chances our big play people get, the better chances we have for a big play. We need a RBBC, not a Zeke-centric RB situation. Zeke can start. Just don’t play him like it’s 2016.

Here’s what I said in the OP about Jerry demanding Zeke play the majority of time: “I fully expect Zeke to be in his usual role because of Jerry. JJ always plays his players based 100% on how much he’s paying them as opposed to how much he helps the TEAM. Tony Pollard should be at least 12 touches a game himself.”

Then why didn’t Jerry insist on playing Romo over Dak once he was cleared to play?
He clearly was the higher paid player.

 

[Bobhaze]

Then why didn’t Jerry insist on playing Romo over Dak once he was cleared to play?
He clearly was the higher paid player.

That’s a fair point jazzy. My answer to that is this- QB is completely different. At the time Romo came back, Dak had led the team to double digit wins in a row. From what I’ve read, JJ wanted to play Romo but he was talked out of it by Garrett and the coaches.

That was certainly an exception to Jerry’s habit of playing by pay. But Romo wouldn’t have lasted a half anyway with his balsa-wood body anyway.

 

[jazzcat22]

That’s a fair point jazzy. My answer to that is this- QB is completely different. At the time Romo came back, Dak had led the team to double digit wins in a row. From what I’ve read, JJ wanted to play Romo but he was talked out of it by Garrett and the coaches.

That was certainly an exception to Jerry’s habit of playing by pay. But Romo wouldn’t have lasted a half anyway with his balsa-wood body anyway.

And there was nothing showing that Pollard should be the starter, except Zeke was playing injured. The coaches should have shut him down for a few games. Jerry made his comments, but the training staff and coaches would not have risked his health if they did not think he could handle it.
They did not play him because Jerry said so. IMO.

 

[Floatyworm]

How about Zeke off the team???? Addition by subtraction....

 

[plasticman]

Wow, Bob, I just commented on this a few minutes ago on a different thread. Didn't see yours yet, would have been more appropriate.

Yes, get the tough yards. block well when asked to do so, don't fumble, score TD's.....and stay home at night.

Save the running yardage for the playoffs.

 

[Bobhaze]

And there was nothing showing that Pollard should be the starter, except Zeke was playing injured. The coaches should have shut him down for a few games. Jerry made his comments, but the training staff and coaches would not have risked his health if they did not think he could handle it.
They did not play him because Jerry said so. IMO.

I agree with that. I’m talking about next year in regard to Zeke. I’ve never said Pollard should start. Just saying Zeke should not be the featured bell cow RB like he was in 2016. Those days are gone.

 

[quickccc]

Zeke Elliott will never again be what he once was. Ever. BUT- he’s probably just got one more year here and accepting who Zeke is now and understanding how he could still help us WIN is a good step forward. So let’s look at why Zeke has declined and how he can still help us.

WHY ZEKE HAS DECLINED:

• His body has endured a ton of touches since college.
  • This goes all the way back to his days at Ohio state. He had 650 touches- rushing and receiving at OSU in 3 years.
  • In 6 seasons of NFL games, he has an additional 1938 total touches- that’s a whopping 2,588 which averages out to nearly 300 touches a year for 9 straight seasons.

That’s a tough load for anyone’s body. He’s no longer capable of 350 touch season that gives us what we need to win. We need to accept him having a lesser role.

HOW CAN ZEKE STILL BE USED TO HELP US WIN:

• Zeke has evolved from an explosive quick strike back to a slower, methodical power back. It makes zero sense for the Cowboys to pretend he is ever going to be what he was in 2016-19.
• Here’s how we can use him and help us win. Use Zeke as a power back and situational receiver who needs about 12-15 touches a game- MAX. Using Pollard MORE helps this team have more chances for a big play. Keeping Zeke at 20 touches a game reduces our big play chances.
• He needs to be in a RBBC. Using Zeke, Tony Pollard and perhaps another back is a great way to have a better situational running game. We just need him to be part of helping this team win.
• He would make an excellent goal line and short yardage runner. Maybe even a great close out runner in the role Marion Barber played about 15 years ago. But his load needs to be managed carefully. He doesn’t have a productive 20-25 carry game left in him IMO.

With all that’s been said above, I fully expect Zeke to be in his usual role because of Jerry. JJ always plays his players based 100% on how much he’s paying them as opposed to how much he helps the TEAM. Tony Pollard should be at least 12 touches a game himself.

Zeke Elliott can still help this team win. But he would give us a better chance by reducing his role.

This is a film clip example of how Zeke could help us as both a runner and receiver - keep an eye on the various uneven formations and misdirection flow the offense sets for the RB in Voch's film clip.

Of course these designs and formations are Mike McCarthy's offense .... not Kellen Moore's. That's the big problem- Kellen is not creative or innovative at all when
it comes to best utilizing the RBs .. .Pollard speed and skill set should've made him one of the more feared change of pace/nickel backs in the NFL .
But not under Kellen, he only knows basic and bland.... right up the middle, and check down dump off catches, seems like that's all he knows.

Sure we need blocking up front to get run game going,, but we also need creative coaches that can best scheme these backs in much more creative, productive
ways ,...

 

[Bobhaze]

This is a film clip example of how Zeke could help us as both a runner and receiver - keep an eye on the various uneven formations and misdirection flow the offense sets for the RB in Voch's film clip.

Of course these designs and formations are Mike McCarthy's offense .... not Kellen Moore's. That's the big problem- Kellen is not creative or innovative at all when
it comes to best utilizing the RBs .. .Pollard speed and skill set should've made him one of the more feared change of pace/nickel backs in the NFL .
But not under Kellen, he only knows basic and bland.... right up the middle, and check down dump off catches, seems like that's all he knows.

Sure we need blocking up front to get run game going,, but we also need creative coaches that can best scheme these backs in much more creative, productive
ways ,...

It still feels a lot like the Garrett offense. “Beat the man in front of you” was the mantra. Meanwhile, teams winning playoff games are scheming players into positions where their talents are maximized. The Cowboys have remained too predictable offensively when they don’t have the upper hand. If your leading 21-3 it’s easier to call plays than when you’re down 21-3.

I’ve never understood why Zeke and Pollard couldn’t be on the field at the same time more often in more creative ways.

 

[LittleD]

Zeke on the bench makes the most sense and off the team as soon as possible. What a gigantic waste of cap space and money. NEVER PAY RB's second contracts!!!

 

[quickccc]

It still feels a lot like the Garrett offense. “Beat the man in front of you” was the mantra. Meanwhile, teams winning playoff games are scheming players into positions where their talents are maximized. The Cowboys have remained too predictable offensively when they don’t have the upper hand. If your leading 21-3 it’s easier to call plays than when you’re down 21-3.

I’ve never understood why Zeke and Pollard couldn’t be on the field at the same time more often in more creative ways.

Garrett has never had this much variation of formations, and misdirection as what you're seeing in this film session
And when has Garrett's offense had a no TE formation ?

- His offense was very TE heavy demanding. It would have never give you a look without the TE being involved.
And Garrett's offense did offer as multi-pre-snap motion as even Kellen's offense.

- McCarthy is a west coast oriented offense - while both Garrett and Kellen originate from the rhythm time based offense- the big difference is
Kellen's offense offers more pass route designs and places more emphasis on pre-snap motion. But he has his eyes and mind focused on
the WRs and TEs and keeps it simple and bland when it comes to the RBs.

- Garrett practically knows 90's Cowboys offense ..and that's it. It never expands and adds a extension or an exotic look. Never gives defenses
different looks and opposing defenses have even stated how predictable and simple it is to gain clues and hints how he operates.
Funny how Jerry thought he was such a great offensive young mind.

 

[quickccc]

It still feels a lot like the Garrett offense. “Beat the man in front of you” was the mantra. Meanwhile, teams winning playoff games are scheming players into positions where their talents are maximized. The Cowboys have remained too predictable offensively when they don’t have the upper hand. If your leading 21-3 it’s easier to call plays than when you’re down 21-3.

I’ve never understood why Zeke and Pollard couldn’t be on the field at the same time more often in more creative ways.

Split back formation, with both Zeke and Pollard in the same backfield (or interchangeable sub), with misdirection emphasis so it's harder for defenses to anticipate reads.
A much stronger emphasis on quick RB screens- something that has become a graveyard idea with Kellen Moore.

Zeke used to be deadly on those quick screens- but surely that's idea for someone like Pollard.
Elliott could use this " split back formation" ,in running sets- hell if it worked for Eddie Lacy....

 

[Jarntt]

While Zeke is here I'm fine with the depth chart as is. But, we need to play Pollard a lot more than we have. It doesn't need to be more than Zeke and it doesn't even need to be 50/50 (personally I would make it about 50/50 if it were my call) but it needs to be more. If the excuse is Zeke's injuries are the only reason he is no longer very good, well then playing him fewer snaps should help. If the excuse is Zeke isn't great because of the OL, well then Pollard wouldn't look so good behind that same OL. But, let's not forget Zeke's pass protection is elite. My only issue with Pollard is I don't think he will be the same back getting 70-80% of the snaps so we need a 1 to his 1A (or 1A to his 1) whether it be Zeke or someone else and the cap for now says that's Zeke. And that's fine, but lean on him more as he has earned it he'll continue to help us like he has thus far when on the field. Salary and draft position need to stop dictating snaps on this team.

 

[Bobhaze]

Split back formation, with both Zeke and Pollard in the same backfield (or interchangeable sub), with misdirection emphasis so it's harder for defenses to anticipate reads.
A much stronger emphasis on quick RB screens- something that has become a graveyard idea with Kellen Moore.

Zeke used to be deadly on those quick screens- but surely that's idea for someone like Pollard.
Elliott could use this " split back formation" ,in running sets- hell if it worked for Eddie Lacy....

I agree. If we’re stuck with Zeke another year, and Tony Pollard has consistently shown he’s an explosive playmaker, surely we could find more creative ways to use BOTH their talents. I don’t care who starts.

Zeke has clearly declined, but he still has some value. Especially if he’s used more creatively and strategically along with the other Cowboys playmakers. There’s a simple football 101 thought here- get the ball as often as possible in the hands of your best playmakers.

 

[conner01]

Zeke Elliott will never again be what he once was. Ever. BUT- he’s probably just got one more year here and accepting who Zeke is now and understanding how he could still help us WIN is a good step forward. So let’s look at why Zeke has declined and how he can still help us.

WHY ZEKE HAS DECLINED:

• His body has endured a ton of touches since college.
  • This goes all the way back to his days at Ohio state. He had 650 touches- rushing and receiving at OSU in 3 years.
  • In 6 seasons of NFL games, he has an additional 1938 total touches- that’s a whopping 2,588 which averages out to nearly 300 touches a year for 9 straight seasons.

That’s a tough load for anyone’s body. He’s no longer capable of 350 touch season that gives us what we need to win. We need to accept him having a lesser role.

HOW CAN ZEKE STILL BE USED TO HELP US WIN:

• Zeke has evolved from an explosive quick strike back to a slower, methodical power back. It makes zero sense for the Cowboys to pretend he is ever going to be what he was in 2016-19.
• Here’s how we can use him and help us win. Use Zeke as a power back and situational receiver who needs about 12-15 touches a game- MAX. Using Pollard MORE helps this team have more chances for a big play. Keeping Zeke at 20 touches a game reduces our big play chances.
• He needs to be in a RBBC. Using Zeke, Tony Pollard and perhaps another back is a great way to have a better situational running game. We just need him to be part of helping this team win.
• He would make an excellent goal line and short yardage runner. Maybe even a great close out runner in the role Marion Barber played about 15 years ago. But his load needs to be managed carefully. He doesn’t have a productive 20-25 carry game left in him IMO.

With all that’s been said above, I fully expect Zeke to be in his usual role because of Jerry. JJ always plays his players based 100% on how much he’s paying them as opposed to how much he helps the TEAM. Tony Pollard should be at least 12 touches a game himself.

Zeke Elliott can still help this team win. But he would give us a better chance by reducing his role.

Isn’t that what they did last year?
He avg 13.9 carry’s a game and I expect the carry’s will be around that this year
In the passing game he generally to dump off guy which would be which ever back is in there
They use Zeke on more passing downs because he’s a really good blocker

 

[blueblood70]

Touchy, touchy.....Pollard is a part time player and stirring the pot leads one to think that you are for him starting.....I'd like to know how you know what JJ is thinking.....or are you just assuming?

I agree while more snaps for pollard are necessary but also just BETTER play calling and run blocking for zeke!!

IT cant be 3 plays; heavy left, right and middle..ridiculous..this issue is more OL and KM..zeke was rolling until he got injured and CLEARLY the starter the first haff of the season..sure he got outplayed on one leg but his demise is overblown..the issues are play calling and line blocking scheme issue. Hey MORE a role change for our OC back to QB coach should do it..MM call the plays..lets do this.ok BOB try that one on for size )

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Zeke Elliott will never again be what he once was. Ever. BUT- he’s probably just got one more year here and accepting who Zeke is now and understanding how he could still help us WIN is a good step forward. So let’s look at why Zeke has declined and how he can still help us.

WHY ZEKE HAS DECLINED:

• His body has endured a ton of touches since college.
  • This goes all the way back to his days at Ohio state. He had 650 touches- rushing and receiving at OSU in 3 years.
  • In 6 seasons of NFL games, he has an additional 1938 total touches- that’s a whopping 2,588 which averages out to nearly 300 touches a year for 9 straight seasons.

That’s a tough load for anyone’s body. He’s no longer capable of 350 touch season that gives us what we need to win. We need to accept him having a lesser role.

HOW CAN ZEKE STILL BE USED TO HELP US WIN:

• Zeke has evolved from an explosive quick strike back to a slower, methodical power back. It makes zero sense for the Cowboys to pretend he is ever going to be what he was in 2016-19.
• Here’s how we can use him and help us win. Use Zeke as a power back and situational receiver who needs about 12-15 touches a game- MAX. Using Pollard MORE helps this team have more chances for a big play. Keeping Zeke at 20 touches a game reduces our big play chances.
• He needs to be in a RBBC. Using Zeke, Tony Pollard and perhaps another back is a great way to have a better situational running game. We just need him to be part of helping this team win.
• He would make an excellent goal line and short yardage runner. Maybe even a great close out runner in the role Marion Barber played about 15 years ago. But his load needs to be managed carefully. He doesn’t have a productive 20-25 carry game left in him IMO.

With all that’s been said above, I fully expect Zeke to be in his usual role because of Jerry. JJ always plays his players based 100% on how much he’s paying them as opposed to how much he helps the TEAM. Tony Pollard should be at least 12 touches a game himself.

Zeke Elliott can still help this team win. But he would give us a better chance by reducing his role.

The running game should ALWAYS be "RRBC". It's what should have been from the moment Tony donned a Cowboys uniform. But...we're too STUPID...or stubborn...to take advantage of what some of us called "Thunder and Lightening".

Moore wanted NCAA Mountain West passing numbers more than a dynamic, diverse running game.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I agree while more snaps for pollard are necessary but also just BETTER play calling and run blocking for zeke!!

IT cant be 3 plays; heavy left, right and middle..ridiculous..this issue is more OL and KM..zeke was rolling until he got injured and CLEARLY the starter the first haff of the season..sure he got outplayed on one leg but his demise is overblown..the issues are play calling and line blocking scheme issue. Hey MORE a role change for our OC back to QB coach should do it..MM call the plays..lets do this.ok BOB try that one on for size )

Exactly! Not sure why people are calling for zeke's demise with that ATROCIOUS blocking and scheme. People need to refresh their faulty memories. Tony did great in the flats and moving plays. His forte! Up the middle? Where a run game also needs to happen? Tony fared no better than zeke.

Half the time Zeke had to dodge defenders and our own linemen at the hand off.

 

[Coogiguy03]

Zeke Elliott will never again be what he once was. Ever. BUT- he’s probably just got one more year here and accepting who Zeke is now and understanding how he could still help us WIN is a good step forward. So let’s look at why Zeke has declined and how he can still help us.

WHY ZEKE HAS DECLINED:

• His body has endured a ton of touches since college.
  • This goes all the way back to his days at Ohio state. He had 650 touches- rushing and receiving at OSU in 3 years.
  • In 6 seasons of NFL games, he has an additional 1938 total touches- that’s a whopping 2,588 which averages out to nearly 300 touches a year for 9 straight seasons.

That’s a tough load for anyone’s body. He’s no longer capable of 350 touch season that gives us what we need to win. We need to accept him having a lesser role.

HOW CAN ZEKE STILL BE USED TO HELP US WIN:

• Zeke has evolved from an explosive quick strike back to a slower, methodical power back. It makes zero sense for the Cowboys to pretend he is ever going to be what he was in 2016-19.
• Here’s how we can use him and help us win. Use Zeke as a power back and situational receiver who needs about 12-15 touches a game- MAX. Using Pollard MORE helps this team have more chances for a big play. Keeping Zeke at 20 touches a game reduces our big play chances.
• He needs to be in a RBBC. Using Zeke, Tony Pollard and perhaps another back is a great way to have a better situational running game. We just need him to be part of helping this team win.
• He would make an excellent goal line and short yardage runner. Maybe even a great close out runner in the role Marion Barber played about 15 years ago. But his load needs to be managed carefully. He doesn’t have a productive 20-25 carry game left in him IMO.

With all that’s been said above, I fully expect Zeke to be in his usual role because of Jerry. JJ always plays his players based 100% on how much he’s paying them as opposed to how much he helps the TEAM. Tony Pollard should be at least 12 touches a game himself.

Zeke Elliott can still help this team win. But he would give us a better chance by reducing his role.

That part right there is why you're one of the best in here!!!!!! Spot on!!!!!

 

[Diehardblues]

Then why didn’t Jerry insist on playing Romo over Dak once he was cleared to play?
He clearly was the higher paid player.

Great question.

IMO it was more about the public perception. Jethro was better off risking losing with Dak in the playoffs than with Romo .

If he had brought Romo back in benching Daks Rookie of the year performance with 11 straight wins and Romo loses again in playoffs , Jethro would have been forever scorned .

And after the decision was made the ties were cut. Romo retired and any financial attachments severed .