CFZ How Zeke in a new role would help us WIN more

[pancakeman]

My one issue with RBBC…and it’s not that it doesn’t work or that it couldn’t help us immensely.. is telegraphing plays. I thought KM took a step back last year and at times we looked like we couldn’t get creative. The minute I read this I started thinking of a 3 headed RBBC and other teams saying “oh it’s Rico, it’s the jet sweep” or “it’s Zeke lined up on the right. Look for …” ..you get the picture. I know all teams deal with this but I’m hoping this year brings more creativity from KM and our situational play calling doesn’t turn into patterns.

Yup, and it's tricky because to keep defenses honest you basically have to purposefully run plays that are atypical for the personnel/formation often enough--that intentionally don't play to the strengths of the lineup. Which of course is completely counter to the whole original idea of putting players in whose strengths fit the situation.

 

[CWR]

Zeke Elliott will never again be what he once was. Ever. BUT- he’s probably just got one more year here and accepting who Zeke is now and understanding how he could still help us WIN is a good step forward. So let’s look at why Zeke has declined and how he can still help us.

WHY ZEKE HAS DECLINED:

• His body has endured a ton of touches since college.
  • This goes all the way back to his days at Ohio state. He had 650 touches- rushing and receiving at OSU in 3 years.
  • In 6 seasons of NFL games, he has an additional 1938 total touches- that’s a whopping 2,588 which averages out to nearly 300 touches a year for 9 straight seasons.

That’s a tough load for anyone’s body. He’s no longer capable of 350 touch season that gives us what we need to win. We need to accept him having a lesser role.

HOW CAN ZEKE STILL BE USED TO HELP US WIN:

• Zeke has evolved from an explosive quick strike back to a slower, methodical power back. It makes zero sense for the Cowboys to pretend he is ever going to be what he was in 2016-19.
• Here’s how we can use him and help us win. Use Zeke as a power back and situational receiver who needs about 12-15 touches a game- MAX. Using Pollard MORE helps this team have more chances for a big play. Keeping Zeke at 20 touches a game reduces our big play chances.
• He needs to be in a RBBC. Using Zeke, Tony Pollard and perhaps another back is a great way to have a better situational running game. We just need him to be part of helping this team win.
• He would make an excellent goal line and short yardage runner. Maybe even a great close out runner in the role Marion Barber played about 15 years ago. But his load needs to be managed carefully. He doesn’t have a productive 20-25 carry game left in him IMO.

With all that’s been said above, I fully expect Zeke to be in his usual role because of Jerry. JJ always plays his players based 100% on how much he’s paying them as opposed to how much he helps the TEAM. Tony Pollard should be at least 12 touches a game himself.

Zeke Elliott can still help this team win. But he would give us a better chance by reducing his role.

Yes 60/40 or so in favor of TP makes sense to me.

In fact we should be trying to re-sign Pollard now, as I expect he'd be quite reasonable.

Zeke runs tough, but MB3 was a different animal. He may be the Cowboys RB I've enjoyed watching the most. His time was short lived, but lawd he abused defenders.

 

[quickccc]

I agree. If we’re stuck with Zeke another year, and Tony Pollard has consistently shown he’s an explosive playmaker, surely we could find more creative ways to use BOTH their talents. I don’t care who starts.

Zeke has clearly declined, but he still has some value. Especially if he’s used more creatively and strategically along with the other Cowboys playmakers.
There’s a simple football 101 thought here- get the ball as often as possible in the hands of your best playmakers.

i would think it actually does matter who starts, who get the majority of the snaps, because so much emphasis and importance on protecting
the QB, too many plays, drives and games are kept alive.. or dies in what the RB can do to block for the QB...
And coaches will want their best chance of blocking blitzing LBs away from their starting QB

- Everyone is looking at Pollard on the field with just touching the ball, but he has to prove himself trustworthy of what he can contribute
"without" the ball. and that's gonna be blitz-blocking.

- This is where coaches have to be innovative with their RBs, pick their spots and situations and know what they can and cannot do.
i doubt change of pace, nickel back types like ex NFL backs Darren Sproles, Darrell Thompson are so excluded from the offense because
they are not suited for full time starting role.

- Packers' Aaron Jones and Chargers Cark Eker are really change of pace types, imo
but their run-catch game breaking skills are so exceptional and what they dangerously present to a defense that they demand more playing time

 

[GMO415]

He's the highest paid FB in the league.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Zeke Elliott will never again be what he once was. Ever. BUT- he’s probably just got one more year here and accepting who Zeke is now and understanding how he could still help us WIN is a good step forward. So let’s look at why Zeke has declined and how he can still help us.

WHY ZEKE HAS DECLINED:

• His body has endured a ton of touches since college.
  • This goes all the way back to his days at Ohio state. He had 650 touches- rushing and receiving at OSU in 3 years.
  • In 6 seasons of NFL games, he has an additional 1938 total touches- that’s a whopping 2,588 which averages out to nearly 300 touches a year for 9 straight seasons.

That’s a tough load for anyone’s body. He’s no longer capable of 350 touch season that gives us what we need to win. We need to accept him having a lesser role.

HOW CAN ZEKE STILL BE USED TO HELP US WIN:

• Zeke has evolved from an explosive quick strike back to a slower, methodical power back. It makes zero sense for the Cowboys to pretend he is ever going to be what he was in 2016-19.
• Here’s how we can use him and help us win. Use Zeke as a power back and situational receiver who needs about 12-15 touches a game- MAX. Using Pollard MORE helps this team have more chances for a big play. Keeping Zeke at 20 touches a game reduces our big play chances.
• He needs to be in a RBBC. Using Zeke, Tony Pollard and perhaps another back is a great way to have a better situational running game. We just need him to be part of helping this team win.
• He would make an excellent goal line and short yardage runner. Maybe even a great close out runner in the role Marion Barber played about 15 years ago. But his load needs to be managed carefully. He doesn’t have a productive 20-25 carry game left in him IMO.

With all that’s been said above, I fully expect Zeke to be in his usual role because of Jerry. JJ always plays his players based 100% on how much he’s paying them as opposed to how much he helps the TEAM. Tony Pollard should be at least 12 touches a game himself.

Zeke Elliott can still help this team win. But he would give us a better chance by reducing his role.

Good post.

Folks think I hate Zeke but it’s not reality.

I think he still has utility in a role you described. What he isn’t though is a RB that deserves 25+ touches a game. It’s up to Moore to figure out to maximize Pollard and Zeke together. It’s clear Pollard deserves more touches; he’s a dynamic playmaker that Zeke simply isn’t anymore.

I thought Zeke looked good pre-injury last year.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

Zeke Elliott will never again be what he once was. Ever. BUT- he’s probably just got one more year here and accepting who Zeke is now and understanding how he could still help us WIN is a good step forward. So let’s look at why Zeke has declined and how he can still help us.

WHY ZEKE HAS DECLINED:

• His body has endured a ton of touches since college.
  • This goes all the way back to his days at Ohio state. He had 650 touches- rushing and receiving at OSU in 3 years.
  • In 6 seasons of NFL games, he has an additional 1938 total touches- that’s a whopping 2,588 which averages out to nearly 300 touches a year for 9 straight seasons.

That’s a tough load for anyone’s body. He’s no longer capable of 350 touch season that gives us what we need to win. We need to accept him having a lesser role.

HOW CAN ZEKE STILL BE USED TO HELP US WIN:

• Zeke has evolved from an explosive quick strike back to a slower, methodical power back. It makes zero sense for the Cowboys to pretend he is ever going to be what he was in 2016-19.
• Here’s how we can use him and help us win. Use Zeke as a power back and situational receiver who needs about 12-15 touches a game- MAX. Using Pollard MORE helps this team have more chances for a big play. Keeping Zeke at 20 touches a game reduces our big play chances.
• He needs to be in a RBBC. Using Zeke, Tony Pollard and perhaps another back is a great way to have a better situational running game. We just need him to be part of helping this team win.
• He would make an excellent goal line and short yardage runner. Maybe even a great close out runner in the role Marion Barber played about 15 years ago. But his load needs to be managed carefully. He doesn’t have a productive 20-25 carry game left in him IMO.

With all that’s been said above, I fully expect Zeke to be in his usual role because of Jerry. JJ always plays his players based 100% on how much he’s paying them as opposed to how much he helps the TEAM. Tony Pollard should be at least 12 touches a game himself.

Zeke Elliott can still help this team win. But he would give us a better chance by reducing his role.

These are facts! You have to earn your paycheck with Jerry! And I get that concept in principal. But that is NOT how sports work. And Jerry has NEVER subscribed to this. I don't care if you are one leg...the person with the higher draft pedigree or the biggest paycheck MUST carry the load. Yet ANOTHER reason why the Owner and GM being the same person DOES NOT WORK!!!!!!

More often than not...in a sport like football...you are paying for what someone has already done! And the NFL owners benefit from guys playing above their paygrade (see Dak going 13 - 3 his rookie year making 400k/year)...but because how NFL contracts work....where you cannot rip their contracts and pay them what they are worth while they are underpaid....by the time your FORCED to pay them...they have wear and tear...and it is possible that the best they will ever be was when they were being underpaid. So expecting them to get even better because they are making more money is quite often not the case. But that has never been a concept the Jones ACCEPT. Because you can't tell me they don't grasp that concept...they just won't accept it.

The Jones boys are bad at their job in ways some of us cannot even imagine.

 

[Diehardblues]

47-16 when Elliott rushes for 100 yards or more.

There’s not a clearer path to victory in Dak and Zeke era than this stat.

 

[conner01]

Exactly! Not sure why people are calling for zeke's demise with that ATROCIOUS blocking and scheme. People need to refresh their faulty memories. Tony did great in the flats and moving plays. His forte! Up the middle? Where a run game also needs to happen? Tony fared no better than zeke.

Half the time Zeke had to dodge defenders and our own linemen at the hand off.

His yards before contact last year was near the top of his career
The oline wasn’t dominating but the run blocking in general wasn’t that bad. The penalties killed our run game more than anything
Zeke played well before he got banged up and finished with 4.2 per carry. Zeke is not done though he’s probably in his last year here because of money
Some fans feel the need to hate in player just like they did Ware when he left. Many said he never got meaningful sacks but his sacks in 3rd and 4th downs was very high. Same with Zeke, he’s still a good player but sometimes you have to move on for financial reasons, and just like Ware did, Zeke will do the same. No reason to hate on guys for what ever the reason and mostly false reasons, just wish them well and move on
Our fan base sees the need to hate on guys

 

[buybuydandavis]

If Elliott and or Pollard can’t carry the load then our Mgmt has totally mismanaged our team by not bringing in or drafting another RB who can carry the load.

Which was my biggest disappointment in draft not drafting at least a mid round RB.

Both Elliot and Pollard should be gone in 2023, and we'll be totally unprepared to make the transition. Which will be the excuse to keep Zeke another year.

Really should have started developing a back *last* year.

 

[Jfconrow]

In madden I put zeke at full back and the only time I use him is on an angle rout out of the backfield

 

[Diehardblues]

Both Elliot and Pollard should be gone in 2023, and we'll be totally unprepared to make the transition. Which will be the excuse to keep Zeke another year.

Really should have started developing a back *last* year.

Yea, I was hoping we’d of been looking to draft one this year, like we did Pollard in middle rounds.

 

[CouchCoach]

Excellent thread and some excellent points in the responding posts.

Pollard is a share back and unfortunately, Elliott is as well. There are few full time RB’s and if they try to keep them as that, they get Gurley, Cook and Henry, the lead back on the sideline. The body, regardless of the conditioning, just cannot hold up against all of those collisions.

The problem that is specific to the Cowboys is that plays are dictated by the owner based on ego and money. He will run the wheels off Elliott to prove he was worth that contract.

For evidence of that, go back to Johnson’s comment that Booger cannot admit he was wrong.

Now, the Cowboys have a different challenge facing their offense because Cooper was the attention getter for the DC’s and at this point, the Cowboys have a bit of a mystery WR corps.

What may have to happen is that Elliott and Pollard increase their touches through the air in the short passing game because I have doubts this will be a big play offense and the 12-14 play drives might be the norm.

The other thing that must happen is that the QB must return to using his legs and the backs must help protect him in the pass and run game.

 

[Bobhaze]

47-16 when Elliott rushes for 100 yards or more.

There’s not a clearer path to victory in Dak and Zeke era than this stat.

Most of those 47 wins happened in the first 3-4 years of his career. I don’t disagree that having Zeke rush for a 100 is a good thing, but how realistic is that happening very often at this point in his career? Much less likely for sure. Plus, it doesn’t have to be Zeke be the one getting the yards.

 

[Redsfan_83]

47-16 when Elliott rushes for 100 yards or more.

There’s not a clearer path to victory in Dak and Zeke era than this stat.

Humongo problem is how you get to that stat. In the last two years he has all of 4 100 yard rushing games. Blame injury, blame whatever, his body has worn down and will not get better over the long haul. Our OL has more quesiton marks that a 8th grade math class, and our QB hasn't proven to be efficient enough in the forward pass allowing our RB's more space to run between tacklets.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Most of those 47 wins happened in the first 3-4 years of his career. I don’t disagree that having Zeke rush for a 100 is a good thing, but how realistic is that happening very often at this point in his career? Much less likely for sure. Plus, it doesn’t have to be Zeke be the one getting the yards.

Jimmy J said that this team is built to play with a lead. The trouble begins when they get behind and have to play catch-up. That makes a lot of sense in the context of this conversation. With a lead, you run the ball to milk the clock. Dak rarely comes out hot against teams over .500. He is always playing catch-up which is why he has such big numbers and the running game gets left behind.

We used to say that Emmitt got better as the game went on. Zeke rarely gets the chance to finish off games and pile up yards b/c Dak has always got us in a hole.

 

[Diehardblues]

Jimmy J said that this team is built to play with a lead. The trouble begins when they get behind and have to play catch-up. That makes a lot of sense in the context of this conversation. With a lead, you run the ball to milk the clock. Dak rarely comes out hot against teams over .500. He is always playing catch-up which is why he has such big numbers and the running game gets left behind.

We used to say that Emmitt got better as the game went on. Zeke rarely gets the chance to finish off opponents b/c Dak has always got us in a hole.

Yep

Is getting behind early more about our defense giving it up or our offense starting slowly?

 

[atlantacowboy]

Yep

Is getting behind early more about our defense giving it up or our offense starting slowly?

Both. This team more often than not comes out of the locker room not ready to play. Our GM doesn't care about the defense so this offense needs to come out of the gates scoring points.

 

[DanTanna]

Zeke has turned into Craig Ironhead Hayword.

 

[Diehardblues]

Most of those 47 wins happened in the first 3-4 years of his career. I don’t disagree that having Zeke rush for a 100 is a good thing, but how realistic is that happening very often at this point in his career? Much less likely for sure. Plus, it doesn’t have to be Zeke be the one getting the yards.

No doubt but I think the bigger point is we need someone to do it as you suggested or at least cumulatively .

When we are dominating or at least focusing on the ground our offense is more effective and explosive as we clearly indicated early in last season as well.

 

[Diehardblues]

Both. This team more often than not comes out of the locker room not ready to play. Our GM doesn't care about the defense so this offense needs to come out of the gates scoring points.

Yep. While we can put up some big offensive stats coming from behind it’s clearly not our best path to victory.

And probably why establishing our running game is our clearest path to victory. It helps mask our weaknesses on defense and helps our QB and offense to be more effective and efficient.