I called for a reboot of the secondary in 2015

[Galian Beast]

http://cowboyszone.com/threads/rebooting-the-secondary.337051/

I've long believed that this secondary was rubbish. I think they have been part of the problem for a long time, but for some reason, we kept dumping the same resources in year after year expecting improvement.

I think they've made the right choice to let this corners and safeties go, but without first addressing the defensive line, I fear any investment will not yield maximum potential. To begin with the secondary first seems fairly backward to me.

I'm glad we didn't resign Jack Crawford. To me, that is settling for mediocre play on the defensive line. If he's one of your best players, you have a problem.

What do we have to work with

Maliek Collins , DT - Might be a complete find. Could turn into a cornerstone player.
Stephen Paea, DT - Clear sign that they don't want to rebuild the defensive line this year. Paea is a stop gap player brought in because he has played for Marinelli.
Cedric Thornton , DT - Decent depth, but should not be starting.
Tyrone Crawford, DT - Overpaid, will likely move on from him after this year.

Demarcus Lawrence, DE - Decent defensive end, but can't stay healthy. Thinking we will probably move on from him after next year.
David Irving, DE - Potential breakout player. Could turn into a cornerstone player.
Benson Mayowa, DE - Came on stronger towards the end of the year.
Damontre, Moore, DE - Backup defensive end
Charles Tapper, DE - 3rd round draft pick, coming off an injury.
Randy Gregory, DE - Won't even be eligible to play until the end of the regular season. Shouldn't be considered a member of the team until he actually yields production and stays out of trouble.

My guess is the front office is probably a lot more comfortable with our defensive line than us fans are. I think that would be really disappointing, though. I think they might look to add one defensive end potentially through the draft or via trade, but I would not be surprised to see them focus entirely on the secondary and potentially at right tackle.

 

[Vinnie2u]

Problem is that the FO is reactionary. They wait until the OLine got old and expensive. Then let everyone go. Result Phil Costa, Montre Holland, pat Mcquistan etc. then they have to spend first rounders catching up. They knew we were going to lose 4 players on the DB, 2 years ago. What they do draft druggies and nerves in the Second. Now they gotta do damage control. So we gonna wind up having Nick Hayden's in the backfield until we can shore it up.

 

[HomeBiscuit]

DB's that left in fa were scrubs. Jeff heath will eclipse the church/wilcox sf combo. We obviously still have our starting fs, jones.. and scandrick and anthony Brown were our best 2 corners anyway. If those 4 start then they're already better. And younger. Draft Quincy Wilson out of florida and move scandrick or brown to slot db and it will be a massacre out there.

Greg Jackson was the reason some of these perennial clowns passed for football players this year and he's still around, so color me enthused about our future in the secondary.

 

[superonyx]

It's a bit worrisome to look at the defensive roster right now.
On paper I don't think you can find a less talented defense in the NFL.

No doubt we have some huge holes and question marks.
It feels that our best hope is that we can be close to as productive on defense as we were last season. Having 3 new starters in your secondary in the same year should concern anyone. It takes secondary players time to learn to play together.

As of today we don't have a pass rush still, and our secondary is worse than last year.
Our hope is that guys like Church and Carr are really no better than the Heath and whoever replaces Carr.....but if that's the case then why were Church and Carr starting anyway when you knew you had no plans to resign them....

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Problem is that the FO is reactionary. They wait until the OLine got old and expensive. Then let everyone go. Result Phil Costa, Montre Holland, pat Mcquistan etc. then they have to spend first rounders catching up. They knew we were going to lose 4 players on the DB, 2 years ago. What they do draft druggies and nerves in the Second. Now they gotta do damage control. So we gonna wind up having Nick Hayden's in the backfield until we can shore it up.

That right there is the what separates great FOs from others. Take the Patriots as an example, they are always maneuvering, anticipating and proactively putting themselves in position to never be caught slipping. The moves they made this offseason were deftly made to allow them to strike while irons hot with the window on Brady's career closing.

 

[superonyx]

DB's that left in fa were scrubs. Jeff heath will eclipse the church/wilcox sf combo. We obviously still have our starting fs, jones.. and scandrick and anthony Brown were our best 2 corners anyway. If those 4 start then they're already better. And younger. Draft Quincy Wilson out of florida and move scandrick or brown to slot db and it will be a massacre out there.

If Scandrick was better then why didn't we play him over Carr last season?
If Heath was better than why wasn't he starting over Church/Wilcox?
It makes no sense and there is any logic to your argument .
It's just a bunch of hope....and hope isn't a plan.

 

[haleyrules]

I can only add that l really hope the FO has something big planned before the season starts! Maybe a trade??

 

[tm1119]

I'm all for rebuilding the secondary and the rest of the D...but Nolan Carroll makes 0 sense. They essentially replace Carr with a slightly worse, barely younger version. I understand not giving out huge $ to the top free agent CB's, but there were other younger guys that got reasonable contracts that would have made a ton more sense.

Yes, they are rebuilding the D....but this also feels like a cap purge at the same time to me. And after a 13-3 season I don't see how it's a good idea.

 

[Galian Beast]

I can only add that l really hope the FO has something big planned before the season starts! Maybe a trade??

I think the FO has shown us that it is mostly inept. Outside of the draft, I don't think they've ever really done anything to impress the fans or the rest of the NFL. They never get value for players before they leave in free agency. We have a 4-time pro bowl QB that they refused to play more than one series, and now they can't get any value for him.

It's a very inept front office.

 

[unionjack8]

http://cowboyszone.com/threads/rebooting-the-secondary.337051/

I've long believed that this secondary was rubbish. I think they have been part of the problem for a long time, but for some reason, we kept dumping the same resources in year after year expecting improvement.

I think they've made the right choice to let this corners and safeties go, but without first addressing the defensive line, I fear any investment will not yield maximum potential. To begin with the secondary first seems fairly backward to me.

I'm glad we didn't resign Jack Crawford. To me, that is settling for mediocre play on the defensive line. If he's one of your best players, you have a problem.

What do we have to work with

Maliek Collins , DT - Might be a complete find. Could turn into a cornerstone player.
Stephen Paea, DT - Clear sign that they don't want to rebuild the defensive line this year. Paea is a stop gap player brought in because he has played for Marinelli.
Cedric Thornton , DT - Decent depth, but should not be starting.
Tyrone Crawford, DT - Overpaid, will likely move on from him after this year.

Demarcus Lawrence, DE - Decent defensive end, but can't stay healthy. Thinking we will probably move on from him after next year.
David Irving, DE - Potential breakout player. Could turn into a cornerstone player.
Benson Mayowa, DE - Came on stronger towards the end of the year.
Damontre, Moore, DE - Backup defensive end
Charles Tapper, DE - 3rd round draft pick, coming off an injury.
Randy Gregory, DE - Won't even be eligible to play until the end of the regular season. Shouldn't be considered a member of the team until he actually yields production and stays out of trouble.

My guess is the front office is probably a lot more comfortable with our defensive line than us fans are. I think that would be really disappointing, though. I think they might look to add one defensive end potentially through the draft or via trade, but I would not be surprised to see them focus entirely on the secondary and potentially at right tackle.

So basically you want a new DL AND a new set of DB's ?
Why not give those db's a chance with a good DL?
We have basically made a right old mess of this defense, including scheme.

 

[Galian Beast]

So basically you want a new DL AND a new set of DB's ?
Why not give those db's a chance with a good DL?
We have basically made a right old mess of this defense, including scheme.

Don't feel as though you read my post.

 

[haleyrules]

I think the FO has shown us that it is mostly inept. Outside of the draft, I don't think they've ever really done anything to impress the fans or the rest of the NFL. They never get value for players before they leave in free agency. We have a 4-time pro bowl QB that they refused to play more than one series, and now they can't get any value for him.

It's a very inept front office.

I have to agree with your sentiments. Very surprised at this off season. The club let so many players, l am not saying that was a mistake, but made very little effort to replace them. Very strange off season so far!

 

[gmoney112]

.... why did you link to a 2 year old thread? I do like my post there. Before Hardy lost his marbles I guess.

That right there is the what separates great FOs from others. Take the Patriots as an example, they are always maneuvering, anticipating and proactively putting themselves in position to never be caught slipping. The moves they made this offseason were deftly made to allow them to strike while irons hot with the window on Brady's career closing.

I know what you mean, but no team is even close to the Patriots. They are 2 tiers above the rest of the league. They're the best run FO in the history of the NFL (if you take into consideration the effects of salary cap stuff).

As far as this being "reactionary", I actually disagree here. Dak is entering his 2nd year, it was impossible to know he was going to have the season he had, but he did.

In this case, they didn't waste any time and moved on. They could have signed Church/Carr or some other FA's, but they didn't. They're starting to build this defense now, as soon as they possibly could, and not hanging onto dead weight and stopgaps for a few more years.

This is Dak's 2nd year, and in his third we will have added a lot of talent in this draft, as well as having a ton of room under the cap next year.

Actually having a lot of space under the cap, a team full of young guys, with the youngest defense in the league and a season to find out who's got some game out of them without mediocre vets taking snaps. Then we have the FA period, and a new draft class.

That's not reactionary to me. That's trying to surround Dak with as much homegrown talent as possible, and putting in place a yearly competitor, not just a flash in the pan.

How successful it will be will depend on if they've learned anything about 2nd round risks.

 

[Pants]

not sure if this thread is about the secondary or the FO...the FO ineptness could have it's own forum

as far as secondary is concerned, I can see why all of the departures happened...some because of money, some because they need to change to get better....as noted by others, and I have said this in several threads, until there is some legit pressure put on the opposing QB, then it won't matter who the 5 or 5 DB's are that in the game...no one can cover for 6 to 8 seconds consistently....the longer a QB runs around, the more the advantage goes to the receiver & QB since they know where they are going (especially with a broken play) , and the CB is in chase mode....

get me a DLine that can apply pressure, and then we can talk about the DB's....oh, and I like Carroll on the team...not sure if he is supposed to be a starter or a stop-gap if we draft a dbg or two, but I like him

 

[unionjack8]

Don't feel as though you read my post.

You said you wanted a new defensive backfield but we should do the DL first. Right there in your first paragraph.....you said it's backwards. My bad, sorry if I misunderstand the concept....not trying to be an awesome person .

Anyway I would have brought back a corner and safety because they know the scheme and tried like hell to upgrade this DL. imo it's the weak link on the whole team. Has been for years. Too many backups and no starting material imo. Collins MAY be good in future but I don't see any other guy on that list that I want starting for my nfl franchise....

 

[Sydla]

DB's that left in fa were scrubs. Jeff heath will eclipse the church/wilcox sf combo. We obviously still have our starting fs, jones.. and scandrick and anthony Brown were our best 2 corners anyway. If those 4 start then they're already better. And younger. Draft Quincy Wilson out of florida and move scandrick or brown to slot db and it will be a massacre out there.

Greg Jackson was the reason some of these perennial clowns passed for football players this year and he's still around, so color me enthused about our future in the secondary.

This is about as rosy an outlook as one could find.

 

[Galian Beast]

You said you wanted a new defensive backfield but we should do the DL first. Right there in your first paragraph.....you said it's backwards. My bad, sorry if I misunderstand the concept....not trying to be an awesome person .

Anyway I would have brought back a corner and safety because they know the scheme and tried like hell to upgrade this DL. imo it's the weak link on the whole team. Has been for years. Too many backups and no starting material imo. Collins MAY be good in future but I don't see any other guy on that list that I want starting for my nfl franchise....

I said it was appropriate to blow up the secondary, but they SHOULD have focused on the defensive line first. These players never fit the scheme and should have been let go years ago.

 

[casmith07]

I have to agree with your sentiments. Very surprised at this off season. The club let so many players, l am not saying that was a mistake, but made very little effort to replace them. Very strange off season so far!

Because they thought we were better than we were, and then you saw that playoff game. Down 21-0 thanks to an inability to cover absolute scrubs at WR.

Well, that and you tell me if you think Church is worth $26M.

I don't give a **** if Aaron Rodgers is the QB on the other side of the ball -- you should not, under any circumstances, give up 6 catches for 103 yards to Jared Cook.

 

[Ken]

I'm all for rebuilding the secondary and the rest of the D...but Nolan Carroll makes 0 sense. They essentially replace Carr with a slightly worse, barely younger version. I understand not giving out huge $ to the top free agent CB's, but there were other younger guys that got reasonable contracts that would have made a ton more sense.

Yes, they are rebuilding the D....but this also feels like a cap purge at the same time to me. And after a 13-3 season I don't see how it's a good idea.

Maybe a slightly worse player but one that makes more plays and fits the style we want to run better at a good cost. He also is insurance if we can't draft an upgrade or Brown regresses.

 

[DogFace]

I think Thornton has a better year. 4 sacks would be nice.