I called for a reboot of the secondary in 2015

[MichaelWinicki]

More resources poured into the secondary is a grand and glorious thing.

 

[Supercowboy1986]

I'm all for rebuilding the secondary and the rest of the D...but Nolan Carroll makes 0 sense. They essentially replace Carr with a slightly worse, barely younger version. I understand not giving out huge $ to the top free agent CB's, but there were other younger guys that got reasonable contracts that would have made a ton more sense.

Yes, they are rebuilding the D....but this also feels like a cap purge at the same time to me. And after a 13-3 season I don't see how it's a good idea.

I read a post on a different site saying the same thing about Nolan carrol and Brandon Carr. I read that signing NC and letting BC walk was because NC is a zone corner and fits the scheme better.

They are placing a round peg in a round hole in other words.

 

[haleyrules]

Cant blame that on FO. Try Garrett.

Agreed on Garrett...but the FO hired him!!

 

[MichaelWinicki]

A reboot, by its definition, means the machine is powered back on. We simply hit shut down and walked away. We have no viable replacements for a lot of the guys we let go. I was no fan of Brandon Carr, but the guy showed up for work everyday and for the most part, was pretty solid.

I have no issues with letting Carr, Mo, or Church walk, but you need some sort of plan to replace those guys. Jeff Heath and Nolan Carroll don't inspire a lot of confidence. We should have at least kept Wilcox. He showed some range and was the only person on the team who could set the tone with his physicality. I don't like him as a full time starter, but he plays special teams and could compete.

Scandrick and Brown are two of the smallest corners in the league. Scandrick has never started a full 16 games. Carroll is a scrub.

Trouble with Wilcox is that his instincts in zone coverage were horrendous.

Yeah he could hit, but then he'd take the worst angle you ever witnessed a safety take to try to tackle someone or he'd track the wrong person coming through his zone.

 

[haleyrules]

Trouble with Wilcox is that his instincts in zone coverage were horrendous.

Yeah he could hit, but then he'd take the worst angle you ever witnessed a safety take to try to tackle someone or he'd track the wrong person coming through his zone.

lol. At least he looks like a football player!

 

[Dre11]

Secondary rank #1 PFF through wild card weekend in 2016

http://cowboyszone.com/threads/rebooting-the-secondary.337051/

I've long believed that this secondary was rubbish. I think they have been part of the problem for a long time, but for some reason, we kept dumping the same resources in year after year expecting improvement.

I think they've made the right choice to let this corners and safeties go, but without first addressing the defensive line, I fear any investment will not yield maximum potential. To begin with the secondary first seems fairly backward to me.

I'm glad we didn't resign Jack Crawford. To me, that is settling for mediocre play on the defensive line. If he's one of your best players, you have a problem.m

What do we have to work with

Maliek Collins , DT - Might be a complete find. Could turn into a cornerstone player.
Stephen Paea, DT - Clear sign that they don't want to rebuild the defensive line this year. Paea is a stop gap player brought in because he has played for Marinelli.
Cedric Thornton , DT - Decent depth, but should not be starting.
Tyrone Crawford, DT - Overpaid, will likely move on from him after this year.

Demarcus Lawrence, DE - Decent defensive end, but can't stay healthy. Thinking we will probably move on from him after next year.
David Irving, DE - Potential breakout player. Could turn into a cornerstone player.
Benson Mayowa, DE - Came on stronger towards the end of the year.
Damontre, Moore, DE - Backup defensive end
Charles Tapper, DE - 3rd round draft pick, coming off an injury.
Randy Gregory, DE - Won't even be eligible to play until the end of the regular season. Shouldn't be considered a member of the team until he actually yields production and stays out of trouble.

My guess is the front office is probably a lot more comfortable with our defensive line than us fans are. I think that would be really disappointing, though. I think they might look to add one defensive end potentially through the draft or via trade, but I would not be surprised to see them focus entirely on the secondary and potentially at right tackle.

 

[Galian Beast]

Cant blame that on FO. Try Garrett.

Who hired Garrett?

 

[manster4ever]

If Scandrick was better then why didn't we play him over Carr last season?
If Heath was better than why wasn't he starting over Church/Wilcox?
It makes no sense and there is any logic to your argument .
It's just a bunch of hope....and hope isn't a plan.

Hope is a GOOD thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.

I JUST came up with that

But feel free to use it as you see fit for the rest of your days on earth.

 

[Q_the_man]

If Scandrick was better then why didn't we play him over Carr last season?
If Heath was better than why wasn't he starting over Church/Wilcox?
It makes no sense and there is any logic to your argument .
It's just a bunch of hope....and hope isn't a plan.

Scandrick is a slot CB, that's it that's all. Health cannot be no worse than Wilcox but I think he's more suited for FS instead but we have Jones there.

Like I said we should probably take a look at TJ McDonald at SS and use Health for Dime packages.

 

[AsthmaField]

Agreed.

Heath came from a small school and was raw, but the instincts and talent have been showing; I think the coaches feel they can rely on him more, and Byron is already solid. Scandrick should now be 100%, and Brown is already reliable.

So, the FO assessed its current talent, their future costs and risks of their departure, and made a rational ROI decision. The departure of all 4 DBs has been predicted for some time, and even screamed for by some in this forum. As many expected, the lure of a bigger contract has drawn them away from the system they know; and appropriately, a negotiator will factor in those ill-defined costs of leaving. If a player chooses to stay, he can be commended for his loyalty and presumed chemistry with the team.

Conversely, if a player is a captain, cornerstone, foundational player and leader for the team -- the kind that may be destined for the ROH -- you match the big offers and keep them, unless age and injury have begun to taint the assessed value (DWare comes to mind).

So, I'll say it again -- it's all about return on investment, the intelligent evaluation of that, and the use of all such data to make the most prescient decisions. This includes the evaluation of athletic ability, football talent, coachability, intelligence, character, durabilty, system fit, etc. vs the contracted cost of said talent.

Some are better than others at this process, and we will never know the details (though all of us couch GM's want to be there).

I think the FO has shown yearly improvement, and I'm content to let them do their job without any trash talking. So, I'm going to be confident in their draft big board and the choices that it dictates they make as the draft unfolds. I'm simply anxious to see what athletes we get, and how the team looks by September.

I do hope we go SS and CB with the first 2 picks, but we'll see how it falls. Those positions are on the field more than an edge rusher, so I value them higher.

Very nicely done.

People were screaming for Carr, Wilcox, and Claiborne to go... and some were for Church. The only thing that saved him was the fact that he was originally an UDFA and cost next to nothing (although it didn't help Romo any).

Point is, had they "kept" those guys, they would have spent a **** ton on players that the fans wanted to go anyway. It makes sense to just start over when you're not losing much to begin with.

 

[AsthmaField]

Scandrick is a slot CB, that's it that's all. Health cannot be no worse than Wilcox but I think he's more suited for FS instead but we have Jones there.

Like I said we should probably take a look at TJ McDonald at SS and use Health for Dime packages.

I think Heath can play SS. He's a load when he arrives in the run game.

However, I agree that he might be more of a FS type if you had both spots open. IMO though, he can play SS and is better than McDonald. I've been banging the drum for Heath for about two years now. He's a really athletic, smart player who can physically do anything Church and Wilcox can do, plus some (Wilcox was a bigger hitter though).

 

[silver]

http://cowboyszone.com/threads/rebooting-the-secondary.337051/

I've long believed that this secondary was rubbish. I think they have been part of the problem for a long time, but for some reason, we kept dumping the same resources in year after year expecting improvement.

I think they've made the right choice to let this corners and safeties go, but without first addressing the defensive line, I fear any investment will not yield maximum potential. To begin with the secondary first seems fairly backward to me.

I'm glad we didn't resign Jack Crawford. To me, that is settling for mediocre play on the defensive line. If he's one of your best players, you have a problem.

What do we have to work with

Maliek Collins , DT - Might be a complete find. Could turn into a cornerstone player.
Stephen Paea, DT - Clear sign that they don't want to rebuild the defensive line this year. Paea is a stop gap player brought in because he has played for Marinelli.
Cedric Thornton , DT - Decent depth, but should not be starting.
Tyrone Crawford, DT - Overpaid, will likely move on from him after this year.

Demarcus Lawrence, DE - Decent defensive end, but can't stay healthy. Thinking we will probably move on from him after next year.
David Irving, DE - Potential breakout player. Could turn into a cornerstone player.
Benson Mayowa, DE - Came on stronger towards the end of the year.
Damontre, Moore, DE - Backup defensive end
Charles Tapper, DE - 3rd round draft pick, coming off an injury.
Randy Gregory, DE - Won't even be eligible to play until the end of the regular season. Shouldn't be considered a member of the team until he actually yields production and stays out of trouble.

My guess is the front office is probably a lot more comfortable with our defensive line than us fans are. I think that would be really disappointing, though. I think they might look to add one defensive end potentially through the draft or via trade, but I would not be surprised to see them focus entirely on the secondary and potentially at right tackle.

We need to revisit this topic after the draft and the post June 1st cuts. The off-season isn't over until the day all teams cut down to 53. Until then, any off-season evaluation is premature IMHO.

 

[lukin2006]

We were 26th against the pass, then losing the players we are losing...I don't see the big deal, neither Carr or MO was a ball hawking corner...actually our only secondary player that gets turnovers is Heath, and he's back...if your defensive backfield sucks, then rebuild it.

 

[AsthmaField]

You want a SS to challenge Heath? Just draft Josh Jones out of N. Carolina State.

Dude is a missile and a very good athlete. Had he been on Alabama, Michigan, LSU, etc. he would be a household name.

As it is Dallas might could get him with their second pick.

 

[Kaiser]

I read a post on a different site saying the same thing about Nolan carrol and Brandon Carr. I read that signing NC and letting BC walk was because NC is a zone corner and fits the scheme better.

They are placing a round peg in a round hole in other words.

The other issue is Carroll is much better on deep balls than Carr. Brandon Carr was a lot better than he was given credit for here, though obviously not as good as his paycheck said he should be. But Carr's biggest weakness was deep balls and that is apparently a strength of Carroll.

 

[Blackspider214]

That right there is the what separates great FOs from others. Take the Patriots as an example, they are always maneuvering, anticipating and proactively putting themselves in position to never be caught slipping. The moves they made this offseason were deftly made to allow them to strike while irons hot with the window on Brady's career closing.

Patriots get the max they can out of a guy on a cheaper contract and let him have his payday somewhere else. We are the complete opposite. Our front office has absolutely no vision or plan when it comes to the defense. They got the offense right but have struck out on pretty much every single defensive move.