I do not see any difference between that play and the Dez play in 2014 *merged*

OmerV said:
You are shortcutting the rule. A player either has to establish himself as a runner, or maintain control all the way through the catch. Dez did neither. You can't establish yourself as a runner while falling to the ground.
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According to the rules at the time you can.
 
cowboyec said:
Dez caught it.
We all know it.
He got screwed cause he's a Cowboy.
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He didn’t get screwed for running out on the field with his helmet off and arguing with officials before they decided to pick up the flag for PI against the Cowboys in the Detroit game. I wonder if their fans srill cry as much about a play that happened that many years ago.
 
CPanther95 said:
Exactly. Look at Dez the moment his 2nd foot hit the ground and try to make the case that he's not heading to the ground regardless. That's the futile case you'd have to make.
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No you wouldn't. Item 1 applies to a player who goes to the ground (goes down, hits ground, etc.), not a player who "is heading" to the ground or is falling. What would be futile, however, is to look at a replay and try to say, "There! That's the point when he starts falling!"

Officials need a clear dividing line to make their decisions. "A player goes to the ground" could only mean "a player hits the ground." Interpreting it as "falls" is the biggest reason we're in the current mess. It was never meant as "falls," and when you think about it, there was never any reason for it to be.
 

The rule clearly says he has to establish himself as a runner, and not a single one of your personal rules (not necessarily NFL rules) indicates he did anything to establish himself as a runner.

Part of the problem is fans get caught up in this "football move" idea, which (A) isn't even how the rule reads, and (B) is misunderstood as to intent anyway. The idea isn't just to do something you see a football player do sometimes, the idea is that a player has to have his feet under him enough that he can maneuver - make a cut, try and avoid a defender etc ... merely changing hands with the ball or twisting your body as you fall to the ground does not establish that kind of control. The alternative to having that kind of control is to maintain possession all the way through the catch.
 
aria said:
He didn’t get screwed for running out on the field with his helmet off and arguing with officials before they decided to pick up the flag for PI against the Cowboys in the Detroit game. I wonder if their fans srill cry as much about a play that happened that many years ago.
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I could care less about other fans.
Dallas got screwed by a bad call...just like in Super Bowl V.
 
KJJ said:
You did mention me to another poster where I received a notification. Calling out someone is considered a personal attack. Better read the rules that were just posted not long ago about mentioning posters. :thumbup:
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:thumbdown:
 
OmerV said:
The rule clearly says he has to establish himself as a runner, and not a single one of your personal rules (not necessarily NFL rules) indicates he did anything to establish himself as a runner. HMMMMM.... Three steps is called running.

Part of the problem is fans get caught up in this "football move" idea, which (A) isn't even how the rule reads, and (B) is misunderstood as to intent anyway. The idea isn't just to do something you see a football player do sometimes, the idea is that a player has to have his feet under him enough that he can maneuver - make a cut, try and avoid a defender etc ... merely changing hands with the ball or twisting your body as you fall to the ground does not establish that kind of control. The alternative to having that kind of control is to maintain possession all the way through the catch.
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You claim not only to fully understand the rule, you also claim to understand the intent. The intent of the NFL doesn't matter, only what they write in the rule book does. As written, DOWN BY CONTACT overrides their feeble attempt to change what a catch is.

For example, "completing the process of going to the ground." That process was complete when Dez's first foot hit the ground, there is no, and never has been a definition from the NFL that states otherwise.

The NFL has a souped up PR department, that smooths over tampering with a playoff game. They verbally tried to rewrite the written rule that year, to no avail. By rule, Dez caught it. That PR trash, is all they've done. Blandino doesn't know a thing about the rules he presided over. The written rules gave him no right to call in from New York and change how that Dallas drive ended.
 
The one that wasn't a catch was the TD in the back of the end zone.
The 2nd one was a catch, as he became a runner.
 
percyhoward said:
No you wouldn't. Item 1 applies to a player who goes to the ground (goes down, hits ground, etc.), not a player who "is heading" to the ground or is falling.
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Your interpretation, is exactly that, yours....not the NFL's. From the Calvin catch to the Dez catch, they called multiple plays the same way. If you are heading to the ground in the process of completing the catch, then they don't consider it a catch until you maintain control after hitting the ground.

You're creating a narrow interpretation to make it a catch and ignoring not just the intent of the rule, but how it was actually applied.
 
romothesavior said:
Dez took multiple steps and lunged forward. What the hell are you talking about
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Agreed. Dez caught the ball at the 6-yard line, I believe, turned and twisted and "lunged" for the goal line.
There's actually audio/video of him saying so himself.
 
Mr_C said:
According to the rules at the time you can.
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I looked up the 2014 rule. It actually does not indicate a player can establish himself as a runner while going to the ground, in fact, the shortcoming of the rule is it doesn't go that extra step of even discussing a player establishing himself as a runner. It does, however, contain a rule about a player "going to the ground", and sets out that a player in that situation has to maintain possession all the way through. It just doesn't have a very clear definition of what "going to the ground" means. The difference with the rule now is, again, that it goes that extra step of talking about the receiver establishing himself as a runner.
 
nathanlt said:
You claim not only to fully understand the rule, you also claim to understand the intent. The intent of the NFL doesn't matter, only what they write in the rule book does. As written, DOWN BY CONTACT overrides their feeble attempt to change what a catch is.

For example, "completing the process of going to the ground." That process was complete when Dez's first foot hit the ground, there is no, and never has been a definition from the NFL that states otherwise.

The NFL has a souped up PR department, that smooths over tampering with a playoff game. They verbally tried to rewrite the written rule that year, to no avail. By rule, Dez caught it. That PR trash, is all they've done. Blandino doesn't know a thing about the rules he presided over. The written rules gave him no right to call in from New York and change how that Dallas drive ended.
Click to expand...

No, the process wasn't complete when Dez's first foot hit the ground, because the rule clearly stats that 2 feet have to come down. There also was a rule in 2014, and more clearly defined today, about a player "going to the ground" and the necessity of having to maintain possession all the way through in that situation. If you want to go specifically by what they write, that's how it is written.
 
OmerV said:
I looked up the 2014 rule. It actually does not indicate a player can establish himself as a runner while going to the ground, in fact, the shortcoming of the rule is it doesn't go that extra step of even discussing a player establishing himself as a runner. It does, however, contain a rule about a player "going to the ground", and sets out that a player in that situation has to maintain possession all the way through. It just doesn't have a very clear definition of what "going to the ground" means. The difference with the rule now is, again, that it goes that extra step of talking about the receiver establishing himself as a runner.
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1. Control
2. Two feet down
3. Time to make a football move

After those are satisfied he’s a runner.
 
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