I give. Let's talk Zeke money

[Sydla]

No it doesn't.. People post here every day that you can get better backs than Zeke in the 6th or 7th round that will cost you next to nothing.. If I'm not mistaken Zeke is making less this season than he would have made on his 5th year option.. which the Cowboys undoubtedly would have picked up. His salary is 6.8 mil. His cap hit this year is 10.9 mil and goes to 13.7 next year. Then 16.5 in 2022 but none of that is guaranteed. If he returns to form next year the salary will be a bargain.. If not they can move on in 2022 with relatively little impact. Why people seem to wanna freak out over these things is baffling to me. I hate to break to you guys but just because YOU want a player gone doesn't mean the team has to..

1) You are wrong about his 5th year. His 5th year cap hit under his rookie deal in 2020 would have been just over $9 million. His cap hit now in 2020 is $10.9 million. And the Cowboys did pick up his 5th year option but that was renegotiated in his new contract.

2) Salary doesn't really matter in terms of roster construction. Cap number matters.

3) You are wrong about his 2022 numbers not being guaranteed. If he's on the roster the 5th day of the 2021 league year, his base salary of $12.4 million becomes guaranteed.

The reality is Elliott eating up anywhere from $12-16 million in cap space with how he is playing now is not a good thing for the Cowboys and absolutely hinders, at some level, the ability to work a roster. It's bizarre that one would argue a player eating up a huge chunk of salary cap and isn't performing would not have an effect on being able to improve a roster by bringing in different players.

 

[Sydla]

What do you think Jerry would do (roster-wise) if the cap were to drop that drastically over one off season? I know it’s unrelated to this thread, but I'm curious to hear your take

My guess? They'd likely have to restructure a few guys - Lawrence, Martin, maybe even Elliott? They likely be less active in FA, at least in the higher priced and mid tier guys, filling out the roster with bargain bin guys. They are probably going to have to count on a lot of rookies on the roster too, which is why it's nice we have a couple of comp picks in the 3rd and 4th rounds to add to our regular picks. Getting Dak signed to an extension would probably result in a much lower cap hit in 2021 than the $37 million cap hit they are staring at under the franchise tag.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I get the point you’re trying to make. In the present tense (the current season, game to game, etc), we as fans have no control over the salary cap or salaries. So I agree with there. The $ doesn’t necessarily “matter” and doesn’t have an affect on games. We cheer for victories and that’s about it.

But I n the long term, the salary cap does matter and to me, as a fan, it helps to be as informed as possible. I consider the consequences/constrictions that contracts might have because if the front office invests in the wrong players, we won’t be seeing many victories. That’s what I mean when I say that “caring” about the cap does matter

"informed". Why? for what use? To agree with people or argue?
"Informed" matters when you have a say...like elections. And there, unfortunately...too many people don't truly use "information".

We don't really have a say...it's all very futile and no value.

Other than that...we're good.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

LOL.

So basically, just watch games and shut up. Don't discuss your favorite team (unless you want be a total homer like you are), don't point out flaws, don't criticize players, don't question the roster, etc.

I think as long as we understand...this kind of topic (money contracts) is pure moot. Chit chat. To draw a hard line in the sand about it...is silliness.

I cheer on my team AND chew their @ ss when it's deserved.

 

[G2]

That's part of my disappointment with Zeke. There should be no comparison whatsoever. Zeke should hands down blow him out of the water. Morris that year had to play the 6 games Zeke was suspended. The first 3 were when the line was at its absolute worst with injuries and Chaz Green was a turnstile. Morris also faced a greater percentage of his rushes with 8+ in the box than Zeke faced that year. If we're going to spend premium resources on a generational running back, we need that dude to be generational.

Just not a good enough comparison IMO.

 

[RonnieT24]

You should care about how much a player makes and how much cap space he eats up. That has a direct effect on how flexible a team can be with their roster, how they can build a team, etc.

Nope.. It's not my job to manage the salary cap.. Besides.. I have never once said I don't care about the salary cap.. What I have said is that I don't care how much an individual player makes.. The team can construct deals such that they can be managed under the cap and the players can get paid fair market value. It aint rocket surgery. You guys wanna get bent out of shape over who makes what percentage. Fine I can't stop you.. But you will never drag me down that rabbit hole. If one guy is making X you subtract it from the cap and keep moving. This team had enough cap space to sign Byron Jones at the end of last year but chose not to.. Because he doesn't make plays.. It was a risk that has mostly backfired on them. But it was their move to make. This team could have signed Dak Prescott for 25 million a year three years ago.. but chose not to.. And many of you screamed even then that he was not worth it. Now it's going to cost them closer to 40 million a year to get him.. and surprise surprise.. most of you are still singing that tune.. I think I would respect these people's opinions more if they just came out and said they don't want him to be the QB of the Cowboys and tell us why instead of dancing around the reasons why. As much as people seem to hate Zeke they should respect his having the good sense to not allow the team to screw with him like it did with Murray, Dez, Lawrence and now Dak.. He had earned a raise.. a big one based on his play. Debate all you want as to how big a raise.. but I doubt even the most avid Zeke hater would deny he had one coming. Just because some idiot on the internet hates him and wants him off the team means less than zero to me. He's signed, he plays my favorite position on my favorite team.. So I'm going to root like hell for him.. You want to root against him and scream for him to be gone.. Enjoy.. I don't care.

 

[starfan1]

I hate to break to you guys but just because YOU want a player gone doesn't mean the team has to..

I was going to post a link similar to what Sydia did but since he did you get part of my response and just because YOU want to keep a player that is underwhelming and he isn't the only doesn't mean its the right thing to do. It was a mistake to draft him where we did and dumber yet extending him. The only way he returns to form is if the offensive line returns to form because any number of people could have put up the numbers he did. In fact a few would have exceeded them. And the reason he excelled was because the offensive line was a powerhouse.

 

[Sydla]

Nope.. It's not my job to manage the salary cap.. Besides.. I have never once said I don't care about the salary cap.. What I have said is that I don't care how much an individual player makes.. The team can construct deals such that they can be managed under the cap and the players can get paid fair market value. It aint rocket surgery. You guys wanna get bent out of shape over who makes what percentage. Fine I can't stop you.. But you will never drag me down that rabbit hole. If one guy is making X you subtract it from the cap and keep moving. This team had enough cap space to sign Byron Jones at the end of last year but chose not to.. Because he doesn't make plays.. It was a risk that has mostly backfired on them. But it was their move to make. This team could have signed Dak Prescott for 25 million a year three years ago.. but chose not to.. And many of you screamed even then that he was not worth it. Now it's going to cost them closer to 40 million a year to get him.. and surprise surprise.. most of you are still singing that tune.. I think I would respect these people's opinions more if they just came out and said they don't want him to be the QB of the Cowboys and tell us why instead of dancing around the reasons why. As much as people seem to hate Zeke they should respect his having the good sense to not allow the team to screw with him like it did with Murray, Dez, Lawrence and now Dak.. He had earned a raise.. a big one based on his play. Debate all you want as to how big a raise.. but I doubt even the most avid Zeke hater would deny he had one coming. Just because some idiot on the internet hates him and wants him off the team means less than zero to me. He's signed, he plays my favorite position on my favorite team.. So I'm going to root like hell for him.. You want to root against him and scream for him to be gone.. Enjoy.. I don't care.

What a player "makes" is directly tied to the cap. Trying to separate the two is pretty silly.

And I don't "hate him" or scream for him to be gone. When someone makes that point, you know you can't have a serious discussion with them.

It's nothing personal with him. I would have the same feelings if our TB was Elliott or Barkley or Cook or Kamara or McCaffery. I think investing a lot of cap space into a TB is a mistake. Teams have shown time and time again that they can be highly successful and build competent, successful running games without using the resources we used on Elliott. It's one of the more fungible positions in football and also one that has arguably the widest disparity in performances year to year given the wear and tear of the position.

And I don't want him "gone" now because the cap implications are too severe at this point. We have to ride him for another season or two. But the fact I don't want him gone today doesn't take away from the reality that spending what we did on a TB, any TB, was a mistake.

The contract would be palatable if Zeke still looked that player we saw in 2016-17 - explosive, home run ability, etc. He's clearly not that same player anymore.

 

[RonnieT24]

1) You are wrong about his 5th year. His 5th year cap hit under his rookie deal in 2020 would have been just over $9 million. His cap hit now in 2020 is $10.9 million. And the Cowboys did pick up his 5th year option but that was renegotiated in his new contract.

2) Salary doesn't really matter in terms of roster construction. Cap number matters.

3) You are wrong about his 2022 numbers not being guaranteed. If he's on the roster the 5th day of the 2021 league year, his base salary of $12.4 million becomes guaranteed.

The reality is Elliott eating up anywhere from $12-16 million in cap space with how he is playing now is not a good thing for the Cowboys and absolutely hinders, at some level, the ability to work a roster. It's bizarre that one would argue a player eating up a huge chunk of salary cap and isn't performing would not have an effect on being able to improve a roster by bringing in different players.

More bizarre is that you have the ability to look at the actual cap numbers in plain black and white yet still post "anywhere from...." The cap hit is 10.9 million. Not "anywhere from blank to blank.. " It's 10.9 million. And it still doesn't matter to me.. How he plays matters to me.. How much he is paid does not. I am not saying YOU specifically hate Zeke.. but there is clearly a segment of this fan base that does. Some have even come forward and admitted as much. Seems like a lot of emotional energy wasted on someone you've never met but to each his own. I have also not argued that one player's salary does not impact the team's ability to improve the roster.. Sure it does.. but it does not STOP it from doing so. This team has redone guys' deals for two decades to make it possible for them to bring in and/or sign guys. They will do so again.. Maybe even with Zeke.. If they hit on the people they sign it will be great.. if they whiff it won't.. I have no control over how it works out .. I can only watch.. just like I do with what goes on on the field. The difference is I get to watch them play.. I don't get to watch them pick up their paychecks.. nor do I care to.

 

[Sydla]

More bizarre is that you have the ability to look at the actual cap numbers in plain black and white yet still post "anywhere from...." The cap hit is 10.9 million. Not "anywhere from blank to blank.. " It's 10.9 million. And it still doesn't matter to me.. How he plays matters to me.. How much he is paid does not. I am not saying YOU specifically hate Zeke.. but there is clearly a segment of this fan base that does. Some have even come forward and admitted as much. Seems like a lot of emotional energy wasted on someone you've never met but to each his own. I have also not argued that one player's salary does not impact the team's ability to improve the roster.. Sure it does.. but it does not STOP it from doing so. This team has redone guys' deals for two decades to make it possible for them to bring in and/or sign guys. They will do so again.. Maybe even with Zeke.. If they hit on the people they sign it will be great.. if they whiff it won't.. I have no control over how it works out .. I can only watch.. just like I do with what goes on on the field. The difference is I get to watch them play.. I don't get to watch them pick up their paychecks.. nor do I care to.

I am talking about his range of cap hits over a period of a few years that we may would him on the roster (2020 through 2022). You shouldn't be lecturing anyone on contracts when you have repeatedly said wrong things about his contract, like how he has no guaranteed money in 2022 (he actually would if he's still on the roster in 2022).

No one has ever argued that a team can't change the roster because of Elliott's contract. That's a a strawman you created. What people have said is that a TB (or really any position for that matter) eating up a huge chunk of cap space and is not performing in line with the expectations that comes with the contract, does, in fact, place limitations on what a team can do in an offseason roster wise.

Elliott playing the way he is now eating up big chunks of cap space the next 2-3 seasons, does in fact, hurt the Cowboys ability to be more active in FA, etc.

 

[blueblood70]

So you don’t care if the Cowboys win or lose? You watch them just to pass time and have cooler talk opportunities?

Because if you do care about the Cowboys team success, you’re obligated to consider salary cap and how much (%) an individual’s contract is taking — especially if that individual(s) is underperforming.

I honestly can’t believe I’m even having to defend my line of thought. This isn’t Major League Baseball where you can just pay a penalty for investing beyond the cap. It’s a hard cap, and if a guy making a ton of that cap money isn’t performing well, it affects opportunities for success

win or lose is on the field fan stuff , behind the scenes money NOPE..i see teams like KC who found aa way to pay all their guys..period the cap is a myth, in the fact that teams dont know how to get around it with language and structure. I see teams allegedly have 900k left on their cap and somehow sign 3 big FAs..

so win or lose yes but how the players get to the field and what they make is 100% absolutely not fan thing..you thinking that shows you are the issue around forums thinking somehow you know more about football operations then the actual FO, Owners, Gms and a team of lawyers and CPAs,,got it..egomaniacal know it all..thats whats wrong with the fan base..they THINK AND FEEL TOO Much, stiff their noses in places that shouldnt be concern for fans..it never used to be until the internet, SM, and other media sources opened all that information up for debate..

 

[blueblood70]

More bizarre is that you have the ability to look at the actual cap numbers in plain black and white yet still post "anywhere from...." The cap hit is 10.9 million. Not "anywhere from blank to blank.. " It's 10.9 million. And it still doesn't matter to me.. How he plays matters to me.. How much he is paid does not. I am not saying YOU specifically hate Zeke.. but there is clearly a segment of this fan base that does. Some have even come forward and admitted as much. Seems like a lot of emotional energy wasted on someone you've never met but to each his own. I have also not argued that one player's salary does not impact the team's ability to improve the roster.. Sure it does.. but it does not STOP it from doing so. This team has redone guys' deals for two decades to make it possible for them to bring in and/or sign guys. They will do so again.. Maybe even with Zeke.. If they hit on the people they sign it will be great.. if they whiff it won't.. I have no control over how it works out .. I can only watch.. just like I do with what goes on on the field. The difference is I get to watch them play.. I don't get to watch them pick up their paychecks.. nor do I care to.

exactly!

 

[Loso86]

it was a stupid contract and we cant get out of it until 2022 without significant cap implications and because the offensive line has regressed so has he because of this and because of wear and tear to his body. stupid pick and stupid extension but Jerry is not a stranger to these.

and youre right it isnt my money but impacts the team that I root for and their ability to get better. if they are going to overpay players it should to a different position

I'm almost sure nothing they do financially will hinder what THEY want to do to improve. Wasnt a stupid pick especially at the time. He helped the O and D especially in year 1

 

[starfan1]

I'm almost sure nothing they do financially will hinder what THEY want to do to improve. Wasnt a stupid pick especially at the time. He helped the O and D especially in year 1

sure he did but it wouldn't have mattered who they plugged in there skillset wise (well to a degree anyway it didn't need to be pick 4) he was the 3rd RB in a row to excel because it was the best OLINE in the league pretty much 4 years running. The wise move would have been to take Ramsey and I cant stand that dude but he would have provided more value.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Why? Until Jerry passes the hat and asks me to help pay a player's salary I am more interested in how much fuel the space shuttle burns than am what a player is getting paid. At least the space shuttle was built and launched with my tax dollars.. Wait.. is that still true now that SpaceX is building and launching them?

Because I think this guy takes a reasonable, rational and factual approach to it. Something I thought we could use here. But I see that kind of stuff is being rejected.

And yes....our tax dollars built Kennedy Space Center, where the wonderful SpaceX is launching from. A great partnership!

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Nope.. It's not my job to manage the salary cap.. Besides.. I have never once said I don't care about the salary cap.. What I have said is that I don't care how much an individual player makes.. The team can construct deals such that they can be managed under the cap and the players can get paid fair market value. It aint rocket surgery. You guys wanna get bent out of shape over who makes what percentage. Fine I can't stop you.. But you will never drag me down that rabbit hole. If one guy is making X you subtract it from the cap and keep moving. This team had enough cap space to sign Byron Jones at the end of last year but chose not to.. Because he doesn't make plays.. It was a risk that has mostly backfired on them. But it was their move to make. This team could have signed Dak Prescott for 25 million a year three years ago.. but chose not to.. And many of you screamed even then that he was not worth it. Now it's going to cost them closer to 40 million a year to get him.. and surprise surprise.. most of you are still singing that tune.. I think I would respect these people's opinions more if they just came out and said they don't want him to be the QB of the Cowboys and tell us why instead of dancing around the reasons why. As much as people seem to hate Zeke they should respect his having the good sense to not allow the team to screw with him like it did with Murray, Dez, Lawrence and now Dak.. He had earned a raise.. a big one based on his play. Debate all you want as to how big a raise.. but I doubt even the most avid Zeke hater would deny he had one coming. Just because some idiot on the internet hates him and wants him off the team means less than zero to me. He's signed, he plays my favorite position on my favorite team.. So I'm going to root like hell for him.. You want to root against him and scream for him to be gone.. Enjoy.. I don't care.

These guys care SO much what a player makes.

Um..no they don;t. Only a player they hate. And never a player UNDERpaid. All agenda.

(PS...not ALL of them....you can tell who)

 

[Loso86]

sure he did but it wouldn't have mattered who they plugged in there skillset wise (well to a degree anyway it didn't need to be pick 4) he was the 3rd RB in a row to excel because it was the best OLINE in the league pretty much 4 years running. The wise move would have been to take Ramsey and I cant stand that dude but he would have provided more value.

at the time and foreseeable future Zeke was more overall value. I hear what your saying. But some of the things Zeke was doing could not be replicated

 

[starfan1]

at the time and foreseeable future Zeke was more overall value. I hear what your saying. But some of the things Zeke was doing could not be replicated

Than Ramsey? you're kidding right? like what? The only think Zeke had on anybody was his blocking and Im not so sure that hasnt been overblown but at least Ill give him that. Maybe durability! His supposed pass catching premise was a farce he is no better than others that I've noticed and he cant carry Kamara's jock. He shouldn't have been the 4th pick and he damn sure shouldn't have been extended a year early. No burst cant hold on to the ball now.

what i will give him somewhat of a pass on is he cant control how bad the oline has regressed.

 

[Kaiser]

Why another Zeke thread, it will just bring out the same old comments from the walls. I guess people like to hear themselves whine.

We are two weeks away from a "Ancient Aliens" episode completely about Zeke.

 

[John813]

We are two weeks away from a "Ancient Aliens" episode completely about Zeke.

Bring in Giorgio Tsoukalos and I'll watch it