If Hayden was replaced with a superior 1 Tech player

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The Hayden thing reminds me a lot of when Proctor played.

We all knew he sucked. Then you had a bunch of people saying that he really did, but did not want to look at the real reasons why.

If you hate Hayden, you have to admit that you disagree, rather strongly, with Marinelli.

There is no middle ground here.

So then you get into that little debate where someone goes "you think you know more than the coaches?"

Pretty entertaining to watch people pick out the little craptastic players they seem to find as faults but fail to acknowledge that that coaches they revere as geniuses are directly responsible for them even being around.

I still don't think I know more than Marinelli. And you don't seem to understand the difference between finding a something in a particular instance and casting blame and judgments. I can separate my emotional response and can get over myself.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The Hayden thing reminds me a lot of when Proctor played.

We all knew he sucked. Then you had a bunch of people saying that he really did, but did not want to look at the real reasons why.

If you hate Hayden, you have to admit that you disagree, rather strongly, with Marinelli.

There is no middle ground here.

So then you get into that little debate where someone goes "you think you know more than the coaches?"

Pretty entertaining to watch people pick out the little craptastic players they seem to find as faults but fail to acknowledge that that coaches they revere as geniuses are directly responsible for them even being around.

I would also point out that that is an interesting characterization of the board back then. i seem to recall a stream of gifs of bad plays from Proctor that made the whole issue you claim no one acknowledged moot. Him not getting out of his stance was a favorite.

 

[Alexander]

I still don't think I know more than Marinelli. And you don't seem to understand the difference between finding a something in a particular instance and casting blame and judgments. I can separate my emotional response and can get over myself.

You also don't comprehend simple truth. There was nothing stopping Marinelli from getting a better player than Hayden.

We have the owner who will do anything to win, right?

So explain the paradox.

Gosh darn it, we just couldn't address everything?

If that is the case, say so.

 

[Alexander]

I would also point out that that is an interesting characterization of the board back then. i seem to recall a stream of gifs of bad plays from Proctor that made the whole issue you claim no one acknowledged moot. Him not getting out of his stance was a favorite.

The "real reason" was not about him being a poor player. The "real reason" was because we had a clearly poor player on the roster like he was on a scholarship.

Costa was the same way.

There always seems to be these players, but when anyone questions why they are around, you do not get much of a response.

 

[jobberone]

Let Hardy go and spend that $13m on LB and S where the prices aren't so high. PT Barnum needs to put his circus away. Suh is the most expensive defender in the league and if you want to get that then selecting Nkemdiche is a low cost alternative and a good investment. The Cowboys have already demonstrated the effectiveness of stacking your lines.

I would love to see DLaw Nkemdiche Crawford Gregory. Bring back Mincey, Crawford, Hayden and a whole lot of UDFA and go.

I just don't think outside of Hayden and Russell none of them have played poorly. Crawford is the most underrated player on this board by a mile.

Agreed.

I would keep Hardy on the cheap with incentives otherwise let him walk. Included is a clause to boot him for being disruptive although I realize that verbage can be difficult.

To the OP I wouldn't pay a lot for a 'better' 1 and we don't need a 0 tech although I understand you aren't calling for that. Some have. You aren't going to get a rush 1 because that is called a rush 3.

This D needs rush from all the DL and we should have the edge rushers to do the job now if they are all healthy. Adding another rush 3 or edge rusher would be great in the draft. We need a WLB, MLB, at least one good safety and CB.

We need to draft a S preferably in the top 20 and at least top 50. We need a CB in the first three rounds that is not just a cover CB but can tackle as well.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You also don't comprehend simple truth. There was nothing stopping Marinelli from getting a better player than Hayden.

We have the owner who will do anything to win, right?

So explain the paradox.

Gosh darn it, we just couldn't address everything?

If that is the case, say so.

If you want to get right down to it the NFL handles player acquisitions submission from only a select list of signatories. IOW, if Marinelli wants to get any particular player then he has to go through the Joneses or maybe McClay, or Garrett. That is just a structural reality that invalidates your notion that Marinelli can do what he want. At the end of the day we don't know how that dynamic works and that's okay. You go ahead and blame away.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The "real reason" was not about him being a poor player. The "real reason" was because we had a clearly poor player on the roster like he was on a scholarship.

Costa was the same way.

There always seems to be these players, but when anyone questions why they are around, you do not get much of a response.

Sorry but Costa had a couple good games. Against the Lions and again against Baltimore. Can you name one good game Proctor had?

You just fly by the seat of your pants don't you? And then you go with that mindset. Nice.

 

[Bluefin]

Then they cut Coleman and Bishop. What a cluster!

Same here.

Davon Coleman's lackluster attitude was widely reported, but I was hoping the light had come on for him this training camp/pre-season. He looked like he was ready to be a rotational player prior to getting waived, so he must not have shown enough during practices and meetings.

David Irving was signed the day after Coleman was sacked, and he's an interesting player, although there are character flags. Irving has some pass rush ability but is soft against the run. Coleman could play UT and NT while Irving is only an UT.

NT Ken Bishop was a pet cat of mine.

Bishop remains a free agent at this time, so I'm hopeful he might be re-signed following the season on a futures contract.

Nick Hayden needs to be replaced next year.

 

[Alexander]

If you want to get right down to it the NFL handles player acquisitions submission from only a select list of signatories. IOW, if Marinelli wants to get any particular player then he has to go through the Joneses or maybe McClay, or Garrett. That is just a structural reality that invalidates your notion that Marinelli can do what he want. At the end of the day we don't know how that dynamic works and that's okay. You go ahead and blame away.

LOL

Signatories.

Anyways, you continue to refuse to answer any questions directly and prefer to slid your glasses up your nose like Brainy Smurf.

Hey, whatever happened to "Fuzzy Thoughts"? Do you reserve those only from when we are winning?

 

[jobberone]

The "real reason" was not about him being a poor player. The "real reason" was because we had a clearly poor player on the roster like he was on a scholarship.

Costa was the same way.

There always seems to be these players, but when anyone questions why they are around, you do not get much of a response.

I don't agree here. Hayden is a 1. He's not a 3 so you are very unlikely to find a 1 who can really rush and/or push the pocket. Those are unusual players.

This thing about Hayden getting pushed around is the same as all the DL. The price you pay for playing gaps is a team can take you the way you are leaning if they have the right play at the right time. If you get blocked in your flank you are going to be driven. We don't play st8 up or even shaded much so you are going to see the entire line collapse at times and that is just part of the scheme. There are weaknesses in a D playing two gaps as well.

We don't want to pay a lot for a 1. Spend it on your 3s and 5s or your LBs/DBs.

 

[waving monkey]

I do think Marinelli gets what he whats.If he can make his case.

 

[Alexander]

Sorry but Costa had a couple good games. Against the Lions and again against Baltimore. Can you name one good game Proctor had?

You just fly by the seat of your pants don't you? And then you go with that mindset. Nice.

You got me. I got my suck linemen confused. Should have led off with Costa, but I have a feeling you probably would be saying the exact same nonsense that nobody else really understands.

 

[jobberone]

Same here.

Davon Coleman's lackluster attitude was widely reported, but I was hoping the light had come on for him this training camp/pre-season. He looked like he was ready to be a rotational player prior to getting waived, so he must not have shown enough during practices and meetings.

David Irving was signed the day after Coleman was sacked, and he's an interesting player, although there are character flags. Irving has some pass rush ability but is soft against the run. Coleman could play UT and NT while Irving is only an UT.

NT Ken Bishop was a pet cat of mine.

Bishop remains a free agent at this time, so I'm hopeful he might be re-signed following the season on a futures contract.

Nick Hayden needs to be replaced next year.

If you can replace Hayden on the cheap with a better 1 like Coleman or even Bishop then great. I just wouldn't advocate spending significant bucks on a 1.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

LOL

Signatories.

Anyways, you continue to refuse to answer any questions directly and prefer to slid your glasses up your nose like Brainy Smurf.

Hey, whatever happened to "Fuzzy Thoughts"? Do you reserve those only from when we are winning?

yeah signatories. It's in the CBA at least the prior one. If you want to laugh at me because I read that then go right ahead. you'll still be wrong.

we won the first two games of the season and then of course there is the preseason. keep flailing.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You got me. I got my suck linemen confused. Should have led off with Costa, but I have a feeling you probably would be saying the exact same nonsense that nobody else really understands.

several people have quoted me already and I'm having conversations with them too. you should try this line when I'm not talking to other people too. it just makes you seem bitter with an axe to grind and nothing else to offer.

 

[Alexander]

I don't agree here. Hayden is a 1. He's not a 3 so you are very unlikely to find a 1 who can really rush and/or push the pocket. Those are unusual players.

This thing about Hayden getting pushed around is the same as all the DL. The price you pay for playing gaps is a team can take you the way you are leaning if they have the right play at the right time. If you get blocked in your flank you are going to be driven. We don't play st8 up or even shaded much so you are going to see the entire line collapse at times and that is just part of the scheme. There are weaknesses in a D playing two gaps as well.

We don't want to pay a lot for a 1. Spend it on your 3s and 5s or your LBs/DBs.

Jobber, I know you feel compelled to get involved here, but I really have no idea why.

First, the fact he is a 1-technique or a 3-technique is irrelevant.

We were just talking general suckitude here.

Not technical prowess which for the most part is silly if you watch a player that can't play.

Sometimes players just are not very good.

And what is so funny about this process is that it repeats itself all the time.

Well, Player X is really not that bad. But he kind of does actually suck and I think we should replace him.

Which goes back to my original premise. Why are they here? For multiple seasons?

 

[Alexander]

several people have quoted me already and I'm having conversations with them too. you should try this line when I'm not talking to other people too. it just makes you seem bitter with an axe to grind and nothing else to offer.

So how about some "Fuzzy Thoughts" now?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So how about some "Fuzzy Thoughts" now?

when I conjure up thoughts of what might motivate you to behave in such a manner nothing good comes to mind. I'm going to put you on ignore for awhile and let you calm down.

sorry everyone else for making you deal with this mean-spirited exchange.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Agreed.

I would keep Hardy on the cheap with incentives otherwise let him walk. Included is a clause to boot him for being disruptive although I realize that verbage can be difficult.

To the OP I wouldn't pay a lot for a 'better' 1 and we don't need a 0 tech although I understand you aren't calling for that. Some have. You aren't going to get a rush 1 because that is called a rush 3.

This D needs rush from all the DL and we should have the edge rushers to do the job now if they are all healthy. Adding another rush 3 or edge rusher would be great in the draft. We need a WLB, MLB, at least one good safety and CB.

We need to draft a S preferably in the top 20 and at least top 50. We need a CB in the first three rounds that is not just a cover CB but can tackle as well.

What's weird is that Marinelli has them shifting the DT over a gap and flipping them essentially. Hayden might not be a 3 but he lines up there on plenty of downs because of that shift. If the positions are interchangeable and the 3 tech drives the line then I cannot help but think we need to improve the position.

 

[Alexander]

when I conjure up thoughts of what might motivate you to behave in such a manner nothing good comes to mind. I'm going to put you on ignore for awhile and let you calm down.

sorry everyone else for making you deal with this mean-spirited exchange.

Good idea. Especially when I was involved in a discussion with others, namely Fletch.