Impact of Union Decertification On Cap?

[RiggoForever]

I'm posting this here because its a question I have that I haven't seen answered anywhere, and with a new CBA seeming unlikely by the deadline, and threats of decertification...what are the implications?

If there is no deal...and the Union decertifies...would that in effect terminate what is left of the current CBA, since there is no union? Hence making the 2006 salary cap also irrelevant?

I know if there is no deal and the union is still around that 2007 becomes an upcapped year, but if there is no union then is the 2006 cap still enforcable by the NFL Management?

 

[JeffInDC]

I'm posting this here because its a question I have that I haven't seen answered anywhere, and with a new CBA seeming unlikely by the deadline, and threats of decertification...what are the implications?

If there is no deal...and the Union decertifies...would that in effect terminate what is left of the current CBA, since there is no union? Hence making the 2006 salary cap also irrelevant?

I know if there is no deal and the union is still around that 2007 becomes an upcapped year, but if there is no union then is the 2006 cap still enforcable by the NFL Management?

Riggo, I don't completely know the answer. However, I do know that the actual decertifying of the NFL Player's Union probably won't occur until after the 2007 season. The current CBA ends after the '07 season. What is happening now is an attempt to extend the CBA (with some amendments, of course) so that FA and rookie contracts can be less tricky to complete.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I can't imagine the union breaking up regardless of the threats that Upshaw makes. The union is there for a reason and the players know it greatly protects them. They'd be the only pro sports league without a union, and I can't imagine that happening.

I believe that the CBA eventually gets extended, but it will be after the deadline. The small market owners outweigh the big market owners and the small market owners will get their way in the end. And all Upshaw is really doing is trying to make threats to scare the owners into getting what the union wants. But those threats just seem idle to me.


Rich.........

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I can't imagine the union breaking up regardless of the threats that Upshaw makes. The union is there for a reason and the players know it greatly protects them. They'd be the only pro sports league without a union, and I can't imagine that happening.

I believe that the CBA eventually gets extended, but it will be after the deadline. The small market owners outweigh the big market owners and the small market owners will get their way in the end. And all Upshaw is really doing is trying to make threats to scare the owners into getting what the union wants. But those threats just seem idle to me.


Rich.........

I don't know Rich, the small market guys might not. They need 9 and if the 9 all stay adimant, it then goes to arbitration or some such deal. Who can say what an independant arbitrator might decide if it goes that far.

 

[Wheat]

How do you negotiate with each player? For benefits and all the little things? That's what the union is for.

 

[RiggoForever]

I can't imagine the union breaking up regardless of the threats that Upshaw makes. The union is there for a reason and the players know it greatly protects them. They'd be the only pro sports league without a union, and I can't imagine that happening.

I believe that the CBA eventually gets extended, but it will be after the deadline. The small market owners outweigh the big market owners and the small market owners will get their way in the end. And all Upshaw is really doing is trying to make threats to scare the owners into getting what the union wants. But those threats just seem idle to me.


Rich.........

I hope so, a friend of mine and I were talking earlier about this...and it would seem like if Upshaw succeeded in decertifying the union by 2006, and the process of that begins March 9th...how legally the NFL could enforce teams just breaking the cap left and right immediately? The current CBA involves the NFLPA...if that is decertified I question what would happen to the whole legal framework between the owners and players altogether.

Even as a fan of a cap-strapped team, I don't want this to happen. Its not worth it for the long-term health of the league.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

I'm posting this here because its a question I have that I haven't seen answered anywhere, and with a new CBA seeming unlikely by the deadline, and threats of decertification...what are the implications?

If there is no deal...and the Union decertifies...would that in effect terminate what is left of the current CBA, since there is no union? Hence making the 2006 salary cap also irrelevant?

I know if there is no deal and the union is still around that 2007 becomes an upcapped year, but if there is no union then is the 2006 cap still enforcable by the NFL Management?

You haven't seen it answered because your question makes the supposition that decertification can happen within the framework of an existing bargaining agreement when it typically cannot.

If the NFLPA voted to decertify before the expiration of their current agreement, the NFL would most likely go to the NLRB and win, preventing the decertification until the agreement is over.

Union decertification is a fairly common occurence and is usually not contested by the employer but the usual reason for decertification is malfeasance on behalf of the union representation. When the decertification is an attempt by the union to gain a competitive advantage at future bargaining tables before expiration, the NLRB almost always steps in.

As several have already said. Decertification will not occur before the end of the CBA.

 

[RiggoForever]

You haven't seen it answered because your question makes the supposition that decertification can happen within the framework of an existing bargaining agreement when it typically cannot.

If the NFLPA voted to decertify before the expiration of their current agreement, the NFL would most likely go to the NLRB and win, preventing the decertification until the agreement is over.

Union decertification is a fairly common occurence and is usually not contested by the employer but the usual reason for decertification is malfeasance on behalf of the union representation. When the decertification is an attempt by the union to gain a competitive advantage at future bargaining tables before expiration, the NLRB almost always steps in.

As several have already said. Decertification will not occur before the end of the CBA.

Thanks for the explanation, now I feel reasonably confident I can enjoy football for at least 2 more seasons!

 

[jksmith269]

I don't know the answer but I'm willing to bet that with no new CBA by the end of 06 then there will be no football in 07.....

 

[RiggoForever]

I don't know the answer but I'm willing to bet that with no new CBA by the end of 06 then there will be no football in 07.....

Its an interesting conondrum...the Union has to decertify to prevent a lockout, but that would go against any dreams/hopes they have of an uncapped season.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

I don't know the answer but I'm willing to bet that with no new CBA by the end of 06 then there will be no football in 07.....

I'll take that bet. Name your friendly stakes.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I don't know Rich, the small market guys might not. They need 9 and if the 9 all stay adimant, it then goes to arbitration or some such deal. Who can say what an independant arbitrator might decide if it goes that far.

Yeah, and then those small market owners can band together to lockout the league.

Rich........

 

[jksmith269]

Its an interesting conondrum...the Union has to decertify to prevent a lockout, but that would go against any dreams/hopes they have of an uncapped season.

There was an interview with the commish a few months back last offseason to be exact where he said if there wasn't a CBA in place by the deadline then to expect a strike/lockout for the 07 season. I know a lot of what is said is positioning but look at what happened to Hockey and almost happened to the NBA. we don't need to think just because its the NFL it can't or won't happen. I remember the Scrub players last time we had a long strike.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Its an interesting conondrum...the Union has to decertify to prevent a lockout, but that would go against any dreams/hopes they have of an uncapped season.

Not really. '08 and future years would become uncapped. On the downside, there would be no minimum cap either.


This whole thing goes to show what a terrible union the NFLPA from is top to bottom though. Other than being a former member, what are Upshaw's qualifications to head it?

Don't get me wrong, a weak union is one of the things that put the NFL as the premier sport, but this union is a laughingstock.

 

[jksmith269]

I'll take that bet. Name your friendly stakes.

OK we are talking about the NFL not college or HS or CFL just the NFL.

If there is no new CBA by the end of the upcomming season I say the NFL won't play during the 07 season with out one. If I'm wrong I'll buy you a case of your favorite beverage with a cost limit of 20bucks. If I'm right then you buy me a case of Coke.

If a new CBA is reached then the deal is null and void. agreeable?

 

[RiggoForever]

I'll take that bet. Name your friendly stakes.

Ok you answered my last question really well...here's one more:

Would the league owners be able to do a lockout before the 2008 season if the current CBA extends through the 07 season? Wouldn't they be held in place for another year?

 

[lspain1]

Would someone explain to me why a lockout is an outcome of the end of the CBA when EVERYBODY is making money?

 

[RiggoForever]

Would someone explain to me why a lockout is an outcome of the end of the CBA when EVERYBODY is making money?

A lockout would be instituted by small-market owners who wouldn't want to pay players under the auspices of no salary cap.

 

[david_jackson]

No CBA No Draft

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yeah, and then those small market owners can band together to lockout the league.

Rich........

No, I don't think so. If it goes to arbitration, they can't do that. All parties agree that the arbitration is the last word under antitrust agreements. I think that it's a done deal, once a ruling comes down, once it goes that far.


I don't know. I'm kinda talking out of the other side of my mouth here because I'm no authority on this. I'm only repeating what I thought I heard somewhere down the line. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable then I can speak to this. Where is the Barrister when you need him?

LOL.......