Importance of a running QB

[dalsyk]

I agree also. Today in the NFL a QB has to be able to get out of the way of all these blitz happy defenders. If he can run for an occaisonal first down, thats just gravy. He must be a first rate passer though. I was very impressed with Vince Young. I saw him run right through 2 arm tackles like they weren't there. Very strong man with a nice touch on his passes. The extra time a running QB gives is invaluable! I don't mean to say run first then pass, but if the lane is there to run, then run.

 

[Jimz31]

If your QB is constantly running for his life then you need to take care of the reason of why is he running for his life. O-Line.

Absolutely correct. O-line is where it all begins and ends.

 

[Tio]

Young was 30-40 against the 2X Champs in the biggest game of his career. If Young couldn't pass, they wouldn't have given him 40 throwing plays.

And he wasn't throwing to Jarrett or SMith or Byrd or Bush. He had thomas and not much else.

Do whatever it takes to get this guy.

 

[lspain1]

Perhaps running is too strong a word. But I'd take a QB who has:

1. Mobility to move around and make a play with his legs when he has to ala Donovan McNabb. Young has this I think,

2. Pocket presence where he has the ability to sense a rush and react to it by getting rid of it or moving. I'm not sure Young has this because his OL is so good.

3. Accuracy and the ability to appropriately select the velocity needed on the pass. I think Young has this.

4. Judgement to make good decisions. I think Young has this.

5. An ability to perform under pressure. Young showed us just a little last night.

For a new QB to the NFL, the ability to quickly read defenses and go through progressions is never proven in college. Good decisions at the NFL level typically only come from experience. Young shows an ability to make good decisions but that ability will need sharpening at the NFL level just as it would for any rookie QB.

Some of you folks say this 'running' ability is flavor of the week and overrated using Michael Vick as the poster child example. You are all wet. I'll state that McNabb is the counterpoint example and I'll take Young any day of the week and I'd take him right now.

 

[Doomsday101]

I am not talking about "running" QB's. I am talking about the need to have a QB that can escape the pressure as opposed to having a statue.

Manning and Palmer have that escapability. We've seen it over and over with them escaping pressure. Bledsoe RARELY escapes any pressure at all.

I never have liked the "running QB's". Young is already better than Vick. Vick's problem was throwing the ball.....which is why I call him a glorified RB.

Young was 30-40 against the 2X Champs in the biggest game of his career. If Young couldn't pass, they wouldn't have given him 40 throwing plays.

Well that is not a change it has always been that way in the NFL. The running QB is also nothing new in the NFL. I think the QB position and what scouts and coaches look for is pretty much the same as they always have. As for Young I did not say he could not pass I'm only saying he still needs to put in work on his passing and I base it on seeing every game the guy has played not just last nights game in which he performed great in. Young very well could be the total package when he enters the NFL but I do think another year in college would be the best thing for him

 

[THUMPER]

And he wasn't throwing to Jarrett or SMith or Byrd or Bush. He had thomas and not much else.

Do whatever it takes to get this guy.

Almost all of Young's passes yesterday were dumpoffs, he didn't throw any deep passes that I can recall and certainly none that were completed. His longest pass play was 26 yards but that was on a dumpoff pass where the guy broke some tackles.

He has a very LONG ways to go before he is NFL ready IMO. At this point he is still a running QB who throws a lot of short passes. Maybe he would fit in a WCO style.

Personally, I don't want him.

 

[Jarv]

Perhaps running is too strong a word. But I'd take a QB who has:

1. Mobility to move around and make a play with his legs when he has to ala Donovan McNabb. Young has this I think,

2. Pocket presence where he has the ability to sense a rush and react to it by getting rid of it or moving. I'm not sure Young has this because his OL is so good.

3. Accuracy and the ability to appropriately select the velocity needed on the pass. I think Young has this.

4. Judgement to make good decisions. I think Young has this.

5. An ability to perform under pressure. Young showed us just a little last night.

For a new QB to the NFL, the ability to quickly read defenses and go through progressions is never proven in college. Good decisions at the NFL level typically only come from experience. Young shows an ability to make good decisions but that ability will need sharpening at the NFL level just as it would for any rookie QB.

Some of you folks say this 'running' ability is flavor of the week and overrated using Michael Vick as the poster child example. You are all wet. I'll state that McNabb is the counterpoint example and I'll take Young any day of the week and I'd take him right now.

Good post lspain1. the NFL is changing. No running QB has won a superbowl..well except for Roger, Joe Namath (option QB from Alabama) and Elway, Steve Young...Oh yeah, Fran Tark went to 4 superbowls. Ben R. may win one this year...hmmm.

See my post on cloning Landry.

Inovation and running QB's will be the future. Who ran the last statue of liberty play ? We shoulda tried that this year, we had the statue !

See the future,,be the future...na na na na...

 

[jterrell]

Your comments got me to thinking about what the percentage is for how often QBs run. How often do the QBs in the playoffs run and how often do the "running" QBs take off as a percentage compared to how often they pass.

PLAYOFF QBS (sorted by QB rating):
Player ------- 2005 --- Career
P.Manning --- 7.28% --- 5.68%
C.Palmer ----- 6.68% -- 5.53%
B.Roethlisbe - 11.57% - 15.45%
M.Hasselbek - 8.02% --- 8.57%
T.Brady ----- 5.09% --- 7.47%
J.Plummer -- 10.09% -- 9.72%
B.Leftwich -- 10.26% -- 8.18%
J.Delhomme - 5.52% -- 7.05%
M.Brunell --- 9.25% -- 11.44%
C.Simms ---- 6.07% -- 6.74%
E.Manning -- 5.20% --- 4.64%

RUNNING QBS (sorted by %):
Player ------- 2005 --- Career
M.Vick ----- 26.36% --- 30.25%
D.Culpepper - 11.11% -- 17.41%
D.McNabb -- 7.04% ---- 14.10%
S.McNair --- 6.72% ---- 15.86%

As you can see, the top playoff QBs don't run much except for Big Ben. McNabb & McNair were both fighting injuries all season and didn't run as much as they normally would.

Most of the true "pocket passers" run the ball 8% of the time or less.

Of the great QBs of the past 30 years only Staubach (13.86%) and Steve Young (17.40%) could really be considered "running QBs" with a percentage higher than 13%. Joe Namath was the lowest of the guys I sampled at 1.89%. Randall Cunningham was the highest at 18.07% but that was to be expected. Tarkenton came in at 10.44% and Elway at 10.07%, both lower than I would have thought. Marino came in at an anticipated 3.60%.

The point is that very few "running" QBs are truly successful in the NFL since the 50s when the role of the QB changed. Only Staubach and Young have won SBs while most SBs were won by the typical "pocket passer" type.

None of the current "running" QBs has won a SB. Both McNabb & McNair have played in one and lost.

Ironically I would call Stubach and Young the best 2 QBs ever.

Its hard to bash Bledsoe then state you don't want a running QB. What we have seen with Bledsoe is that standing tall in the pocket all the time just makes you a target there for defenses.

Teams blitzing guys like Vick or Young have a lot of trouble because those guys can break one tackle attempt and then its off to the races for them or spotting the WR who was left uncovered.

I don't think you can have the complete package without mobility.

I also don't think you can just run around back there thinking that will win games.

Tom Brady is ideal. He may not run it all the time, but he does move all the time.

What I'd love to see analyzed but would only be possible by someone like Stats inc is what percentage of a guy's passes take place in the pocket after a 3,5,7 step drop.

Its easy to criticize the more mobile guys this year with McNabb, Vick and Culpepper all down but those guys have been playoff QBs and near the top of the league in passing in some cases.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

I am not talking about "running" QB's. I am talking about the need to have a QB that can escape the pressure as opposed to having a statue.

Manning and Palmer have that escapability. We've seen it over and over with them escaping pressure. Bledsoe RARELY escapes any pressure at all.

I never have liked the "running QB's". Young is already better than Vick. Vick's problem was throwing the ball.....which is why I call him a glorified RB.

Young was 30-40 against the 2X Champs in the biggest game of his career. If Young couldn't pass, they wouldn't have given him 40 throwing plays.

Manning didnt escape SDs pressure. Thats the type of pressure Bledsoe has faced 98% of the season. You have to protect the QB and have a decent running game. Im not comparing Bledsoe to Manning but Manning in our offense wouldnt look so good.

 

[jterrell]

I do and Young has mentioned several times that he plans on returning to Texas and I think he will hold true to his word.

Wishful thinking but it wont happen.

He IS definitely coming out bro.
If you listened to him it was always there on the edges. He is just as likely to come out as Reggie Bush is.

The high school kid they are recruiting at QB says VY who has been speaking with him told him he is coming out. There have also been reports his parents have been pushing him to come out. After that game there is NO WAY he comes out. That was the best performance I have EVER seen in a game where the teams were both so good. Not like he was running roughshod over scrubs. USC has a bevy of future(and former, lol) NFLers.

 

[Jarv]

Manning didnt escape SDs pressure. Thats the type of pressure Bledsoe has faced 98% of the season. You have to protect the QB and have a decent running game. Im not comparing Bledsoe to Manning but Manning in our offense wouldnt look so good.

And how would Bledsoe look in the Colts offense...repeat.

 

[lspain1]

USC has a bevy of former NFLers.

jterrell, I think you mean "future' here.

I also agree with you. Young has no good reason to stay and Leinart's own example to look at where he should have come out last year.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

And how would Bledsoe look in the Colts offense...repeat.

I like what Bledsoe did this season for the most part. What he was able to do in this offense compared to what he might do behind the colts line with their running game who knows. Hes never had it that good.

I give him credit.

 

[Doomsday101]

jterrell, I think you mean "future' here.

I also agree with you. Young has no good reason to stay and Leinart's own example to look at where he should have come out last year.

A few weeks back they showed the failure rate of QB who left school early and it was very high compared to those who stayed the extra year. If all your looking for is the money then enter the Pros if your looking to have a long successful career in the pros stay in school and get that extra year of work and maturity

 

[THUMPER]

A few weeks back they showed the failure rate of QB who left school early and it was very high compared to those who stayed the extra year. If all your looking for is the money then enter the Pros if your looking to have a long successful career in the pros stay in school and get that extra year of work and maturity

I totally agree, it would benefit Young immensely to stay in school another year. He has a lot of what it takes to be an NFL QB but he also has a long ways to go too.

He doesn't have the velocity on his passes and showed ZERO deep ball last night as his longest completion was about 15 yards. Mostly he just sat back and waited for someone to get open short or he simply ran it. He lacks patience, even though he had a lot of time but he does do a good job of going through his progressions and makes decisions quickly.

His passes tend to float a bit and would get picked off in the NFL. He needs another year in college to work on his mechanics, deep pass, and patience. If he improves in those areas he could be a great one when he comes into the NFL.

 

[Doomsday101]

I totally agree, it would benefit Young immensely to stay in school another year. He has a lot of what it takes to be an NFL QB but he also has a long ways to go too.

He doesn't have the velocity on his passes and showed ZERO deep ball last night as his longest completion was about 15 yards. Mostly he just sat back and waited for someone to get open short or he simply ran it. He lacks patience, even though he had a lot of time but he does do a good job of going through his progressions and makes decisions quickly.

His passes tend to float a bit and would get picked off in the NFL. He needs another year in college to work on his mechanics, deep pass, and patience. If he improves in those areas he could be a great one when he comes into the NFL.

I agree but Young does throw a good long ball but with USC sitting in 2 deep zone they took away the outside speed of the Texas WR. I do see him floating balls that could easily be picked. I think with another year of developement Young can improve

 

[Jarv]

A few weeks back they showed the failure rate of QB who left school early and it was very high compared to those who stayed the extra year. If all your looking for is the money then enter the Pros if your looking to have a long successful career in the pros stay in school and get that extra year of work and maturity

Never heard of that but it makes sense to me.

Did they show the same stat for RB's and WR's ?

 

[Doomsday101]

Never heard of that but it makes sense to me.

Did they show the same stat for RB's and WR's ?

Yes they did but RB and WR tend to fair better even as underclassmen coming to the NFL. Myself I think the maturity plays a big part at the QB position and that comes with age and experiance which is why I think the extra year makes a differance for QB's coming to the NFL.

 

[kartr]

Vince is a great running QB in college ... heck, he diced up USC's LB corp. Then again, USC was starting an 18 year old freshman at MLB.

Big difference in the NFL ... where LB's are faster than CB's. Vince won't be able to out run anyone.

Let's see ... of the 12 playoff teams:

NFC:
Seatle - Hasslebeck: adequate elusiveness, but not a running QB
Chicago - Orton/Grossman: neither are running QB's, heck, neither are great passers either.
NYG - Eli: some elusiveness, not a running QB
Carolina - Delhome: good elusiveness and can scramble, but wins with his arm. Not a running QB.
Tampa Bay - Sims: slower than his dad.
Washington - Brunnell: can scramble, and hurt the Cowboys with his running. But still, NOT a running QB.

AFC:
Indy- Manning: nuff said
Denver - Plummer: the best scrambler among all, but not a running QB.
Cincy - Palmer: Troy Aikman clone.
NE - Tom Brady: statue.
Jacksonville - Gerrard: good running QB. Big and strong. Leftwich: big arm, no legs.
Pittsburgh - Rosewhatever: not a running QB.

So there you have it ... Gerrard is the ONLY running QB among that group, and he's Leftwich's backup.

The great Michael Vick couldn't save his team with his legs. It's done for. The running QB is a myth.

You ever heard of Montana, Steve Young, Jim Plunkett, Randall Cunningham, Fran Tarkington. Bledsoe's never won anything either, neither did Dan Fouts. Don't tell me that Montana wasn't a runner. When he won his first superbowl, both he and Ken Anderson of Cincinatti led the league in rushing. Plummer, not a running qb, you must be using some quirky definition of running qb. Virtually all NFL qb's can throw the ball including Michael Vick, but the ones who can regularly make plays with their legs either running for first downs or touchdowns or throw on the run are running qbs.

 

[burmafrd]

If he gets the coaching he needs yes to staying. If not come out and get it in the pros- BUT he has to go somewhere where they will be willing to wait and be patient.
That is not something you will usually find in the places that draft high.
Roger, Young, Elway. the ONLY running QB's to win the SB. 5 out of 39. And NONE in the last 11 years. So a running QB is maybe the BEST way to ENSURE THAT YOU DO NOT WIN A SB.