Importance of a running QB

[Doomsday101]

You ever heard of Montana, Steve Young, Jim Plunkett, Randall Cunningham, Fran Tarkington. Bledsoe's never won anything either, neither did Dan Fouts. Don't tell me that Montana wasn't a runner. When he won his first superbowl, both he and Ken Anderson of Cincinatti led the league in rushing. Plummer, not a running qb, you must be using some quirky definition of running qb. Virtually all NFL qb's can throw the ball including Michael Vick, but the ones who can regularly make plays with their legs either running for first downs or touchdowns or throw on the run are running qbs.

Those QB worked just as well out of a pocket, it is great to be able to move around but when your WR are running routs they tend to expect the ball on time as they make their breaks. Jerry Rice even talked about when Joe left it was hard for him the 1st 2 years young took over because with Joe he knew the ball would be there when he came out of his break but with Young he was taking off way too soon. Once Young started showing the ability to work from the Pocket he was then able to lead the 9ers to a championship.

 

[aznhalf]

You don't need mobility to avoid the rush.

Give me a quarterback with pocket presence and a quick release over a Micheal Vick any day.

Tom Brady, Payton Manning, Carson Palmer, etc. are not mobile contrary to what some have said. But they do an excellent job anticipating the rush and stepping up. That along with a quick release make them all ideal quarterbacks.

Mobile quarterbacks are just not dependable enough, they get hurt and depend on their legs too often. A good running game with play action hurts the defence more than having to defend against a QB scrambling.

The future of the NFL is in pocket passers.

 

[Jimz31]

Almost all of Young's passes yesterday were dumpoffs, he didn't throw any deep passes that I can recall and certainly none that were completed. His longest pass play was 26 yards but that was on a dumpoff pass where the guy broke some tackles.

He has a very LONG ways to go before he is NFL ready IMO. At this point he is still a running QB who throws a lot of short passes. Maybe he would fit in a WCO style.

Personally, I don't want him.

Are you calling him a "dumpoff" passer? If so, fine. But I believe that his yards per pass is the highest in college. What does that make every other QB, if HE is a "dumpoff passer".

 

[jterrell]

jterrell, I think you mean "future' here.

I also agree with you. Young has no good reason to stay and Leinart's own example to look at where he should have come out last year.

lol. u r right. Tho I guess it was correct both ways tho it only made sense in one.

thanks for the correction.

i type faster than i think as many will attest to.

 

[alancdc]

Is there a running quarterback that is in the playoffs this year?

 

[jterrell]

And how would Bledsoe look in the Colts offense...repeat.

I'd guess he would be a Pro Bowler though not the supreme player Manning is.

 

[Kangaroo]

I am tired of this young passes are better than vicks no they are not. I never saw him make one pass completed in tight coverage it was always a guy with no one even close to his.

Young

1. Has a long slow delivery
2. He has a low sidearm trajectory
3. He shot puts the ball out there which will not get it done at the next level
4. Footwork from under center how is it he was all shotgun
5. Never saw 1 completion from him in tight coverage everything was wide open crossing route or te uncovered by the zone defense


Man I am tired of all the Vince cheese he is a great college QB no doubt about it but no way in hell is he worth drafting in the top 10 as a QB he does not look good throwing the football. Please put down the hype from a medicore passer

If you want to see a real QB to draft watch Brady Quinn next year that is the guy I want after another year with Weiss

 

[jterrell]

Is there a running quarterback that is in the playoffs this year?

Only 5 of the top 10 passing QBs by yardage this year are in the playoffs. So passing yardage is not a good indicator of success.


What is a good indicator is overall efficiency in getting first downs and maintaining a good TD to INT ratio. A guy who can get you 3 yards on 3rd and 2 has a big advantage there. McNabb used that extensively in Philly's 4 year run of awesome success.

Tom Brady is kind a benchmark as the pocket guys claim him as do the mobile QB guys. The reason being he doesn't take off and scramble much at all but he does move on almost every snap. He has a ton of half rolls and bootlegs.

All of that goes to say in order to answer your initial question you have to agree on who is or isn't a running QB and few seem to agree.

All that said there is no doubt that this season the more mobile guys had some tough breaks with injuries and the team around them. Vick looked bad but I also saw him take a moderately talented ATL team up to GB and kick the snot outta Favre and GB in the playoffs on the road. Culpepper has been to the NFCC, McNabb a SB, Brees made it a ways last year.

 

[jterrell]

I am tired of this young passes are better than vicks no they are not. I never saw him make one pass completed in tight coverage it was always a guy with no one even close to his.

Young

1. Has a long slow delivery
2. He has a low sidearm trajectory
3. He shot puts the ball out there which will not get it done at the next level
4. Footwork from under center how is it he was all shotgun
5. Never saw 1 completion from him in tight coverage everything was wide open crossing route or te uncovered by the zone defense


Man I am tired of all the Vince cheese he is a great college QB no doubt about it but no way in hell is he worth drafting in the top 10 as a QB he does not look good throwing the football. Please put down the hype from a medicore passer

If you want to see a real QB to draft watch Brady Quinn next year that is the guy I want after another year with Weiss

Thats simply untrue.
He did have some guys drop passes last night that hit them in the hands in tight coverage. ALL of his WRs were freshmen and Sophs. He had 1 junior of his surrounding skill guys and that was Selvin Young who played rather sparingly.

He beat OSU on a beautiful fade pass to the End Zone and torched my Tech team with some more brilliant throws.

Against SC they kept dropping so deep into cover 2's that they gave him underneath stuff all night and he completed a number of passes to his TE in tigh coverage because the TE has the best hands of all those guys.

You really should stock up on wine and crackers because after his play last night its gonna be a long, long off-season full of VY cheese.

Quinn is throwing to 2 excellent WRs and a good TE.
Both if his WRs would be first day picks if they came out this year.

All that and they lost 3 games. VY lost ZERO.

 

[burmafrd]

Vince Young also had a much better overall team with a great D. And really outside of OSU and USC who did they play that was that good?

 

[Doomsday101]

Vince Young also had a much better overall team with a great D. And really outside of OSU and USC who did they play that was that good?

You could say the same about USC who did they play outside of ND? The Big 12 held their own during the bowl games this year and Texas not only beat those other Big 12 teams Texas killed them.

 

[Kangaroo]

Thats simply untrue.
He did have some guys drop passes last night that hit them in the hands in tight coverage. ALL of his WRs were freshmen and Sophs. He had 1 junior of his surrounding skill guys and that was Selvin Young who played rather sparingly.

He beat OSU on a beautiful fade pass to the End Zone and torched my Tech team with some more brilliant throws.

Against SC they kept dropping so deep into cover 2's that they gave him underneath stuff all night and he completed a number of passes to his TE in tight coverage because the TE has the best hands of all those guys.

You really should stock up on wine and crackers because after his play last night its gonna be a long, long off-season full of VY cheese.

Quinn is throwing to 2 excellent WRs and a good TE.
Both if his WRs would be first day picks if they came out this year.

All that and they lost 3 games. VY lost ZERO.

There we go you refuted little of what I stated his throwing motion etc etc. The tight coverage I did not see any on the te last night I saw him wide open no one around him most of the nite until after the catch; I was not impressed with his throwing in the OSU game either. Guess what Texas had a better overall team than ND and I would have picked Texas over them. I am not saying Vince Young is not a great college QB. Being a great college QB does not mean his games translates to the Pro's. Vince's current game does not translate well to the Pro's Quinn's does.

Vince is being over hyped and his throwing motion is garbage and I will not change my mind until he stops doing that shot put aiming throwing motion thing he does he is not a 1st round QB talent with that type of throwing motion period.

Now he deserves the praise for the way he played all year and the way he played last night that does not make him a great QB prospect in the NFL.

 

[burmafrd]

I would argue that there was only one really good team in the BIG 12 this year. Just like there was only one real good team in the PAC 10 this year. USC had a weak D and this was known by EVERYONE. But up till this game their O had bailed them out. Even in this game the O scored 38 pts- enough to win except against Texas. Texas matched them score for score the whole game and scored last. And there you have it.
Texas was the BETTER OVERALL TEAM. And they won as they should have. I did not think they would win because of Mack Brown- well known for doing less with more. But in this game he did not make any critical mistakes- and his team played great. they contained Bush very well- and Leinart did not eat them up. White did more damage then either of them- but he was clearly not the top priority.

 

[sacase]

There we go you refuted little of what I stated his throwing motion etc etc. The tight coverage I did not see any on the te last night I saw him wide open no one around him most of the nite until after the catch; I was not impressed with his throwing in the OSU game either. Guess what Texas had a better overall team than ND and I would have picked Texas over them. I am not saying Vince Young is not a great college QB. Being a great college QB does not mean his games translates to the Pro's. Vince's current game does not translate well to the Pro's Quinn's does.

Vince is being over hyped and his throwing motion is garbage and I will not change my mind until he stops doing that shot put aiming throwing motion thing he does he is not a 1st round QB talent with that type of throwing motion period.

Now he deserves the praise for the way he played all year and the way he played last night that does not make him a great QB prospect in the NFL.

Ironic that most Scouts and comentators would disagree with you. VY is a TOP 5 pick, if not the number one overall pick. Perhaps you need to watch more than one game. Kind of hard as well as stupid to throw the ball deep in a 2 deep zone, plus you don't get alot of tight coverages in the 2 deep zone. He shredded them, period.

 

[kartr]

Those QB worked just as well out of a pocket, it is great to be able to move around but when your WR are running routs they tend to expect the ball on time as they make their breaks. Jerry Rice even talked about when Joe left it was hard for him the 1st 2 years young took over because with Joe he knew the ball would be there when he came out of his break but with Young he was taking off way too soon. Once Young started showing the ability to work from the Pocket he was then able to lead the 9ers to a championship.

I agree whole-heartedly, but some here think that if a qb can run then he can't learn to the pass from the pocket and that's generalizing. Qb's need experience to learn to pass from the pocket and that takes time whether you can run or not. Many want to generalize that a runner can't learn as well as a non-runner and there's simply no basis for that position. Many here also suggested that Carter was simply a runner and that passing for over 3300 yards with little running game was just a fluke or give credit to the defense for those numbers and that's absurd.

 

[kartr]

You don't need mobility to avoid the rush.

Give me a quarterback with pocket presence and a quick release over a Micheal Vick any day.

Tom Brady, Payton Manning, Carson Palmer, etc. are not mobile contrary to what some have said. But they do an excellent job anticipating the rush and stepping up. That along with a quick release make them all ideal quarterbacks.

Mobile quarterbacks are just not dependable enough, they get hurt and depend on their legs too often. A good running game with play action hurts the defence more than having to defend against a QB scrambling.

The future of the NFL is in pocket passers.

You're absolutely wrong, the future is passers with mobility. The advent of the speed rusher era, see(Kearse,Shawn Merriman and DeMarcus Ware will take care of that. It's a part of the evolution of the game. All positions will become increasingly more athletic according to the dictates of the game. Kyle Boller,Vince Young, Jay Cutler will be the proto-types instead of the Leinhart types. Is Donovan McNabb a runner, yes? He's led his team to the playoffs 4 of the last five years with a third of the talent that Manning has on his team.

 

[kartr]

Is there a running quarterback that is in the playoffs this year?

Are there pocket passers who are sitting at home this year? Most qb's are pocket passers and the runners very few, so the injury bug bit most of them. That's hardly a mandate for the pocket passers, most of whom stink and only a few of them can really play. Neither Kerry Collins or Bledsoe or Pennington or Gus Ferrotte or Joey Harrington or Drew Brees got their teams to the playoffs this year.

 

[kartr]

And how would Bledsoe look in the Colts offense...repeat.

He would still hold the ball too long and be reluctant to check down to his alternate receivers just like does here and get sacked and fumble.

 

[Doomsday101]

I agree whole-heartedly, but some here think that if a qb can run then he can't learn to the pass from the pocket and that's generalizing. Qb's need experience to learn to pass from the pocket and that takes time whether you can run or not. Many want to generalize that a runner can't learn as well as a non-runner and there's simply no basis for that position. Many here also suggested that Carter was simply a runner and that passing for over 3300 yards with little running game was just a fluke or give credit to the defense for those numbers and that's absurd.

I agree it takes some time. I would disagree with your next thread about the QB's of the future. There is nothing in the NFL right now that was not there before, it has seen it's share of running QB, Mobile QB's and pocket passers so when I hear the future QB's will be this or that I can't help but laugh because all types of QB's have played this game over the long history of the NFL. As for Carter I refuse to talk about that issue it is dead and over and not worth the time to talk about him.

 

[Doomsday101]

Are there pocket passers who are sitting at home this year? Most qb's are pocket passers and the runners very few, so the injury bug bit most of them. That's hardly a mandate for the pocket passers, most of whom stink and only a few of them can really play. Neither Kerry Collins or Bledsoe or Pennington or Gus Ferrotte or Joey Harrington or Drew Brees got their teams to the playoffs this year.

Fair enough now what is wrong with a pocket passer? They have proven themselves just as well and the last great one we had helped this team with 3 SB titles.