Improving at LG

[condoin125]

Define contact. If a defender pushes a blocker into the back is that contact? Is a fingertip contact?

You completely missed the point about not having common opponents and the need to normalize. Raw data is only worthwhile if you are comparing apples to apples. This is the crux of what I am talking about when you crow about "raw data." It illustrates quite clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

While you do not understand what DVOA is doing that does not mean that PFF's raw data is better. It just means you have noidea what you are talking about. At the end of the day DVOA is comparing apples to apples and PFF is not.

Your point about 2016 versus 2017 does nothing to change any of that. Further there were other issues on the OL in 2017 that were not present in 2016 notably Tyron and Zeke missing so much time. Our best OL being hurt most of the year and the learning curve LC dealt with mattered. Early in the year TFred was not very good trying to help Green as well. I know you want that to not matter but it does so deal with it.

I watched the games and did not see what you claim about yards before contact. You of course have no basis for said claims. Further, while Zeke played 10 games he also missed 6. A 40% decrease in availability is significant as is such a long layoff once he came back.

And I criticize PFF's stats because they have some serious issues that I have outlined. Their rating system in particular is a joke as is there assignation for coverage regardless of your using them. Your using their "raw stats" is not attacking their method though. That is all on you.

-Contact is contact, your question is pointless. It doesn't say contact from an opponent, it says contact so it should be taken at its definition....not sure why you feel the need to make more out of that. Even if there were other stipulations to it, does that really matter? It's the same for every team every season in their data collection.

-I understand completely how DVOA works and how they use a formula to normalize it due to comparing teams vs other teams; except again, that's not what we're doing here....I'm only discussing Dallas vs Dallas....are you complaining about their data because we played different teams in 2016/2017 and even the same teams had some different players? So you make this some complaint when it comes to addressing all stats? Hell, why complain about the number of yards Dez has had the last couple of years vs 2012 when it's not apples to apples? He's not facing the same cornerbacks or safeties so it's really not a fair comparison.

-All of that arguing you did vs the data that suggested that our line took a step back and then you start listing excuses about why the line actually did take a step back with the injuries and such; but NONE of that decline in play certainly had anything to do with the two new guys on the line....makes complete sense

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

-Contact is contact, your question is pointless. It doesn't say contact from an opponent, it says contact so it should be taken at its definition....not sure why you feel the need to make more out of that. Even if there were other stipulations to it, does that really matter? It's the same for every team every season in their data collection.

-I understand completely how DVOA works and how they use a formula to normalize it due to comparing teams vs other teams; except again, that's not what we're doing here....I'm only discussing Dallas vs Dallas....are you complaining about their data because we played different teams in 2016/2017 and even the same teams had some different players? So you make this some complaint when it comes to addressing all stats? Hell, why complain about the number of yards Dez has had the last couple of years vs 2012 when it's not apples to apples? He's not facing the same cornerbacks or safeties so it's really not a fair comparison.

-All of that arguing you did vs the data that suggested that our line took a step back and then you start listing excuses about why the line actually did take a step back with the injuries and such; but NONE of that decline in play certainly had anything to do with the two new guys on the line....makes complete sense

So you didn't answer the question. Likely because you have no idea. That is all I needed to know.

I don't buy that you do. I do buy that you have no idea of the significance. Even in a Dallas vs Dallas situation it's not apples to apples. Your initial statement was to ignore FO because PFF's raw stats were superior. That has been my point and you were wrong. Deal with it.

I have no issue maintaining rigor regarding statistics. I've never made a complaint about DEz in that context. You're doing an excellent job of missing the point. Nice flail though.

You seem to have lost all sense of what the argument is as you try to win any point you can. It's a common denominator in someone become desperate in their positions.

Your entire spiel here is that we need to draft a LG because Cooper was the weak link and the cause of the regression. All of the comments about injuries, LC, crappy play from backups, the significance of Zeke missing time speaks to that.

Frankly this is boring now. You cannot keep up with your own arguments. Perhaps if you review the thread and catch up on the argument I will respond again but I have better things to do than try and help you keep up.

 

[SportsGuru80]

Draft a young LG and pray it's over with....

 

[cowboyec]

a 3rd or 4th Rd OG I like...Sean Welsh,Iowa.

 

[buybuydandavis]

[QUOTE="condoin125, post: 7907607, member: 39921"I agree we can't put all of our resources into the line but some things need to be fixed and if drafting a LG is the only way to go with that then so be it.[/QUOTE]
I see them rotating the LG position at around 2mil with vets, until they hit on a mid to late round development project.

I don't see them putting a 1st or 2nd for LG. You can get decent vets cheap, and simply the opportunity to play on the oline and interview to the league for a contract for the following year will keep the price down. LG is a position that you don't have to spend a lot on, whether in cash or picks, and I don't expect us to.

 

[bodi]

Frank Ragnow Center Arkansas

My Frank Ragnow draft analysis is that he is an athletic, big-bodied, grinder. That is to say, this Arkansas center is 6’5″ and can transition off blocks with ease. On top of that, Ragnow looks to bury people on running plays. Combine that with his ability to keep his ground in pass protection and you get a well-rounded prospect. Of course, Ragnow could improve on his extension, but, all in all, he is a dependable day-two prospect.

Strengths:

To start, Frank Ragnow has elite size at 6’5″, 319 lbs. Not to mention, he shows good athleticism in space and can transition smoothly off blocks to the linebackers. That ability to transition off blocks also translates to seamless pass protection exchanges from him and the offensive guard. Ragnow sinks his weight, identifies the pressure, and holds his ground in pass protection. And, as a final note, he is a good effort player and shows a tenacity in finishing blocks. To be honest, Frank Ragnow could hear his name called early on day-two if the draft board falls in his favor.

GET bu center as well as OG

https://www.nflsnext.com/frank-ragnow-center-arkansas/

 

[xwalker]

I love how you start out with "wrong" and then go on to say that Collins shut down Von Miller for three quarters. In that game Collins game up 11 total pressures to Von Miller (and would have had more if not being bailed out by pentalty calls). A pressure is defined by a hurry, a QB knockdown or a sack....so you think he gave up all 11 of those pressures in the fourth quarter? Oh, no you think because he gave up no sacks in the first three quarters (I'm assuming that's the case and taking your word for it) then that means he played well; I mean that's literally the weakest way of judging how an Olineman performs. Allowing a guy to consistently get pressure on the QB during a game, even if you don't allow sacks, is not good play from the tackle position. It hurries a QB through his reads and makes him take hits that will rattle/hurt him. It's stunning to me that you would use Collins' worst game of the year as a means to defend him; Collins' was so bad that game it's almost making me feel bad for using that game as a means to attack Dak's 2017 play.

And I can only LOL at you saying that Tyron and Martin missing time were the main reasons for the line's step back. Sure Tyron missing time hurt us, but he only missed three games...he was there the majority of the time. Martin barely missed any time and played in all 16 games. But there's absolutely no way that the two new guys had anything at all to do with huge step back our line took (a line that was the best from 2014-2016).....that would be crazy to think.

Wrong. Rookie.