Int I.Q.

[Idgit]

Just calling it as I see them. Romo's made a truckload of mistakes this year, and you take the time to break down the one that wasn't an obvious error on his part....laughable.

No matter how you parse it, he's made multiple mistakes which cost the Cowboys 2 games, and just reinforced the bad things we've seen from him throughout his career.

How many mistakes does it take? All these years aren't enough? We've seen it his whole career, save one season. The only thing short-sighted are those who blindly cast a shield around Tony Romo, as though people aren't really seeing all his mistakes in the right light.

"You want to play blind man, go walk with the shepherd. Me, my eyes are wide ####### open."

Out of curiosity, who do your wide open eyes tell you we should be playing instead of Romo? Who's game is closer to being great that you're better off developing them than you are working on Romo's specific game-situation mistakes?

 

[DallasEast]

To the OP, I more or less agree with the assessment of the play if you isolate it and analyze it, this pick was a tight ball and a great play by the CB. My problem is with the fact that we didn't need to be risking the ball on a throw like that at that juncture in the game. *Especially* after the awful pick-six into double coverage that had just preceded it. Of all times, we needed to protect the ball on that drive, establish some momentum, and take the high-percentage throws and play field position and the clock. Instead, we forced a throw into tight coverage to a new WR and threw a bucket of accelerant onto an explosive offense. It was about the one thing we could not do at that point, and we did it. Both our coach and our QB are responsible for it; especially the QB.

My apologies for the delay. I was still inside the thread and saw your reply, but thought best to cobble up some images quickly to better illustrate my answers.

The pass was thrown into tight coverage created by the wide receiver. Basically, the only time a quarterback should consider writing off the quick slant is when: a) the cornerback immediately jams the receiver as he releases from the line of scrimmage; or b) when the quarterback reads the cornerback looking into the offensive backfield.

Good examples of the latter can be provided by interception opportunistic cornerbacks such as Assante Samuel and Darrelle Revis. The key to a quarterback's read of the cornerback's read of the offensive play would be his positioning.

In example one below, the cornerback is positioning himself face up and parallel to the line of scrimmage. A quarterback would read this as the DB not peaking into the backfield for the quick pass.

http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/449493bf.jpg
http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/d2f68413.jpg
Example 1

In example two, the cornerback has positioned himself to face slightly diagonal (sp?) in relation to the receiver and the line of scrimmage. The key for the quarterback would be the DB's stance.

The DB can hold this stance and maintain power in his backpedal once the receiver releases on the snap and make a step towards the quarterback immediately if the ball is thrown in his direction. Samuel exaggerates his feet positioning in this fashion a lot in man-to-man schemes.

http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/449493bf.jpg
Example 2

As shown in the video before the snap, Houston is clearly positioning himself primarily for receiver coverage and not for the interception.



Haha. I drew those feet so close together that they look like they have been hogtied. :laugh1:

 

[DallasEast]

Just calling it as I see them. Romo's made a truckload of mistakes this year, and you take the time to break down the one that wasn't an obvious error on his part....laughable.

No matter how you parse it, he's made multiple mistakes which cost the Cowboys 2 games, and just reinforced the bad things we've seen from him throughout his career.

How many mistakes does it take? All these years aren't enough? We've seen it his whole career, save one season. The only thing short-sighted are those who blindly cast a shield around Tony Romo, as though people aren't really seeing all his mistakes in the right light.

"You want to play blind man, go walk with the shepherd. Me, my eyes are wide ####### open."

sigh.

 

[Idgit]

My apologies for the delay. I was still inside the thread and saw your reply, but thought best to cobble up some images quickly to better illustrate my answers.

The pass was thrown into tight coverage created by the wide receiver. Basically, the only time a quarterback should consider writing off the quick slant is when: a) the cornerback immediately jams the receiver as he releases from the line of scrimmage; or b) when the quarterback reads the cornerback looking into the offensive backfield.

Good examples of the latter can be provided by interception opportunistic cornerbacks such as Assante Samuel and Darrelle Revis. The key to a quarterback's read of the cornerback's read of the offensive play would be his positioning.

In example one below, the cornerback is positioning himself face up and parallel to the line of scrimmage. A quarterback would read this as the DB not peaking into the backfield for the quick pass.

http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/449493bf.jpg
http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/d2f68413.jpg
Example 1

In example two, the cornerback has positioned himself to face slightly diagonal (sp?) in relation to the receiver and the line of scrimmage. The key for the quarterback would be the DB's stance.

The DB can hold this stance and maintain power in his backpedal once the receiver releases on the snap and make a step towards the quarterback immediately if the ball is thrown in his direction. Samuel exaggerates his feet positioning in this fashion a lot in man-to-man schemes.

http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/449493bf.jpg
Example 2

As shown in the video before the snap, Houston is clearly positioning himself primarily for receiver coverage and not for the interception.



Haha. I drew those feet so close together that they look like they have been hogtied. :laugh1:

Great stuff. I'm with you on Tony's read prior to the snap. There's still a point (at 1:51 in your own video) where the balls in Tony's hand and it's pretty obvious the CB is in position to make a play. He's not beat.

So, I guess this is the part of your argument I have the most trouble with:

The pass was thrown into tight coverage created by the wide receiver. Basically, the only time a quarterback should consider writing off the quick slant is when: a) the cornerback immediately jams the receiver as he releases from the line of scrimmage; or b) when the quarterback reads the cornerback looking into the offensive backfield.

This play's an example where neither of those things happened, yet the CB was still in position to make the play while the QB had the ball in his hand. It would have to be a split-second decision, sure, but playing with the lead, having just surrendered a pick-six, why throw that ball into good coverage?

 

[DallasEast]

So, I guess this is the part of your argument I have the most trouble with:

This play's an example where neither of those things happened, yet the CB was still in position to make the play while the QB had the ball in his hand. It would have to be a split-second decision, sure, but playing with the lead, having just surrendered a pick-six, why throw that ball into good coverage?

I think the thing to consider is that all quarterbacks must make split-second decisions whenever they release the ball. That decision making is partially based on the belief that the receiver will run a proper pattern and (if necessary) fight for the football when the ball is in the air.

In my opinion, as has been stated by others earlier, Robinson make his deep cut move to the outside to gain an advantage over Houston. He actually succeeded, but it appears as if that's all he thought was necessary to maintain that advantage. Houston was out of position and he made a great play by getting himself back into position. He deserves props for doing so and Robinson will probably get a lot of instruction from Jimmy Robinson because of it as well.

 

[Galian Beast]

^ This is why I created the thread. It is the same old story for some fans: "Once the ball leaves the quarterback's hands, it is always (literally) the quarterback's fault if the defense makes the reception."

I was being sarcastic.

 

[DallasEast]

I was being sarcastic.

Well, thank goodness! My full apologies for reading your reply incorrectly.

 

[bbgun]

So Tony was merely terrible instead of horrible. Now I feel better.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

So Tony was merely terrible instead of horrible. Now I feel better.

Does the sun ever come out for you? Just asking....

Seriously, if mistakes are being made by the WRs , then why is Jimmuh Robinson not catching any heat?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Does the sun ever come out for you? Just asking....

Seriously, if mistakes are being made by the WRs , then why is Jimmuh Robinson not catching any heat?

Because it's easier to go after Romo and Garrett. It's the way of things....

 

[bbgun]

Does the sun ever come out for you? Just asking....

Seriously, if mistakes are being made by the WRs , then why is Jimmuh Robinson not catching any heat?

Romo threw three picks; no one said all three were exclusively his fault. We know this because Robinson promptly took the blame for the second one after the game, so none of this is newsworthy.

 

[DallasEast]

So Tony was merely terrible instead of horrible. Now I feel better.

:laugh1:

Do you believe I am trying to make anyone "feel better"? Nothing could be further from the truth. The level of individual personal frustration is that person's burden, for which I could not care more deeply.

The days of DallasEast attempting to make other Cowboy fans on CowboysZone "feel better" have (for the most part) since long vanished. Too many kicks in the head from perpetual misery sufferers will eventually do that. I'll just stick with the "That's the spirit!" comments whenever fans feel like... well... supporting the team just for the heck of it.

As far as Romo's latest interceptions are concerned, I have commented about all three exclusively within this thread. Enough (should be) said.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

:laugh1:

Do you believe I am trying to make anyone "feel better"? Nothing could be further from the truth. The level of individual personal frustration is that person's burden, for which I could not care more deeply.

The days of DallasEast attempting to make other Cowboy fans on CowboysZone "feel better" have (for the most part) since long vanished. Too many kicks in the head from perpetual misery sufferers will eventually do that. I'll just stick with the "That's the spirit!" comments whenever fans feel like... well... supporting the team just for the heck of it.

As far as Romo's latest interceptions are concerned, I have commented about all three exclusively within this thread. Enough (should be) said.

I'll have to say this for you, DE: You've always kept a level head when it comes to the Cowboys, even during the legendary flame wars back in the DMN Cowboys Forum days. Keep it up!

 

[DallasEast]

Romo threw three picks; no one said all three were exclusively his fault. We know this because Robinson promptly took the blame for the second one after the game, so none of this is newsworthy.

The thread was directed at those who do not acknowledge just that. This is a forum. Threads are not subjugated to many sub-forums that do not exist according to content. We all get to read what's posted, unless you got someone on ignore. I always kinda wish I had that option.

Well, that's a lie.

 

[DallasEast]

I'll have to say this for you, DE: You've always kept a level head when it comes to the Cowboys, even during the legendary flame wars back in the DMN Cowboys Forum days. Keep it up!

Well, I try. You guys keep me in line. That means you too, bbgunner!!! :

 

[djmajestik]

Romo takes a three-step drop only. Short drops are usually indicative of short passes.

Consider down and distance. Consider how long you want to hold the ball in that situation against the defensive pass rush. Consider that he is staring Robinson down from practically jump (even though he does give a split second glance at his safety blanket, Witten, to see if the inside/top coverage has been drawn off with him). And consider that option passes sometimes involve playaction to get the safety to bite. Where's the shoulder pump? Why isn't he looking off the DB covering Robinson?

Alright. I'm calling it a night (finally).

Your smart! :starspin LOVE breakdowns like this! Would love to see more! Thanks for posting this!!

 

[djmajestik]

Occum's Razor applies. There is no reason to sell the out except to make the DB bite outside so he'd have an extra step of room to make the catch for the first down. Everything about the play says slant, minus his one mistake.

He ran the route wrong because he might have thought that the DB was making a move to the inside to take away the slant. If you watch the DB's first step, he does play with inside leverage, and takes a step that direction. We'd been running that pattern during the day so Robinson probably pulled a fake to get the separation because he might not have trusted his ability to beat the DB and make the catch.

In any case, it looks like from the shots from the defensive side of the ball that Houston expected the slant, and Robinson tried to sell the outside before running it. Stupid mistake.

This offseason, and last, there was a thread or three about us not throwing the slant enough. Folks said it's almost impossible to defend and propped it up as the greatest route we weren't smart enough to exploit since it's predicated on speed and getting across the face of the DB. I've always been leery of the route simply because you're throwing inside and the potential for a tipped ball back into the middle of the field is pretty high. This is one of the other downsides to the route. If the WR fails to get across the DB, or the DB takes hard inside leverage, you end up losing possession.

Agreed, but generally with slants, isn't there a high probability of an incompletion vs. a turnover? I mean, how many times do you see a DB one hand intercept a slant? Just think Robinson could have done more to prevent the INT but sometimes, things just happen.

 

[Idgit]

I think the thing to consider is that all quarterbacks must make split-second decisions whenever they release the ball. That decision making is partially based on the belief that the receiver will run a proper pattern and (if necessary) fight for the football when the ball is in the air.

In my opinion, as has been stated by others earlier, Robinson make his deep cut move to the outside to gain an advantage over Houston. He actually succeeded, but it appears as if that's all he thought was necessary to maintain that advantage. Houston was out of position and he made a great play by getting himself back into position. He deserves props for doing so and Robinson will probably get a lot of instruction from Jimmy Robinson because of it as well.

I don't disagree with any of this. Other than to say, the right split-second decision in this case was to throw the ball away given where the CB was prior to Tony releasing the ball. I understand, though, how hard that would be to do given the time available. And I get that it's an ok bet to take under normal circumstances. If this were in the first half, for example, before we'd built up the lead, I don't think I'd have had any problem with it at all.

In any event, this was clearly the best decision of Tony's bad decisions on Sunday. The first pick was a disastrous decision. The last one was a gamble, even given how much room he had on that side of the field. I can forgive him gambling that he had the time to step into that throw, or that he had the arm strength to get it out far enough if he couldn't. He took another gamble, though, and the team paid for it.

 

[DallasEast]

I don't disagree with any of this. Other than to say, the right split-second decision in this case was to throw the ball away given where the CB was prior to Tony releasing the ball. I understand, though, how hard that would be to do given the time available. And I get that it's an ok bet to take under normal circumstances. If this were in the first half, for example, before we'd built up the lead, I don't think I'd have had any problem with it at all.

In any event, this was clearly the best decision of Tony's bad decisions on Sunday. The first pick was a disastrous decision. The last one was a gamble, even given how much room he had on that side of the field. I can forgive him gambling that he had the time to step into that throw, or that he had the arm strength to get it out far enough if he couldn't. He took another gamble, though, and the team paid for it.

I don't believe Romo should get any leeway for the third interception. He read the defense perfectly, but he was hurried. He was already injured. He wasn't going to step up fully into the throw anyway.

His decision?

He chunked it in Witten's general direction as hard as he could and hoped for the best. This was after Witten ran a intermediate-to-deep route. There was time for him to make a better decision.

On the other hand, quick slants are almost instantaneous decisions from snap to throw. If you're going to the hot route, you read the cornerback covering him. If he does not appear to be baiting the throw, you yell snap, drop one, two, three steps and release.

In this case, there was an extra split second because of Robinson's hard cut towards the sideline. But should the quarterback expect the wide receiver to shield the pass from the DB on a quick slant? I would say that all (literally) quarterbacks would say yes.

There is a trust factor between quarterback and receiver. The quarterback expects the receiver to be at the proper spot to receive the ball, which usually has already left his hands. And the receiver expects to turn his head, raise his hands and expect the ball to hit him in stride.

Hopefully, this bye week will instill more of that trust between Romo and Robinson. The combo could become lethal IF Robinson can be worked into the slot.

 

[TwoDeep3]

This is a good reply. Three things must happen for this season or any future season to be ultimately successful: a) Romo must minimize his mistakes; b) his teammates in all three aspects of the game must do their jobs as well; and c) coaching must solidly aid in the on-the-field decision-making, including Romo's.

I could have focused on the other two interceptions and made a much longer video, but it would have proved unnecessary. They were bad throws. Bad throws happen to every quarterback. This should be acknowledged by every observer, but it is not for some reason.

In my opinion, the emphasis cannot be placed on unteaching Romo his propensity of making these kinds of miscues. In all the time I have watched or played football, I have yet to see a quarterback "untaught". What I have seen taught many, MANY times is self-control and self-discipline. These strengths can and have helped quarterbacks be successful at all levels of football.

It is what Parcells first tried to drum into Romo at the onset of his career. Hopefully, these strengths can be reinstill within him more often than not in the future. In other words, reduce the number of bad play opportunities and you will receive good or even great quarterback play as a reward.
This reply however?

*Shakes my head*

First pick to Carpenter is the same pick with revis and the same pick in the Steelers game from a few years ago.

Repeating behavior or not learning from mistakes is the problem.

As for shaking your head, I have questioned this guy and do not make excuse threads for his play.

QB's will be beaten by defenders sometimes.

But consistently this guy makes this mistake and it seems the fans don't care.

Because this is a pet cat.