Interesing article, offense wins sbs.

Muhast

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http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/01/does-defense-win-championships.html





Jan 3, 2008

Does Defense Win Championships?

.fullpost{display:inline;} Well, of course. And so does offense. But the conventional wisdom that "defense wins championships" implies that defense is particularly more important than offense in the playoffs and the Super Bowl. This post will begin to look at whether defense really does matter more than offense in the NFL by comparing the right tails of the performance distributions of offenses and defenses--where playoff teams come from.

This time of year we are helped to the standard slew of articles declaring that defense is more important. Here is the latest example from ESPN.com. It's a good example because it suffers from some fatal flaws (itemized by Phil Birnbaum here). Typically, these articles look at past examples of NFL champions and comparing the offensive and defensive rankings of each team. I don't think this kind of analysis is necessarily very valid--

  • They are anecdotal
  • The sample size is usually very small, and results are probably not statistically significant--just due to chance
  • If the sample size is large, it covers very distinct periods of NFL passing and blocking rules, confounding any results
  • If the sample size is limited to one period of NFL rules, it can be dominated by one or two particular teams would skew the results (PIT in the 70s or NE currently, for example)
  • Often, the analysis shows that defense is indeed important, but not more important than offense
  • The rankings of each squad is almost always based on points scored or total yards, which are more often than not deceiving about the true performance of a squad
The biggest flaw may be using total points or total yards to compare squads. Offensive points scored is dependent on defense ability and special teams. Defenses that provide good field position allow an offense an easier time scoring. Teams with poor defenses provide poor field position, which allows their offense to gain more yards but probably fewer points scored. Additionally, teams that are winning will usually sacrifice total yards for chewing up time on the clock.

There is also an assumption that playoff football is somehow systematically different than regular season football. I'm not comfortable with that assumption--the rules are the same, the refs are the same, the field is still 100 yds long, and a touchdown is still 7 points. There are some unique things about the playoffs, but for now I'm going to set them aside and begin to look at how offenses and defenses compare in general by using regular season stats. (Using post-season stats is possible, but very problematic. About half of all playoff teams only play a single game before being eliminated, yielding very erratic and extreme team averages).

To best compare offensive and defensive performance and ability, squad efficiency--yards per play--should be used. Offensive and defensive efficiency are independent of each other. They aren't dependent on special teams or field position considerations. And perhaps most importantly, they aren't confused by the direction of causation. For example, total rushing yards correlates strongly with winning, but it's actually the winning that allows teams to inflate their rushing yards by eating the clock at the end of a winning game.

Efficiency stats are usually divided into passing and running efficiencies here at NFL Stats. But in this article we're interested in offenses and defenses as a package and not pass/run balance, so we'll use offensive efficiency (yards gained per offensive play) and defensive efficiency (yards allowed per offensive play). Data is from the 2002-2006 NFL seasons (N=160).

The graph below illustrates the actual distribution of team offensive and defensive efficiencies. The vertical axis represents the number of squads with the noted efficiency level (horizontal axis).



Team efficiencies are expected to be distributed approximately normally. That is, there are a few really great offenses, an equally few really poor ones, and a bunch of average ones. League offensive and defensive efficiency must be balanced--there has to be equally as many yards gained as allowed. Accordingly, the average offensive efficiency and the average defensive efficiency are both 5.3 yards per play. The standard deviations are different, however. Offensive efficiency is 0.49 yds and defensive efficiency is about 20% smaller at 0.38 yds.

With enough observations, we would expect the distributions to smooth out, resembling more of a typical bell-shaped normal distribution. With the given averages and standard deviations, the theoretical efficiencies are approximated in the figure below.



The actual and theoretical distributions show the same tendency--offensive efficiencies are spread wider than defensive efficiencies. Notice the right tails of the distributions (below). This is where playoff and championship teams come from. (Actually, we should be comparing the right tail of the offense and the left tail of the defense. But the normal distribution is symmetrical, so rotating the defense about the league average yields the same comparison.)



This means that great offenses tend to be "better" than great defenses, and terrible offenses tend to be "worse" than terrible defenses. If my offense is 2 standard deviations (SD) above the mean and your defense is 2 SD above the mean, my offense would tend to prevail because a great offense tends to gain more yards above the NFL average than an equally great defense allows below the NFL average.

So if a great offense usually trumps a great defense, where does the perception that "defense wins championships" come from? Truly dominant defenses such as the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Buccaneers, or 1985 Bears are relatively rare, and are therefore more memorable. Also, defense has traditionally been overlooked, at least by the mainstream hype-laden media. Even football insiders seem to focus on offense, demonstrated by who is inducted in the Hall of Fame, or who the MVPs tend to be. So the phrase "defense wins championships" may really mean "defense helps win championships more than most people think they do."

One thing that this analysis does not do is focus on the specific case of great offensive vs. great defense. It considers team efficiencies as a whole. While this analysis indicates the likely outcomes of strong offenses vs. strong defenses, it is an indirect inference. A case by case study could look at playoff-type match-ups of good teams only, and tell us more.

Admittedly, there are some special qualities about the playoffs. The outdoor weather in northern cities can be extreme, and the home team is more often the better team. Weather may indeed affect the balance of offense and defense, but it likely affects the balance between running and passing games more. And weather affects both opponents in a game, so it's not clear if it really matters. Playoff weather could also be analyzed in further research.

So when looking at the NFL as a whole, offense and defense balances symmetrically. But when focusing on the right tails of performance, where playoff teams come from, we see that great offenses out-pace equally great defenses.


-----------------------------------------------------
And then a poster said there have only been 10 sb's where the higher ranked offense lost.
http://www.blogger.com/email-post.g?blogID=38600807&postID=7336387178930194199


Thoughts?
 

LittleBoyBlue

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That whole "defense wins championships" is silly anyways...


Besides the Ravens(2001) how many "defenses" won the SB.
Yes I am sure there a few examples out there but it is not the norm.
 

casmith07

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Good statistical analysis. Being an engineer myself, I love seeing numbers used to prove things. Numbers are either right or wrong! There's no opinion :)
 

Muhast

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YoMick;2597325 said:
That whole "defense wins championships" is silly anyways...


Besides the Ravens(2001) how many "defenses" won the SB.
Yes I am sure there a few examples out there but it is not the norm.

I counted about 10 total. But that still is 30+ offenses or balanced teams as opposed to just 10 great defenses.

Obviously a good d will put you in decent field position helping your offense. But an offense like the 06 colts can keep their weak defense off the field. It goes both ways, yet we will hear "steelers defense will win the championship" 400 times this upcoming week.
 

Temo

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I love advancednflstats.com-- this one guy puts all the guys over at Footballoutsiders.com to shame when it comes to honest statistically rigorous research.

If the steelers win the Super Bowl, all the talking heads will say "Defense wins championships, because the Steelers had a good defense and the Cardinals have a good offense, but the Steelers won"

But in actuality, what we should be saying is that the Steeler's Offense+Defense+Special Teams+Coaching(+Luck) was better than the Cardinal's Offense+Defense+Special Teams+Coaching(+Luck) on that day.
 

jobberone

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It's both unless the D is totally dominating. Our first SB win was D but also O, too. But we did limit the Dolphins to 3 points, the lowest in SB history. We destroyed them.
 

The Panch

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YoMick;2597325 said:
That whole "defense wins championships" is silly anyways...


Besides the Ravens(2001) how many "defenses" won the SB.
Yes I am sure there a few examples out there but it is not the norm.
1. The Bucs

2. The Bears

3. The Giants all three times.

4. The first two and last Steelers teams. Potientally another next Sunday.

5. The underachieving Colts when their defense played lights out in the playoffs.




Statistically, the worst SB winning defenses in the regular season became dominant in the postseason, last year's Giants and the year before's Colts.




Take a look at the list of the highest scoring offenses in NFL history and see how many actually won SBs. Better yet, see how many points they DIDNT score in their playoff losses.
 

jday

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Another thing to consider, as far as the Play Offs and Super Bowl are concerned, is location. If the weather dictates your offensive strategy (e.g. windy/cold conditions make the running game paramount), than the better defense will typically win.

This year, the Super Bowl is in Tampa, so there will be no excuse. I've got a feeling this is Cardinal's year...that's, at least, the team I'm pulling for.
 

AdamJT13

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Temo;2597399 said:
I love advancednflstats.com-- this one guy puts all the guys over at Footballoutsiders.com to shame when it comes to honest statistically rigorous research.

Claiming he debunked the "defense wins championships" theory by looking only at average yards per play from the 2002 to 2006 regular seasons is "honest statistically rigorous research"?

All he did was show that, from 2002 to 2006, the variance in average yards per play was greater for offenses than for defenses during the regular season. He didn't do any research about championships at all, nor did he do any research outside that five-year period.
 

Temo

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AdamJT13;2597507 said:
Claiming he debunked the "defense wins championships" theory by looking only at average yards per play from the 2002 to 2006 regular seasons is "honest statistically rigorous research"?

All he did was show that, from 2002 to 2006, the variance in average yards per play was greater for offenses than for defenses during the regular season. He didn't do any research about championships at all, nor did he do any research outside that five-year period.

I wasn't referring to this particular article, which he has admitted isn't fully fleshed out yet. I'm a long time reader of his, however, and you should read his other work before coming to any conclusions.

Links: http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/07/drunkards-light-posts-and-myth-of-370.html
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/05/turnovers-and-2008-expected-wins.html
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/08/end-game.html
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/07/first-down-probability.html
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2007/12/best-defensive-player-in-nfl-isneil.html
 

Temo

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The Panch;2597415 said:
Take a look at the list of the highest scoring offenses in NFL history and see how many actually won SBs. Better yet, see how many points they DIDNT score in their playoff losses.

Well, the article talked about how points scored is so relative on game situation, but lets try the best scoring teams and defensive teams from the regular season and how they did in the playoffs:

2007: Patriots- 36.8 pts/game; Postseason- 22.0 pts/game (made superbowl)
Colts- 16.4 pts/game; 28 pts/game (1 and done)

2006: Chargers- 30.8 pts/game; 21 pts/game (lost AFC Championship)
Ravens- 12.6;15.0 (1 and done)

2005: Seahawks- 28.2; 21.3 (made superbowl)
Bears- 12.6;29.0 (1 and done)

Small sample, but someone with more time could keep going.
 

Jarv

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Take the stats and charts and stuff them.

Don't tell this old LBer that defense doesn't win championships !!!!

:mad:
 

The Panch

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Muhast;2597390 said:
I counted about 10 total. But that still is 30+ offenses or balanced teams as opposed to just 10 great defenses.

Obviously a good d will put you in decent field position helping your offense. But an offense like the 06 colts can keep their weak defense off the field. It goes both ways, yet we will hear "steelers defense will win the championship" 400 times this upcoming week.
Did you even watch their postseason play??


The defense was outstanding and their offense didnt become their strength til the 2nd half of the AFCC. The defense and the running game carried Peyton up until that game.
 

The Panch

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Temo;2597561 said:
Well, the article talked about how points scored is so relative on game situation, but lets try the best scoring teams and defensive teams from the regular season and how they did in the playoffs:

2007: Patriots- 36.8 pts/game; Postseason- 22.0 pts/game (made superbowl)
Colts- 16.4 pts/game; 28 pts/game (1 and done)

2006: Chargers- 30.8 pts/game; 21 pts/game (lost AFC Championship)
Ravens- 12.6;15.0 (1 and done)

2005: Seahawks- 28.2; 21.3 (made superbowl)
Bears- 12.6;29.0 (1 and done)

Small sample, but someone with more time could keep going.
1.

a) Why did the Pats lose the SB?? Cause their offense wasnt reliable against a good defensive effort and their D couldnt make the stops great defenses need to make.

b) The Colts lost their best defensive player in Dwight Freeney. They stopped being the best D in the NFL midway thru the season when they lost him. They just didnt play the quality opponents to expose their lack of pass rush outside of Jacksonville until they met SD.


2. But the Bears went to the SB the next year while the Seahawks lost the SB to a defensive minded team.
 

LittleBoyBlue

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The Panch;2597415 said:
1. The Bucs

2. The Bears

3. The Giants all three times.

4. The first two and last Steelers teams. Potientally another next Sunday.

5. The underachieving Colts when their defense played lights out in the playoffs.




Statistically, the worst SB winning defenses in the regular season became dominant in the postseason, last year's Giants and the year before's Colts.




Take a look at the list of the highest scoring offenses in NFL history and see how many actually won SBs. Better yet, see how many points they DIDNT score in their playoff losses.


We are gonna have to split the difference at the very least on the Giants last SB win.

For all intents and purposes their DEFENSE gave up the SB winning TD. It took the Manning/Tyree miracle to win that SB. Pats dropped how many INT's.
 

MONT17

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what about teams? lets talk about special teams winning the SB!
 

sonnyboy

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I never agreed with the Defense wins Championships theory.

I admit to being slightly biased as a 39yr old Cowboy fan who most identifies with our early 1990's team's.

What I find interesting about those teams is also something I believe occurs with most championship teams leading to the strength of the statistical arguement that defense wins championships.

I'll start with a question for the board.

Do you agree with me that the true strength of the 1992-1995 Cowboys was the offense?

If I recall, the defenses of those teams on average actually ranked higher statistically, than the offenses.

But I think most of you would agree that it was our offense that dominated opponents and seperated us from the pack.

Fairly high scoring, yet completely balanced yielding few turnovers. As good as we were in the passing game, it was the short yardage run game that really set us apart.

When we got inside the 10 yard line, no team could run for TD's as well as us. No team could convert 3 and 1 like us.
The real killer was often how effective we ran out of a spread formation on 3rd and 2, 3rd and 4, even 3rd and 6.
For every other team, 3rd and longer than 2 yards was almost a guaranteed pass play.
Not us.

Either way. Our very very good defense, benefited from our great offense.

I wonder how many other championship teams fall into this category.
 

Temo

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The Panch;2597592 said:
1.

a) Why did the Pats lose the SB?? Cause their offense wasnt reliable against a good defensive effort and their D couldnt make the stops great defenses need to make.

b) The Colts lost their best defensive player in Dwight Freeney. They stopped being the best D in the NFL midway thru the season when they lost him. They just didnt play the quality opponents to expose their lack of pass rush outside of Jacksonville until they met SD.


2. But the Bears went to the SB the next year while the Seahawks lost the SB to a defensive minded team.

So what you're really saying is that playing great defense wins games, not just having a great defense. But you could say the same exact thing about offense too. In how many super bowls does the team that performs worse on offense win?

All I'm saying is... all things equal, the team that gets the best Offense+Defense+special teams play, cumulative, will win the game.
 

NextGenBoys

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YoMick;2597325 said:
That whole "defense wins championships" is silly anyways...


Besides the Ravens(2001) how many "defenses" won the SB.
Yes I am sure there a few examples out there but it is not the norm.

Last year. The Giants beat the most explosive offense in NFL history and held them to 14 points.

BCS National Title game. Florida holds the best offense in NCAA history to 14 points and wins.

Defense will beat a good offense anyday. That being said, of course you have to have a good offense. But I will take the good defense over the good offense anyday.

Which is why Pittsburgh is favored.
 
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