Interesting radio point regarding Cowboys training and overall health

[JBond]

If therpaists are talking to one another about their patients and naming names; they are violating their oathes. Shame on them.

What oath is that? There may be some legal issues if true, but NFL doctors sold their soul years ago and magical oaths have little relevance. They are grabbing the money and don't really care about the players anyway.

#head trauma

 

[Bungarian]

This is not surprising. Another example of how Jerry does things that undermine and hurt the team.

 

[Idgit]

There is something definitley going on. And when you are Adrian Peterson...and you declare before the season you are going to rush for 2500 yards...you are driven individual and you are going to do EVERYTHING to get back on the field. He also has his sights on Emmits all time record. Can't break records from the sidelines. Dez has not gotten paid yet. He also declared a 2000 yard season for himself. So he is going to take that epidural and get on the field. Hopefually the culture in Dallas will not change him once he gets paid....but this stuff is not rocket science. Jerry is still getting paid. More than other owner. So this is not hard for me to believe. You also must factor in how him questioning Ratliffs desire to get back on the field has impacted this ENTIRE locker room. So please believe....there is something going on.

Well, I explicitly said there's obviously something going on, so we're in agreement there. There's no motivation for Jerry to hire trainers and then disregard what they prescribe. Why would he do that? There's a simpler explanation somewhere, we just don't have the visibility into the organization to know what it is, yet.

Some of these injuries: Crawford's achilles tendon, for example. Or Spencer's knee condition...these things are just bad luck. Ratliff's issues were very likely emotional and not a legitimate physical injury taking too long to heal. And, obviously, every NFL team deals with a fair share of injuries every season. If we're a few standard deviations to the right of the injury curve the last two seasons (and I really don't have a grip on the scale of how our problems might compare to the rest of the league), it's probably related to the soft-tissue injuries we seem to get so many of.

I don't know what the explanation might be, but I also haven't heard too many plausible theories. Who determines the team's stretching regimen, anyway? Trainers? Strength/conditioning coaches? The head coach? I do recall commenting when I went to camp how haphazard and half-hearted the warm up stretching period was. Players who wanted to stretch would apply themselves aggressively, but there were other players just going through the motions. It looked like my high school warm ups so much that I thought it was weird that a pro squad wouldn't take it more seriously.

Obviously, this is just something I pulled out of my backside, and I don't think it's something as easy as 'stretching better' to fix the problem, but I do think the problem has a physical explanation somewhere, and it's going to be something more practical than 'Jerry Jones says we don't have to do what we don't want to do.'

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

Well, I explicitly said there's obviously something going on, so we're in agreement there. There's no motivation for Jerry to hire trainers and then disregard what they prescribe. Why would he do that? There's a simpler explanation somewhere, we just don't have the visibility into the organization to know what it is, yet.

Some of these injuries: Crawford's achilles tendon, for example. Or Spencer's knee condition...these things are just bad luck. Ratliff's issues were very likely emotional and not a legitimate physical injury taking too long to heal. And, obviously, every NFL team deals with a fair share of injuries every season. If we're a few standard deviations to the right of the injury curve the last two seasons (and I really don't have a grip on the scale of how our problems might compare to the rest of the league), it's probably related to the soft-tissue injuries we seem to get so many of.

I don't know what the explanation might be, but I also haven't heard too many plausible theories. Who determines the team's stretching regimen, anyway? Trainers? Strength/conditioning coaches? The head coach? I do recall commenting when I went to camp how haphazard and half-hearted the warm up stretching period was. Players who wanted to stretch would apply themselves aggressively, but there were other players just going through the motions. It looked like my high school warm ups so much that I thought it was weird that a pro squad wouldn't take it more seriously.

Obviously, this is just something I pulled out of my backside, and I don't think it's something as easy as 'stretching better' to fix the problem, but I do think the problem has a physical explanation somewhere, and it's going to be something more practical than 'Jerry Jones says we don't have to do what we don't want to do.'

I absolutley have witnessed MANY professional athletes taking stretching/warming up very casually. If fact, they did a piece on Derrick Rose the other day. And Micheal Wilbon was joking with him about how he NEVER used to stretch. And now because of the injuries, he has learned to become psychotic about it. If you recall when Miles first started having these issues...Drew Pearson said it is the players responsibility to ensure strains and pulls are avoided. That led me to believe the team is not nearly as dilligent. And I don't blame the team. At times there are 90 players in a camp. You cannot have 90 massage therapists. They guys who want it bad do what it takes. They hire personal chefs. They get massages. They go to the chiropractor. Felix talked about how it took him a couple of years before he learned he needed to do all these things. Emmit was rolfing. Emmit was getting massages. People disregard all of the things that MADE Emmit great. All the sacrifices. They just talk about Barry the highlight reel. Given me Emmit all day every day. Because he was driven. He did everything off the field to make sure he stayed on the field. Which is why I would not take many guys over him!

Having said that...it is the organziations responsiblity to try and determine how bad a guy wants it....BEFORE they pay him. Like I said...Romo played through cracked ribs. WItten played with a busted spleen. Ware played 135+ games straight. These things do not happen by accident. They WANT it!

 

[Idgit]

I absolutley have witnessed MANY professional athletes taking stretching/warming up very casually. If fact, they did a piece on Derrick Rose the other day. And Micheal Wilbon was joking with him about how he NEVER used to stretch. And now because of the injuries, he has learned to become psychotic about it. If you recall when Miles first started having these issues...Drew Pearson said it is the players responsibility to ensure strains and pulls are avoided. That led me to believe the team is not nearly as dilligent. And I don't blame the team. At times there are 90 players in a camp. You cannot have 90 massage therapists. They guys who want it bad do what it takes. They hire personal chefs. They get massages. They go to the chiropractor. Felix talked about how it took him a couple of years before he learned he needed to do all these things. Emmit was rolfing. Emmit was getting massages. People disregard all of the things that MADE Emmit great. All the sacrifices. They just talk about Barry the highlight reel. Given me Emmit all day every day. Because he was driven. He did everything off the field to make sure he stayed on the field. Which is why I would not take many guys over him!

Having said that...it is the organziations responsiblity to try and determine how bad a guy wants it....BEFORE they pay him. Like I said...Romo played through cracked ribs. WItten played with a busted spleen. Ware played 135+ games straight. These things do not happen by accident. They WANT it!

Yeah, I buy all this (good stuff, too). I just think it's weird that so many guys can get to the professional athlete level and not understand the importance of stretching. You're there doing the stretches, anyway, it's hugely in your interest to do them properly. It protects you from injury, from pain, and it keeps you on the field, which can be the difference between making or not making a squad, or getting or not getting an extension. And it's so well documented how important it is. They wear compression clothing and go through the expensive post-injury therapies. And they've got however many trained specialists on staff that know how to do it and just how important it is.

It's like when I hear off-season discussions with the part-time nutritionist they brought in talk about the stuff they do to get proper nutrition for these guys. Electrolyte deficiencies during practice. Peanut butter sandwiches in the lockeroom at halftime. I mean, stuff you'd think was remedial nutrition 101 for a however-many billion dollar franchise and they're talking about it the way overprotective mommies at my kids' daycare might. And we're not alone in that. At the time, we were one of the few teams in the league that had a contracted nutritionist even part time.

Anyway, I don't know how relevant any of this is to the injury picture overall, but it does sort of make you scratch you head when you think about it. In some ways, the NFL isn't too far removed yet from those old-school scenes you might see in an episode of Friday Night Lights. It really is socks and jocks and a couple of iPads thrown in.

 

[lostar2009]

Is JJ involve in the rehab process too ??? OMG !!!!!
TO, Patrick Crayton, Pacman, and those other guys have never been Cancers to this team. Romo will never reach is full potential because he is never push or mentor properly thru is career. The D and O will stay average at best because we always go for flashy players...
Where do all these issues start and end with ??? Jerry Jones !!!!! He must go now !!!!

 

[TNCowboy]

When we know how Jones has interacted with coaches on the sidelines, getting into it with Ratliff, and the numerous other interferences we've seen over the years, why would anyone doubt this?

As to why would he ignore the professionals he's hired, you don't think he's done that with scouts and coaches. The man goes on radio, says we need to run the ball more, and whatdya know, we run it 30+ times the following game. Some of the inexplicable draft choices over the years are further testament.

Jones in the lockeroom, running players' rehab. Just another benefit of the Jones' Family Circus. Welcome aboard.

 

[CATCH17]

I love Fantasy Football so I heard reports from Physios talking to Miles about his hamstrings before the season and evidently he did extensive work trying to rehab his hamstrings.

The Cowboys were resting him more and he was trying to stay loose at all times instead of just standing or sitting.

They also said there is no real way to prevent hamstring problems that they know of. About the best thing you can do is try and stay loose.

 

[CATCH17]

Here is my solution. Get rid of Miles Austin we don't need cupcake players. There is enough on this team already.

I think we're stuck with Miles for a long time because of his contract. When we restructured it this offseason it basically put him here long term.

 

[Roadtrip635]

This is a good topic, btw, OP.

I'm not sure what the issue with the injuries has been the last two seasons, but something's obviously going on. On the one hand, we obviously have accomplished trainers who know what they're doing. On the other, I find it hard to swallow that we'd spend all that money on trainers, and then just ignore their recommendations. It's fun to poke fun at Jerry and say it's his ego, but the guy didn't get where he is by hiring good people and then doing what he wants to do, anyway.

I suspect this is, at most, a case where one therapist's at-a-distance diagnosis differs from that of the staff, and it creates an opportunity for criticism. That doesn't explain why we've got so many people hurt all the time, though.

I listened to the same interview this morning. The doctor's name BTW is Dr. Jason Garrett (No lie and no relation to Ginger that I'm aware) and claims to know the training and physical therapy staff well. When he was asked if certain players were injury prone, used Miles and Sean Lee in examples. He stated that Miles would not undergo the recommended therapy because of the initial discomfort and pain which leads to longer recovery and will be more prone to re-injury. He said that it was not the fault of the training staff to force Miles into the recommended rehab and that it was a situation that begins higher up. He said that on most pro sports teams, not just NFL, that the training staff have more power within the organization and that Jerry Jones is more concerned about the players perception of him. He wanted to be viewed as the caring father figure and not the businessman, which trickles into all aspects, training, workouts, etc not just rehab.
In Sean Lee's case he speculated that he is a workout warrior and trains very hard partly due to the fact that he is not as physically gifted as some and his greatest attribute is in the mental aspect of the game. He gets injured playing partly because he is working his body harder than some more naturally gifted and forces his body to keep up with quick thinking and instincts.

It was an interesting interview and particularly scathing about Jerry. He also said that Jerry tends to hire people he can control and not necessarily the best for the job.

 

[jnday]

I listened to the same interview this morning. The doctor's name BTW is Dr. Jason Garrett (No lie and no relation to Ginger that I'm aware) and claims to know the training and physical therapy staff well. When he was asked if certain players were injury prone, used Miles and Sean Lee in examples. He stated that Miles would not undergo the recommended therapy because of the initial discomfort and pain which leads to longer recovery and will be more prone to re-injury. He said that it was not the fault of the training staff to force Miles into the recommended rehab and that it was a situation that begins higher up. He said that on most pro sports teams, not just NFL, that the training staff have more power within the organization and that Jerry Jones is more concerned about the players perception of him. He wanted to be viewed as the caring father figure and not the businessman, which trickles into all aspects, training, workouts, etc not just rehab.
In Sean Lee's case he speculated that he is a workout warrior and trains very hard partly due to the fact that he is not as physically gifted as some and his greatest attribute is in the mental aspect of the game. He gets injured playing partly because he is working his body harder than some more naturally gifted and forces his body to keep up with quick thinking and instincts.

It was an interesting interview and particularly scathing about Jerry. He also said that Jerry tends to hire people he can control and not necessarily the best for the job.

Jerry hiring those he can control? Never read that before. lmao

 

[Idgit]

I listened to the same interview this morning. The doctor's name BTW is Dr. Jason Garrett (No lie and no relation to Ginger that I'm aware) and claims to know the training and physical therapy staff well. When he was asked if certain players were injury prone, used Miles and Sean Lee in examples. He stated that Miles would not undergo the recommended therapy because of the initial discomfort and pain which leads to longer recovery and will be more prone to re-injury. He said that it was not the fault of the training staff to force Miles into the recommended rehab and that it was a situation that begins higher up. He said that on most pro sports teams, not just NFL, that the training staff have more power within the organization and that Jerry Jones is more concerned about the players perception of him. He wanted to be viewed as the caring father figure and not the businessman, which trickles into all aspects, training, workouts, etc not just rehab.
In Sean Lee's case he speculated that he is a workout warrior and trains very hard partly due to the fact that he is not as physically gifted as some and his greatest attribute is in the mental aspect of the game. He gets injured playing partly because he is working his body harder than some more naturally gifted and forces his body to keep up with quick thinking and instincts.

It was an interesting interview and particularly scathing about Jerry. He also said that Jerry tends to hire people he can control and not necessarily the best for the job.

Wow, well, this is great context. And it does sort of inform the criticism better. It's still obviously coming from one person's specific opinion, and he can't have very much access to Jerry personally, one way or another. But it's an informed opinion, and it's also reasonable to assume he's getting some info second-hand from people actually in the organization. Thanks for sharing the details.

 

[Zordon]

I listened to the same interview this morning. The doctor's name BTW is Dr. Jason Garrett (No lie and no relation to Ginger that I'm aware) and claims to know the training and physical therapy staff well. When he was asked if certain players were injury prone, used Miles and Sean Lee in examples. He stated that Miles would not undergo the recommended therapy because of the initial discomfort and pain which leads to longer recovery and will be more prone to re-injury. He said that it was not the fault of the training staff to force Miles into the recommended rehab and that it was a situation that begins higher up. He said that on most pro sports teams, not just NFL, that the training staff have more power within the organization and that Jerry Jones is more concerned about the players perception of him. He wanted to be viewed as the caring father figure and not the businessman, which trickles into all aspects, training, workouts, etc not just rehab.
In Sean Lee's case he speculated that he is a workout warrior and trains very hard partly due to the fact that he is not as physically gifted as some and his greatest attribute is in the mental aspect of the game. He gets injured playing partly because he is working his body harder than some more naturally gifted and forces his body to keep up with quick thinking and instincts.

It was an interesting interview and particularly scathing about Jerry. He also said that Jerry tends to hire people he can control and not necessarily the best for the job.

all I can do is shake my head. miles is a pansy. i hate that coward.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I listened to the same interview this morning. The doctor's name BTW is Dr. Jason Garrett (No lie and no relation to Ginger that I'm aware) and claims to know the training and physical therapy staff well. When he was asked if certain players were injury prone, used Miles and Sean Lee in examples. He stated that Miles would not undergo the recommended therapy because of the initial discomfort and pain which leads to longer recovery and will be more prone to re-injury. He said that it was not the fault of the training staff to force Miles into the recommended rehab and that it was a situation that begins higher up. He said that on most pro sports teams, not just NFL, that the training staff have more power within the organization and that Jerry Jones is more concerned about the players perception of him. He wanted to be viewed as the caring father figure and not the businessman, which trickles into all aspects, training, workouts, etc not just rehab.
In Sean Lee's case he speculated that he is a workout warrior and trains very hard partly due to the fact that he is not as physically gifted as some and his greatest attribute is in the mental aspect of the game. He gets injured playing partly because he is working his body harder than some more naturally gifted and forces his body to keep up with quick thinking and instincts.

It was an interesting interview and particularly scathing about Jerry. He also said that Jerry tends to hire people he can control and not necessarily the best for the job.

Explains a lot. thanks.

 

[Seven]

Why am I not surprised that our great higher up would also get involved with player rehab.... This might be why Ratliff had such an issue....

It's EXACTLY why Ratt had an issue.

I would bet the farm on it.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I listened to the same interview this morning. The doctor's name BTW is Dr. Jason Garrett

So Miles didn't go through the process of stacking good rehab days on top of good rehab days.

 

[AbeBeta]

I think we're stuck with Miles for a long time because of his contract. When we restructured it this offseason it basically put him here long term.

No it didn't. Looks like we'd save about 500k if we release him (comparing his cap hit vs. dead money)

 

[EPL0c0]

It all starts with Jerry!

Until somebody on the roster (Witten, Romo, Ware) or one of 3 (Aikman, Emmitt, Irvin) speak up and out loud and criticize Jerry's role in the team, nothing will change.

 

[Zman5]

So if it's Jerry's meddling that's causing these injury/rehab issues, why didn't we see it before past few years?

We have been average to below average as far as number of injuries are concerned until past 2 years.

 

[T-RO]

Whew, a lot of hearsay and speculation in this thread, wouldn't you say? And I suspect we don't know enough to be calling Austin a "cupcake" or "heartless."

That said, I think a sensible GM would take a practical view of injuries: If you can't stay healthy you can't stay a Cowboy. It's nothing personal...it's about results.