Interesting Rushing stats

[GroundZero1970]

Dallas had the 2nd ranked rushing attack last year amassing 2354 yds,pretty impressive right? The third ranked rushing attack was theNew York Jets with 2280 yds. The Jets used a committee,of B. Powell, Chris Ivory,and Chris Johnson, Johnson had 663 of those 2280 yards. This rb by committee in Dallas can and will work, Mcfadden, Williams, Randle and Dunbar are just as talented as wat the Jet trotted on the field, the difference is our O-line is better. We will be fine

 

[mattjames2010]

Geno Smith had 238 yards rushing.

Chris Ivory - 821 yards rushing, 6 TDs
Chris Johnson - 663 yards, 1 TD
Bilal Powell - 141 yards, 1 TD

Despite the hatred that people have for Chris Johnson, he's better than Randle and Dunbar by a LONG shot. He's most likely better than McFadden as well. The problem here is, even if you do the RBBC approach, you still have to have talented RBs. You don't just sign guys off the street, slapped them all together and think it will have that success. And really, the Jets weren't all that successful, despite the rushing totals. No one feared their running game.

 

[reddyuta]

None of these guys are physical runners like Murray who is going to get you the dirty yards which kept the chains moving?

 

[gimmesix]

Dallas had the 2nd ranked rushing attack last year amassing 2354 yds,pretty impressive right? The third ranked rushing attack was theNew York Jets with 2280 yds. The Jets used a committee,of B. Powell, Chris Ivory,and Chris Johnson, Johnson had 663 of those 2280 yards. This rb by committee in Dallas can and will work, Mcfadden, Williams, Randle and Dunbar are just as talented as wat the Jet trotted on the field, the difference is our O-line is better. We will be fine

Let's check that "just as talented" comment.

Ivory has never averaged less than the 4.1 YPC he had last year, when he got his most carries and yards. He averaged 4.6 per carry the previous season on 182 carries. His other 100-plus carry season came in 2010, when he averaged 5.2 on 137. So he's averaged 4.1 or better for 5 seasons.

Chris Johnson averaged 4.0 or better every year for Tennessee until 2013, when he averaged 3.9 on 279 carries. He bounced back with 4.3 on 155, so fewer carries seemed to do him good. So he's averaged 4.0 or better in 6 of 7 seasons.

Bilal Powell has averaged 4.0 or better in 3 of 4 seasons, including both of his seasons with 110-plus carries. He averaged 1.6 his first season on 13 carries.

Now, to our backs:

Darren McFadden has averaged 4.4 of better in 3 of his 7 seasons. The other 4 seasons, including his past 3, he has averaged 3.4 or below. He has carried the ball at least 104 times every season.

Ryan Williams averaged 2.8 the only season he has played, but carried the ball only 58 times.

Joseph Randle has carried the ball only just more than 50 times in each of his 2 seasons. He averaged 3.0 his first year and 6.7 last year. He started 2 games his first year and none last year.

Lance Dunbar has averaged more than 3.6 once in his 3 seasons, with his 5.0 average coming the year he got his most carries (30).

So to recap:

New York's back: 4.0-plus in 14 of 16 seasons.

Dallas backs: 4.0-plus in 5 of 13 seasons.

 

[jrumann59]

None of these guys are physical runners like Murray who is going to get you the dirty yards which kept the chains moving?

Part of the reason they were dirty yards is Murray always looked for contact and not daylight.

 

[hutch1254]

Geno Smith had 238 yards rushing.

Chris Ivory - 821 yards rushing, 6 TDs
Chris Johnson - 663 yards, 1 TD
Bilal Powell - 141 yards, 1 TD

Despite the hatred that people have for Chris Johnson, he's better than Randle and Dunbar by a LONG shot. He's most likely better than McFadden as well. The problem here is, even if you do the RBBC approach, you still have to have talented RBs. You don't just sign guys off the street, slapped them all together and think it will have that success. And really, the Jets weren't all that successful, despite the rushing totals. No one feared their running game.

You know how a legit pass rush takes pressure off the secondary? Can a legit QB take pressure of a run game? Kind of weird to say I guess. Jets don't have a QB, we do. Jets getting the 3rd most rushing yards with garbage at the QB position is actually pretty impressive to me.

I'm not thrilled about not having a bell cow RB in the backfield. Maybe one does emerge who knows but I agree with what you said about the RBBC approach, still need some talent in those RB's that make up the committee.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Dallas had the 2nd ranked rushing attack last year amassing 2354 yds,pretty impressive right? The third ranked rushing attack was theNew York Jets with 2280 yds. The Jets used a committee,of B. Powell, Chris Ivory,and Chris Johnson, Johnson had 663 of those 2280 yards. This rb by committee in Dallas can and will work, Mcfadden, Williams, Randle and Dunbar are just as talented as wat the Jet trotted on the field, the difference is our O-line is better. We will be fine

new England used the same approach and they won the superbowl. very few teams have a RB that carries the load any more. and the jets had a very bad QB and WR situation, which means the teams stacked the line to stop them as that was their only offense.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Dallas had the 2nd ranked rushing attack last year amassing 2354 yds,pretty impressive right? The third ranked rushing attack was theNew York Jets with 2280 yds. The Jets used a committee,of B. Powell, Chris Ivory,and Chris Johnson, Johnson had 663 of those 2280 yards. This rb by committee in Dallas can and will work, Mcfadden, Williams, Randle and Dunbar are just as talented as wat the Jet trotted on the field, the difference is our O-line is better. We will be fine

I agree a committee can work here. But Ivory are Johnson are better RB then anything we have in my opinion. Ivory especially is a good back. If Randle wasnt such a bad apple, I would be really interested in him being the lead back here.

 

[mattjames2010]

new England used the same approach and they won the superbowl. very few teams have a RB that carries the load any more. and the jets had a very bad QB and WR situation, which means the teams stacked the line to stop them as that was their only offense.

New England also has Tom Brady throwing over 600 times. Not even remotely the same as our scheme. Want to look at a scheme similar to ours? Look at what the Texans did in 2011-2012 on offense.

 

[Longboysfan]

Curious when everyone is saying that an RB's production goes down after a 400 carry year.
I'm not in the stat department but someone could look at this.
On teams with a 400 carry back. With high yards.
Where were they ranked team ways in rushing that year.
Where was the team ranked in rushing the next year?

 

[JoeKing]

Let's check that "just as talented" comment.

Ivory has never averaged less than the 4.1 YPC he had last year, when he got his most carries and yards. He averaged 4.6 per carry the previous season on 182 carries. His other 100-plus carry season came in 2010, when he averaged 5.2 on 137. So he's averaged 4.1 or better for 5 seasons.

Chris Johnson averaged 4.0 or better every year for Tennessee until 2013, when he averaged 3.9 on 279 carries. He bounced back with 4.3 on 155, so fewer carries seemed to do him good. So he's averaged 4.0 or better in 6 of 7 seasons.

Bilal Powell has averaged 4.0 or better in 3 of 4 seasons, including both of his seasons with 110-plus carries. He averaged 1.6 his first season on 13 carries.

Now, to our backs:

Darren McFadden has averaged 4.4 of better in 3 of his 7 seasons. The other 4 seasons, including his past 3, he has averaged 3.4 or below. He has carried the ball at least 104 times every season.

Ryan Williams averaged 2.8 the only season he has played, but carried the ball only 58 times.

Joseph Randle has carried the ball only just more than 50 times in each of his 2 seasons. He averaged 3.0 his first year and 6.7 last year. He started 2 games his first year and none last year.

Lance Dunbar has averaged more than 3.6 once in his 3 seasons, with his 5.0 average coming the year he got his most carries (30).

So to recap:

New York's back: 4.0-plus in 14 of 16 seasons.

Dallas backs: 4.0-plus in 5 of 13 seasons.

The analytics being cast about on this thread doesn't really work. You can't compare the Jets RB with ours because the conditions aren't the same on both teams. It's an apples to oranges comparison. This is also true when trying to compare McFadden when he played in Oakland to RBs from any other team. These RBs were running under different conditions so they do not compare fairly. If you want to compare RBs on the same team then okay, they have the same blocking and facing the same defenses... that is a fair comparison or better known as apples to apples.

 

[gimmesix]

The analytics being cast about on this thread doesn't really work. You can't compare the Jets RB with ours because the conditions aren't the same on both teams. It's an apples to oranges comparison. This is also true when trying to compare McFadden when he played in Oakland to RBs from any other team. These RBs were running under different conditions so they do not compare fairly. If you want to compare RBs on the same team then okay, they have the same blocking and facing the same defenses... that is a fair comparison or better known as apples to apples.

It's impossible to compare the players fairly because the conditions will always be different. I get tired of the argument. We compare QBs all the time despite each situation being different. We look at sack numbers for one player and deem him better than another without looking at his opportunities to rush the passer, the quality of the players around him, etc. Dez is one of the top receivers in the league. Would he be without Romo throwing the ball to him? There is no equal measure.

What I've presented is not perfect, but if someone has a better way to compare the backs please do so. The evidence I've presented is simple and factual with no conclusions drawn. I purposely left it that way because while I do have an opinion based on those numbers (and it's easy to see what it is), I wanted to let the numbers speak for themselves ... as much as they can.

 

[yimyammer]

Geno Smith had 238 yards rushing.

Chris Ivory - 821 yards rushing, 6 TDs
Chris Johnson - 663 yards, 1 TD
Bilal Powell - 141 yards, 1 TD

Despite the hatred that people have for Chris Johnson, he's better than Randle and Dunbar by a LONG shot. He's most likely better than McFadden as well. The problem here is, even if you do the RBBC approach, you still have to have talented RBs. You don't just sign guys off the street, slapped them all together and think it will have that success. And really, the Jets weren't all that successful, despite the rushing totals. No one feared their running game.

I bet teams "feared" their running game more than Geno (which isn't necessarily saying much)

 

[yimyammer]

Here are some more stats I think are interesting:

In terms of career touches, Murray and McFadden are pretty close (McFadden after 7 years in the league and Murray after 4):

McFadden = 1255 Touches (1038 Rushes + 211 Receiving + 3 Returns + 3 Pass attempts) - 17 (12 lost) fumbles (1 per 74/1 lost per 105)

Murray = 1107 Touches (934 Rushes + 171 Receiving + 2 Returns + 0 Pass attempts) - 12 (8 lost) fumbles (1 per 92/1 lost per 139)

McFadden is 27 years, 8 months old
Demarco is 27 years, 2 months old

Of course there are a lot of reasons for the difference, not all good, that will likely spark a lot of debate but as far as wear and tear, they're pretty similar. Fumbling is a bigger issue with McFadden.

I don't have any idea how things will turn out but its going to be interesting to see how they both do this year.

 

[Deep_South]

I think it is important to note the Jets had Geno Smith and Michael Vick at QB. Their TD to INT ratio was roughly 1:1. Good incentive to run the ball. The Jets were 28th in the league in putting points on the board at 17.7, a full point per game behind number 27 Cleveland. The Boys averaged 29.2 points a game, tied with the Pats for 4th in the league.

 

[gimmesix]

The analytics being cast about on this thread doesn't really work. You can't compare the Jets RB with ours because the conditions aren't the same on both teams. It's an apples to oranges comparison. This is also true when trying to compare McFadden when he played in Oakland to RBs from any other team. These RBs were running under different conditions so they do not compare fairly. If you want to compare RBs on the same team then okay, they have the same blocking and facing the same defenses... that is a fair comparison or better known as apples to apples.

I actually think comparing running backs on the same team is a poor way to evaluate them because the number of carries can really affect their stats.

For instance, I don't think it's fair to say Randle averaging 6.7 last year makes him a better back than Murray, who averaged 4.7. With only 51 carries, a few long runs can really skew the average.

To experiment, we'll take out any runs longer than 30 yards by either player. That subtracts 38, 65 and 40 from Randle's numbers and lowers his total to 200 on 48 carries, which gives him 4.16 per carry, which is still good.

Murray loses a 44, 51, 40 and 32. That lowers his average to 4.32.

So both backs did well, but the adjusted average shows that Murray was the better back. However, it's not perfect to assume that since long runs are a part of every back's average. There would be a lot of 3-yard averages without them.

I'm not going to go back and do that for every back on our team. If you want to do a comparison of McFadden's numbers to his ex-teammates or Williams' to his former teammates, feel free.

 

[JoeKing]

It's impossible to compare the players fairly because the conditions will always be different. I get tired of the argument. We compare QBs all the time despite each situation being different. We look at sack numbers for one player and deem him better than another without looking at his opportunities to rush the passer, the quality of the players around him, etc. Dez is one of the top receivers in the league. Would he be without Romo throwing the ball to him? There is no equal measure.

What I've presented is not perfect, but if someone has a better way to compare the backs please do so. The evidence I've presented is simple and factual with no conclusions drawn. I purposely left it that way because while I do have an opinion based on those numbers (and it's easy to see what it is), I wanted to let the numbers speak for themselves ... as much as they can.

You are correct, it is impossible to compare the players fairly... yet you attempt to do so anyway. It's not a matter of finding a fairer way of comparing these players, it's comparing them at all and believing those comparisons net tangible measurables.

 

[JoeKing]

I actually think comparing running backs on the same team is a poor way to evaluate them because the number of carries can really affect their stats.

For instance, I don't think it's fair to say Randle averaging 6.7 last year makes him a better back than Murray, who averaged 4.7. With only 51 carries, a few long runs can really skew the average.

To experiment, we'll take out any runs longer than 30 yards by either player. That subtracts 38, 65 and 40 from Randle's numbers and lowers his total to 200 on 48 carries, which gives him 4.16 per carry, which is still good.

Murray loses a 44, 51, 40 and 32. That lowers his average to 4.32.

So both backs did well, but the adjusted average shows that Murray was the better back. However, it's not perfect to assume that since long runs are a part of every back's average. There would be a lot of 3-yard averages without them.

I'm not going to go back and do that for every back on our team. If you want to do a comparison of McFadden's numbers to his ex-teammates or Williams' to his former teammates, feel free.

Of course the number of carries affect the average, I'm not arguing against that point. But I do think it's fair to compare the first 20 runs of each RB on a team and average those to compare.

 

[gimmesix]

You are correct, it is impossible to compare the players fairly... yet you attempt to do so anyway. It's not a matter of finding a fairer way of comparing these players, it's comparing them at all and believing those comparisons net tangible measurables.

So, your way of looking at it is to make no comparisons at all? This thread started out as a comparison: Running back by committee worked for the Jets, so it will work for Dallas because our backs are just as talented.

How do you prove or disprove that premise? Or do you just put blinders on and say what will be will be?

I compared the backs using what I believe to be the most accurate measure we can use, understanding that it is flawed but can still at least give us a picture of what we might can expect. It doesn't mean that's what we'll get because there are other variables at play. However, it's much more valuable to me than just saying we're just as good and closing our eyes to any evidence to the contrary.

I firmly hope McFadden can find that rare form that had him topping 5 yards a carry, that Williams can stay healthy and show he's more than a 2.8 back, that Randle's success last year wasn't the result of being the backup to a back teams had to focus on ... but I'm not going to stick my head in the sand when so much evidence shows the contrary.

 

[joseephuss]

Geno Smith had 238 yards rushing.

Chris Ivory - 821 yards rushing, 6 TDs
Chris Johnson - 663 yards, 1 TD
Bilal Powell - 141 yards, 1 TD

Despite the hatred that people have for Chris Johnson, he's better than Randle and Dunbar by a LONG shot. He's most likely better than McFadden as well. The problem here is, even if you do the RBBC approach, you still have to have talented RBs. You don't just sign guys off the street, slapped them all together and think it will have that success. And really, the Jets weren't all that successful, despite the rushing totals. No one feared their running game.

No one feared or respected the Jets passing game.