Interesting stat on SportsCenter
- Thread starter blindzebra
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Maikeru-sama
Mick Green 58
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Nice post...but that will not help me sleep good at night.
Kind of like that stat they showed during the First Commanders game...the one where Big Bill's record was....1,000,000-0-0 when leading in the fourth quarter...
- Mike G.
Kind of like that stat they showed during the First Commanders game...the one where Big Bill's record was....1,000,000-0-0 when leading in the fourth quarter...
- Mike G.
Zman5
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Zaxor said:
Gibbs and Coughlin has been back 2 years and these are their records.
Coughlin is 17-15 and one playoff appearance.
Gibbs is 16-16 and one playoff appearance.
BP is 16-16 his and one playoff appearance in his first two years in Dallas.
Looks about the same to me.
kartr
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blindzebra said:In 1986 in his 4th year with the Giants Parcells won the SB.
In 1996 in his 4th year with NE Parcells got to the SB.
2006 will be his 4th year in Dallas.
Here's hoping it's a 10 year cycle that has a 20 year cycle thrown in for good measure.
Shouldn't we get to the playoffs first before talking about super bowls.
Zaxor
Virtus Mille Scuta
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Zman5 said:
depends if they only for example won 2 games their first year they are doing well this year...lets not be silly.
but we know for sure though that Bill just had the largest collapse after going 7-3 in the Cowboys 46 year History
Eskimo
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Zman5 said:
The big difference is those guys have their teams on the upswing in their second years and built solid, competitive teams.
BP lucked out with a weak schedule and made the playoffs with a very mediocre ball club in 2003 and then his team promptly collapsed in 2004.
I don't think we will substantially improve from where we are now next year. I think he has taken us as far as he can. I just hope he doesn't screw over the future regime by bringing in a bunch of overpaid old veteran bandaid solutions and handcuffing them in terms of the salary cap.
blindzebra
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Good job to all.
I start a thread with a meaningless stat, that is fun and has some hope to it, and you guys drag it down with all kinds of negative crap.
Lame, really lame.
Makes me long for a big_neil Bledsoe thread.
I start a thread with a meaningless stat, that is fun and has some hope to it, and you guys drag it down with all kinds of negative crap.
Lame, really lame.
Makes me long for a big_neil Bledsoe thread.
Redball Express
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IMO..
The common denominator is Talent. And the defining edge is Coaching.
When healthy, we are on a par talent-wise at this point. The 7-3 record showed that.
But after that, the injuries to the LBers, OL and the RB's deleted too much talent. Therefore the 2-4 down the stretch.
I think even if we had gone 10-6, which we should have been able to do if they had anything to play for in the last game, it still wasn't going to be enough for us to do anything in the playoffs.
So I think all the blood-letting needs to stop.
I think that where the team will improve is if we can get a few more pieces in the draft and FA and shore up the Coaching part of the equation.
We had five main areas of concern that ended our season:
OL
LBers
K's
RB's
and
losing on the road.
Part of the equation to get improvement is to shore up these areas above and part of that is to get improvement in the coaching.
I was pretty disappointed in the play of the team when it was on the road and BP's style of play when he was playing games away from Texas Stadium was entirely too conservative and too often buryed the team early with falling behind in the first quarter and having to fight an uphill struggle that just couldn't be overcome consistantly.
And it wasn't only on the road this happened, but it was even heavier dosage-wise when we were on the road. Not where you want to come from in todays NFL.
Letting the team slug out TOP only to score 14-21 points in the NFL and rely on FG's to be the difference just doesn't work anymore, especially when we had the injury to Cundiff before even the first game.
And while BP continued to point out the Cowboys were leading the league in TOP even as we were losing games, was ludicrious. TOP doesn't win games. It shortens games. Which is fine if you're leading and have the talent to lead games, but the '05 Cowboys were not.
If you're behind and playing TOP with a team that has trouble scoring, it only adds pressure to the team and mistakes get magnified.
Which is what ultimately happened. This problem is squarely on BP and nobody else. How or if this changes will define us next year greatly.
In addition to BP and his coaching shortfalls, the new OL coach was in his first year and was asked to deal with a ton of new faces and interchangable parts, not all of which were Grade A.
The fact that we fired Hoffman in the off-season and then had the injuries and had nobody to help Cundiff in his slump when he returned turned out to be big.
So that's three vital areas of concern that were coached by an inexperienced position coach or no coach at all as we had with Hoffman or by a HC who stubbornly stayed with coaching stratagies that set the team up for failures in the vast majority of their away games.
And the defense appeared to max out as the season wore on, despite the concentration of depth and draft picks designed to fortify that area for sustaining the team over a 16 game schedule.
That responsibility falls to Zimmer, another coach who had his hands full absorbing the 3-4 and working with a ton of new faces and unproven talent in the rookies. But as the season got to crunch time, the defense folded as well.
And yes, injuries to Henry and Glenn and Singleton and Dat surely had the same effect over time that the OL injuries had to the offense.
So really, it's very difficult to compare past records to present talent and coaching, which is what you are trying to compare.
I wouldn't equate them at all.
But what I would look at is the present coaching staff and the present coaching philosophies vs. the past coaching staffs and past coaching philosophies that BP had in place in those other situations as compared to what he has now.
This coaching staff is still very much in flux and if Zimmer or Payton or both end up leaving, too, I think that is going to have as much of an effect on next year as any talent we might bring in and could shove the progress curve back another season ..
..if too much change has to happen again in the coaching staffs.
On the other hand, if new coaches are brought in, the possibility exists that new HC philosophies might take hold..ones in which we get aggressive on offense and go out with an intention to score early and often or have a defense which actually plays an aggressive 3-4 defense, which as the season wore on in '05, we didn't under ZImmer.
Or that we finally stop deluding ourselves that we don't need to go out and sign and pay for a quality FG kicker. That one thing could have changed 2-3 games this year and none of us would be pointing any fingers at all.
If I had my wish, I'd really like to see all the parts stay if possible and let the coaches get a chance to take what was learned and apply it to next year, rather than start over with new guys..rather than go through more coaching changes.
Parcells improved in his fourth years as much from having built strong coaches below him that helped him get to the degree of success he's enjoyed at his stops. And when he was successful, his staffs were raided by other teams, many of whom went on to be successful in their own right.
Much as Landry constantly had over the years and Jimmy Johnson had after his run with Dallas.
So we'll know when the team improves when the coaches have improved to the point they get taken by other teams. I'm personally hoping we are still a year away from losing Payton or Zimmer. I'm hoping they are getting interviews but not great offers..
..so that next year..if they team improves, they will be leaving because the team was improved and they leave for new jobs having completed their work in Dallas and helped Parcells get back to being respected and winning, too.
And of course, the Dallas Cowboys as a whole.
So compare all the stats you want. To me, it's talent and coaches and having consistancy in both over a few years that gets you winning.
We haven't had cosistancy in either yet.
But I think we are close.
We'll see.
parcellswaterboy
The common denominator is Talent. And the defining edge is Coaching.
When healthy, we are on a par talent-wise at this point. The 7-3 record showed that.
But after that, the injuries to the LBers, OL and the RB's deleted too much talent. Therefore the 2-4 down the stretch.
I think even if we had gone 10-6, which we should have been able to do if they had anything to play for in the last game, it still wasn't going to be enough for us to do anything in the playoffs.
So I think all the blood-letting needs to stop.
I think that where the team will improve is if we can get a few more pieces in the draft and FA and shore up the Coaching part of the equation.
We had five main areas of concern that ended our season:
OL
LBers
K's
RB's
and
losing on the road.
Part of the equation to get improvement is to shore up these areas above and part of that is to get improvement in the coaching.
I was pretty disappointed in the play of the team when it was on the road and BP's style of play when he was playing games away from Texas Stadium was entirely too conservative and too often buryed the team early with falling behind in the first quarter and having to fight an uphill struggle that just couldn't be overcome consistantly.
And it wasn't only on the road this happened, but it was even heavier dosage-wise when we were on the road. Not where you want to come from in todays NFL.
Letting the team slug out TOP only to score 14-21 points in the NFL and rely on FG's to be the difference just doesn't work anymore, especially when we had the injury to Cundiff before even the first game.
And while BP continued to point out the Cowboys were leading the league in TOP even as we were losing games, was ludicrious. TOP doesn't win games. It shortens games. Which is fine if you're leading and have the talent to lead games, but the '05 Cowboys were not.
If you're behind and playing TOP with a team that has trouble scoring, it only adds pressure to the team and mistakes get magnified.
Which is what ultimately happened. This problem is squarely on BP and nobody else. How or if this changes will define us next year greatly.
In addition to BP and his coaching shortfalls, the new OL coach was in his first year and was asked to deal with a ton of new faces and interchangable parts, not all of which were Grade A.
The fact that we fired Hoffman in the off-season and then had the injuries and had nobody to help Cundiff in his slump when he returned turned out to be big.
So that's three vital areas of concern that were coached by an inexperienced position coach or no coach at all as we had with Hoffman or by a HC who stubbornly stayed with coaching stratagies that set the team up for failures in the vast majority of their away games.
And the defense appeared to max out as the season wore on, despite the concentration of depth and draft picks designed to fortify that area for sustaining the team over a 16 game schedule.
That responsibility falls to Zimmer, another coach who had his hands full absorbing the 3-4 and working with a ton of new faces and unproven talent in the rookies. But as the season got to crunch time, the defense folded as well.
And yes, injuries to Henry and Glenn and Singleton and Dat surely had the same effect over time that the OL injuries had to the offense.
So really, it's very difficult to compare past records to present talent and coaching, which is what you are trying to compare.
I wouldn't equate them at all.
But what I would look at is the present coaching staff and the present coaching philosophies vs. the past coaching staffs and past coaching philosophies that BP had in place in those other situations as compared to what he has now.
This coaching staff is still very much in flux and if Zimmer or Payton or both end up leaving, too, I think that is going to have as much of an effect on next year as any talent we might bring in and could shove the progress curve back another season ..
..if too much change has to happen again in the coaching staffs.
On the other hand, if new coaches are brought in, the possibility exists that new HC philosophies might take hold..ones in which we get aggressive on offense and go out with an intention to score early and often or have a defense which actually plays an aggressive 3-4 defense, which as the season wore on in '05, we didn't under ZImmer.
Or that we finally stop deluding ourselves that we don't need to go out and sign and pay for a quality FG kicker. That one thing could have changed 2-3 games this year and none of us would be pointing any fingers at all.
If I had my wish, I'd really like to see all the parts stay if possible and let the coaches get a chance to take what was learned and apply it to next year, rather than start over with new guys..rather than go through more coaching changes.
Parcells improved in his fourth years as much from having built strong coaches below him that helped him get to the degree of success he's enjoyed at his stops. And when he was successful, his staffs were raided by other teams, many of whom went on to be successful in their own right.
Much as Landry constantly had over the years and Jimmy Johnson had after his run with Dallas.
So we'll know when the team improves when the coaches have improved to the point they get taken by other teams. I'm personally hoping we are still a year away from losing Payton or Zimmer. I'm hoping they are getting interviews but not great offers..
..so that next year..if they team improves, they will be leaving because the team was improved and they leave for new jobs having completed their work in Dallas and helped Parcells get back to being respected and winning, too.
And of course, the Dallas Cowboys as a whole.
So compare all the stats you want. To me, it's talent and coaches and having consistancy in both over a few years that gets you winning.
We haven't had cosistancy in either yet.
But I think we are close.
We'll see.
parcellswaterboy
lspain1
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big dog cowboy said:
You are correct in saying there were reasons for our season that centered mostly around personnel. We had a good draft and picked up some decent FA's. Our year does speak volumes on how bad the talent base on our team really was. The transition to the 3-4 also casued some new holes to appear.
I am not one of BP's big critics here. Our coordinators are not being interviewed for HC jobs because they suck. If Parcells left the Cowboys, his phone would be ringing off the hook. That being said, the critics have some points. Some calculated gambles backfired and a legitimate argument can be made about long term health at key skill positions.
For me, next year is the key year. We either succeed with BP's plan, and by success I mean making it to the NFC championship game, or BP must go and we bring in a long term head coach. The Cowboys organization took some major personnel steps last year and this is the year it needs to pay off if we are going to take the next step.
If we don't succeed by this time next year there will more uncertainty around here than you can stand.