Is Allen Bailey just Vernon Gholston part II?

[realtick]

Heading into the 2010 season I heard a lot of the hype behind Miami Hurricane DL Allen Bailey. I watched a couple of his games and some of his highlight clips from AloAloysius (shows all the snaps, good or bad) on YouTube.

I was left somewhat impressed (not overly) by Bailey's athleticism, but he seemed to struggle getting consistant pressure and diagnosing plays, often failing to locate the ball and being suckered for screens. Basically, not displaying the type of instincts you would want in a lineman.

Now, I'm hearing this guy looked like Adonis at the weigh-ins at the Senior Bowl after dropping some weight.

I can't help but think of the similiarities with Jet's bust, Vernon Gholston.

What's your impression of him?

 

[Avery]

Different players. Gholston was much more explosive and athetic than Bailey. I thought Gholston would do better in the league but he's already a dud. Bailey won't be any better until he learns that he can't bullrush past the tackles in the NFL. That's literally all he can do; no swim moves or hooks, straight bull rushes.

He'll be a Raider no doubt.

 

[realtick]

He'll be a Raider no doubt.

Lol, classic.

That does appear to be his fate though.

 

[Woods]

Heading into the 2010 season I heard a lot of the hype behind Miami Hurricane DL Allen Bailey. I watched a couple of his games and some of his highlight clips from AloAloysius (shows all the snaps, good or bad) on YouTube.

I was left somewhat impressed (not overly) by Bailey's athleticism, but he seemed to struggle getting consistant pressure and diagnosing plays, often failing to locate the ball and being suckered for screens. Basically, not displaying the type of instincts you would want in a lineman.

Now, I'm hearing this guy looked like Adonis at the weigh-ins at the Senior Bowl after dropping some weight.

I can't help but think of the similiarities with Jet's bust, Vernon Gholston.

What's your impression of him?

Not sure if it's accurate, but I've been reading on various sites that one of the big differences between C Jordan and Bailey is that with the pass rush, Bailey basically has only one move. If you shut that done, he can't get off blocks.

Versus C Jordan, who has multiple moves and uses his hands particularly well (compared to Bailey).

 

[UnoDallas]

Dontay Moch, DE/OLB, Nevada

Moch had a lot of hype entering the season with his elite speed and athleticism, but he really has no clue how to play football, and on tape he reminded me of Vernon Gholston. He has absolutely no instincts and is very soft. He is the definition of a workout warrior. I'm not sold on him as an 3-4 rush linebacker either because he his instincts really hurt him and all he can do is use his first step and speed rush.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

He'll be a raider as previously said.

 

[TheFinisher]

Gholston was a much better player in college than Bailey.

 

[rash]

He'll be a raider as previously said.

Yup!

They might trade up for him

 

[realtick]

Yup!

They might trade up for him

Maybe we can work out a deal with them.

 

[Randy White]

is that Bailey is not a " dawg ", like Gholston is. For all intended purposes, Gholston got his money and left the passion on the floor. I was just reading about that at the BSPN baseball site. It's a column that everyone in here should read because even though it's about baseball prospects, it really applies to all major sports' prospects.

Like it's been said many times before, you can measure just about everything except will, but even so, willingness and work is not enough at time . Prospects ( the ones that eventually succeed ) usually stay " hungry " no matter the environment around them. They, essentially, " grow up " and use competition as their fuel. Others, like everyone should know by now, they just do enough to get that contract that sets them up for life and then just try to coast the rest of the way. Those are very hard to spot, no matter the questions and/or psychological tests they go through.

Bailey is tough to figure out. He's been known to " slack off " a little. That could be a red flag OR it could just be the perception that because of his impressive physique, he should be doing more than he is, which is unfair.

I happen to belive that the system he played under ( Randy Shannon's defense ) was a detriment to his skills. I think that if he ends up in a system that's aggressive and turns him loose, he could the next Bruce Smith.

 

[realtick]

is that Bailey is not a " dawg ", like Gholston is. For all intended purposes, Gholston got his money and left the passion on the floor. I was just reading about that at the BSPN baseball site. It's a column that everyone in here should read because even though it's about baseball prospects, it really applies to all major sports' prospects.

Like it's been said many times before, you can measure just about everything except will, but even so, willingness and work is not enough at time . Prospects ( the ones that eventually succeed ) usually stay " hungry " no matter the environment around them. They, essentially, " grow up " and use competition as their fuel. Others, like everyone should know by now, they just do enough to get that contract that sets them up for life and then just try to coast the rest of the way. Those are very hard to spot, no matter the questions and/or psychological tests they go through.

Bailey is tough to figure out. He's been known to " slack off " a little. That could be a red flag OR it could just be the perception that because of his impressive physique, he should be doing more than he is, which is unfair.

I happen to belive that the system he played under ( Randy Shannon's defense ) was a detriment to his skills. I think that if he ends up in a system that's aggressive and turns him loose, he could the next Bruce Smith.

It's completely off-base to blame Gholston's failure on a "lack of heart or passion." Gholston simply was never an instinctive football player. Gholston said himself that growing up he never even watched football. By his own admission, he didn't know football until his sophomore year in high school.

Gholston said he became interested in body-building before he even became a teenager. He's been working on his body his whole life, so I hardly doubt there is a question regarding his heart or desire.

The kid simply isn't a good professional football player.

 

[Randy White]

Gholston said he became interested in body-building before he even became a teenager. He's been working on his body his whole life, so I hardly doubt there is a question regarding his heart or desire..

That's exactly why it's fair to question his heart and desire. He simply does not have it for football. That doesn't make him a bad person, but it does make him a waste of a pick and time. I called him a " dawg " because he took the money despite knowing fully well that it wasn't his passion. Don't get me wrong, I would have done the exact same thing if I were in his position, but that still doesn't remove his actions.

 

[28 Joker]

I like this guy. He was impressive, but I don't think he fits Dallas base scheme. I saw him really challenge Sherrod on the right side, and Sherrod won and stoned him. Bailey was really bringing heat this week.

I'll tell you another guy who could be a real good player, imo, is Rodney Hudson. I'd like him at center. He's in the Mark Stepnoski mold as far size and being about leverage and technique. I really like him, but does Dallas? He's not Gurode. Hudson may not be a 300 pound guy, but he's strong and showed that he can anchor. The question would be going against big 34 NTs, I guess. Some team is going to take him and be very happy at guard or center, I think. The Commanders, Titans...Teams like that are going to be after him for sure. He will not last long in round 2. He made him some money this week. He's a strong, athletic player.

 

[realtick]

That's exactly why it's fair to question his heart and desire. He simply does not have it for football. That doesn't make him a bad person, but it does make him a waste of a pick and time. I called him a " dawg " because he took the money despite knowing fully well that it wasn't his passion. Don't get me wrong, I would have done the exact same thing if I were in his position, but that still doesn't remove his actions.

You're running off on a major assumption: that you know Gholston's heart or passion for the game.

Unless there is some proof in the form of a quote from Gholston himself, all of that is pure conjecture and guessing.

It's also sketchy to draw some connection between a passion for working out (which he talked about in reference to his youth, not presently) and his poor NFL career.

Every single player in NFL has an interest outside of football. It would just as ludicrous to blame Marcus Spears poor play (hypotheticially) on the field on his love for fishing.

Gholston's biggest failure is that he just isn't/wasn't a good football player.

The Jets have tried him at DE and OLB and they found out he wasn't strong/skilled enough at 260 lb to hold up at the POA and he also wasn't agile enough to drop back in coverage.

It's perfectly possible for a player to bad without cause from alterior motives.