Is Bledsoe a Hall Of Famer?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Now it seems you're just playing semantics. Any objective person that reads your post in this thread on page 12 in it's entrety (I only quoted a small part) will see the implication is clearly there. How else are we supposed to interpret, "I do believe that efficiantsy is pretty important. Aikman was the poster boy of this. Bledsoe, well, I don't see it."


Everyone's entitled to an opinion. I wonder how many HOF voters consider TD:TO ratios (as opposed to TD:INT ratios). Even Elway's #s (333:363) look unimpressive when viewed in this light. Personally, I don't put as much stock as you do in this standard.


At this point we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Of course you have to look at the entire picture when discussing the Hall (which is probably why I said he is no lock for the HOF in the first message I posted in this thread), but efficiency is one of the most important factors to consider in regard to the QB position (especially when you're talking about a player most already recognize as a "volume QB" in the first palce), IMHO.

You specifically used my handle when commenting on how you couldn't see how I could possibly suggest Drew was an efficient QB. I was responding directly to that. I stand by what I said. Strictly in terms of efficiency, Bledsoe has performed at a HOF level.

Well, your right. If the basis for his consideration is his efficiency, then it would stand to reason that this is what would be considered primarily. Semantics be damned. Here is the entire post I made, to Kangaroo, you mention earlier.

"Hey Roo,

I agree. Bledsoe is not a HOF QB, at this time. I do not believe that QB rating is the end all/be all where QBs are concerned. However, I do believe that efficiantsy is pretty important. Aikman was the poster boy of this. Bledsoe, well, I don't see it. If you look at Bledsoe, two stats jump out at me that are not included in QB rating scores. One is sacks taken. The other is fumbles. Sacks can not be accuratly factored in because it's always a question of where the responsability lies. Is it the OL not blocking well? Is it the backs not picking up the blitz? Or, is it the QB not getting rid of the ball. I think it's probably a combination but I will say that in watching Bledsoe for these many years, I think you have to say that he is responsible for many of the sacks he has taken. For the record, he has been sacked 406 times, to date. That's roughly 33 or 34 sacks a season. He has also fumbled 105 times in his career. Neither of these two statistics suggest efficiant, to me.

I was surprised to see Alpha suggest that this player was efficiant to the point of Hall consideration. I just didn't see that."

Now where in this post do I see what you suggest, specifically, sacks, fumbles and his status for HOF qualification based on the premise you yourself set. Even now, his efficency doesn't get it done and you've stated as much yourself.

I would also correct you on what I eluded to, from you specifically. I said I was surprised to see you suggest that his efficency was efficent, to the point of HOF consideration. I still don't agree with you on this. I acknowledge the fact that a big factor in our view of this is Sacks and TOs as opposed to just INTs.

For the record, when I calculated TOs, I did not use fumbles + INTs equals total TOs. I used INTs + actual lost Fumbles. I noticed in your 363 number for Elway, you use his total fumbles number. If we do the same with Bledsoe, his number becomes 230/286. As you can see, this does not help your case. I could not find how many fumbles were actually lost, as opposed to total fumbles for Elway. Perhaps you have this. If so, I would be interested in seeing the comparison then.

Lastly, efficency is certainly HOF criteria but it should not be all. IMO, comparing Bledsoe's efficency to other HOF QBs is somewhat miss leading IMO. As I said earlier, the others did more then just this. Bledsoe has yet to define himself, IMO. I know you say you only want to compare efficency, where Elway is concerned but you simply can't. Elway's selection consisted of way more. I never felt as if Elway was all that efficiant a QB. His induction was based on much more. As example, I give you the following.

Career highlights
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-- The NFL's all-time winningest quarterback (148-82-1)

-- Ranks second only all-time to Dan Marino in passing yardage, attempts, completions and 3,000-yard seasons

-- Ranks third all-time in touchdown passes

-- Will start his fifth Super Bowl, a record for quarterbacks, and is 5-1 in AFC championship games

-- Is the only player to surpass 50,000 passing yards and 3,000 rushing yards

-- Set NFL record by throwing for over 3,000 yards and rushing for more than 200 yards in seven straight seasons, three more than anyone else, and has done it 10 times in his career

-- All-time leader with 46 game-winning or game-tying drives in the fourth quarter


Year-by-Year highlights
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1983 -- Started 10 games and finished 17th in the AFC in passing.

1984 -- Led the Broncos to a 12-2 record in 14 starts and finished third on the team in rushing.

1985 -- Set team record in attempts, completions and passing yards and finished second in the league in completions and yards.

1986 -- Led Broncos to AFC Championship and earned first Pro Bowl berth. Directs game-tying 15-play, 98-yard drive in final minutes of regulation as Denver defeats Cleveland, 23-20, in overtime in AFC Championship Game. Threw for 304 yards and one touchdown and ran for another score in Super Bowl loss to New York Giants.

1987 -- Became first AFC quarterback since Pittsburgh's Terry Bradshaw (1978-79) to lead his team to consecutive conference championships. Records four 300-yard games, finished second on the team in rushing and leads all AFC quarterbacks in rushing for the fourth straight season. Received numerous honors, including Pro Bowl starter. Became first quarterback in Super Bowl history to catch a pass in blowout loss to Washington.

1988 -- Voted the team's most valuable offensive player for the fourth consecutive season despite a series of nagging injuries throughout the season.

1989 -- Led Denver to its third AFC Championship, and third Super Bowl loss, in four years. Earned his third Pro Bowl invitation. Threw for 385 yards and three touchdowns in the AFC Championship Game against Cleveland. Scored Denver's only touchdown in a 55-10 Super Bowl loss to San Francisco on a three-yard run.

1990 -- Established new career-high in completion percentage despite Denver's disappointing 5-11 campaign.

1991 -- Voted to his fourth career Pro Bowl. Earned AFC Offensive Player of the Week twice. Caught a 24-yard TD pass from Steve Sewell to go with two rushing TD's and a pair of TD passes against Cincinnati in the season-opener. Rallied the Broncos to a come-from-behind 26-24 victory over Houston in an AFC Divisional Playoff game on January 4.

1992 -- Earned two AFC Player of the Week awards. Threw two TD passes in the final two minutes to defeat the Kansas City Chiefs on October 4. Threw his longest career TD pass, an 80-yarder to Arthur Marshall against the Jets on November 11.

1993 -- Named AFC Most Valuable Player and starting quarterback in the Pro Bowl. Led the league in pass attempts, completions and completions percentage. Led AFC in yardage with first career 4,000-yard season. Also led conference in TD passes and QB rating.

1994 -- Earned his sixth Pro Bowl berth and went over the 40,000-yard mark in career total offense. Was named AFC Player of the Week for the 11th time.

1995 -- Led the AFC in passing yards and became second player in league history to throw for 3,000 yards in 10 seasons. Became the seventh player in league history to reach 40,000 career passing yards. Surpassed Dan Fouts for third place on the all-time list in career total offense. Earned AFC Player of the Week honors twice. Surpassed Bronco defensive back Bill Thompson for most career starts in franchise history.

1996 -- Named AFC Most Valuable Player and moved into first place on list of career victories by a starting quarterback. Became the third player in league history to pass for 45,000 yards. Established club record for most games played. Joined Fran Tarkenton as the only other player to pass for 40,000 yards and rush for 3,000 in a career. Surpassed Randall Cunningham for all-time rushing attempts by a quarterback. Became the winningest starting quarterback in league history.

1997 -- Led the Broncos to their fifth Super Bowl appearance and first championship with a 31-24 victory over Green Bay in Super Bowl XXXII. Set a franchise record with 27 TD passes and was selected to start the Pro Bowl for a fifth time. Eclipsed the 50,000-yard mark in total offense and moved into second place on the all-time list. Became the oldest player to score a touchdown in a Super Bowl on a one-yard run.

1998 -- Led the Broncos to their AFC record sixth Super Bowl appearance and will start at quarterback for an NFL record fifth time on Super Sunday. Became second player to reach 50,000 yards passing and third quarterback to throw 300 career TD passes. Had his 36th-career 300-yard passing day in the season finale. Became second player in league history to throw for 50,000 yards. Helped Denver to 13-0 start, tying for second-best in league history. Engineered his 46th career game-winning or game-tying fourth quarter TD drive against Kansas City on December 6.

This is a resume of a HOF QB.

The comparison of Bledsoe and Elway, on efficency alone, as criteria is incomplete. This is why I feel it makes this point invalid.