Is Garrett running Air Coryell or not?

[Wood]

In the book Blood, Sweat and Chalk - Garrett says that if you brought Don Coryell to Dallas and handed him play book and without him watching a single practice...Don would recognize most of Dallas plays. Air Coryell is a timing based system of getting the ball out as quick as possible (usually to predetermined spot). Aikman/Irvin made Bang 8 famous under Norv who ran same system (Often Aikman would release ball before Irvin had even made his cut). Now yesterday...I am listening to Roy Williams interview and he goes on about how transition from Detroit to Dallas was difficult because in Detroit it was timing based (under Martz - who runs alot of Air Coryell system and made it almost unstoppable with Rams superbowl years). He then goes onto to say Garrett system is more of: "run a route and see what happens". That doesnt sound timing based as at. So either Roy is correct and Garrett no longer run Air Coryell...or there is serious disconnect between what Roy Williams thinks the system is based on.

 

[joseephuss]

Maybe Garrett runs a timing based passing system, but not for Roy. Everyone else runs a timing route, but Roy just runs and sees what happens. Kind of like Alvin Harper.

 

[NextGenBoys]

In the book Blood, Sweat and Chalk - Garrett says that if you brought Don Coryell to Dallas and handed him play book and without him watching a single practice...Don would recognize most of Dallas plays. Air Coryell is a timing based system of getting the ball out as quick as possible (usually to predetermined spot). Aikman/Irvin made Bang 8 famous under Norv who ran same system (Often Aikman would release ball before Irvin had even made his cut). Now yesterday...I am listening to Roy Williams interview and he goes on about how transition from Detroit to Dallas was difficult because in Detroit it was timing based (under Martz - who runs alot of Air Coryell system and made it almost unstoppable with Rams superbowl years). He then goes onto to say Garrett system is more of: "run a route and see what happens". That doesnt sound timing based as at. So either Roy is correct and Garrett no longer run Air Coryell...or there is serious disconnect between what Roy Williams thinks the system is based on.

IMO he's saying that because for HIM, it IS run a route and see what happens since he has no timing with Romo due to his poor route running.

And each coach has their own style. Garrett is a "disciple" of Coryell I guess, but he's not running the same offense, just his own version.

 

[CF74]

It sounds like RW is on a different page then...

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Isn't every NFL offense timing-based at this point, regardless of whether a team's particular philosophy is rooted in Walsh's principles or Coryell's principles?

 

[NextGenBoys]

Isn't every NFL offense timing-based at this point, regardless of whether a team's particular philosophy is rooted in Walsh's principles or Coryell's principles?

Pretty much yes. It's just to what degree.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I could be wrong, but I get the idea that Garrett uses more option routes and other wrinkles than Coryell did. To me, Norv's offense is more the pure Air Coryell system. And his offense doesn't look that much like Garrett's.

But I'm sure Coryell would recognize the playbook just because of the similar numbering system for routes and those things.

 

[Kangaroo]

In the book Blood, Sweat and Chalk - Garrett says that if you brought Don Coryell to Dallas and handed him play book and without him watching a single practice...Don would recognize most of Dallas plays. Air Coryell is a timing based system of getting the ball out as quick as possible (usually to predetermined spot). Aikman/Irvin made Bang 8 famous under Norv who ran same system (Often Aikman would release ball before Irvin had even made his cut). Now yesterday...I am listening to Roy Williams interview and he goes on about how transition from Detroit to Dallas was difficult because in Detroit it was timing based (under Martz - who runs alot of Air Coryell system and made it almost unstoppable with Rams superbowl years). He then goes onto to say Garrett system is more of: "run a route and see what happens". That doesnt sound timing based as at. So either Roy is correct and Garrett no longer run Air Coryell...or there is serious disconnect between what Roy Williams thinks the system is based on.

You realize Garret spent the Majority of his career in Dallas where he practiced the offense under Norv Turner and a bit under Ernie Zampesee. Erne came directly from Coryell and Norv is a Ernie decedent.

If you look at a lot of the Cowboys route they are very vertical in nature and if you ever notice we rarely run a lot of short passes unless they are a dump off to a RB

So his statements sound about spot on

 

[laythewood28]

I dont see it as a timing offense. I see Romo holding the ball a little longer letting his receiver get open to make it an easier throw while with Aikman he threw it even if the receiver was open or not. Romo's passing windows seem to be larger.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Pretty much yes. It's just to what degree.

It seems to me that the only major difference between the systems of Coryell and Walsh was depth of routes.

Walsh favored shorter passes and incorporated the fullback and tight end to a greater degree than Coryell.

 

[CowboyMike]

Mike Martz runs a big variation of Coryell. Martz wants his quarterbacks to throw to a spot that is timing based and expects the receiver to be there.

Garrett probably has more of a give in the system because it's not a spot that the quarterback is throwing to, it's a receiver. It's more of a throw it to the guy that gets open kind of thing. Yes there is a timing thing with the receivers, but I'm pretty sure it's only part of the system that we run.

Garrett probably uses the same system as Coryell, in terms of language and designations, but he has obviously put his own fingerprint and wrinkles into everything. Remember he wasn't just under Norv and Ernie here. He spent a long time up with the Giants with Sean Payton and Jim Fassell, one year with Jon Gruden in Tampa, and Nick Saban in Miami, and Tony Sparano his first year here. Not to mention his father, who was a pretty good coach himself back in the day. He's taken ideas from everywhere he's been.

 

[laythewood28]

Mike Martz runs a big variation of Coryell. Martz wants his quarterbacks to throw to a spot that is timing based and expects the receiver to be there.

Garrett probably has more of a give in the system because it's not a spot that the quarterback is throwing to, it's a receiver. It's more of a throw it to the guy that gets open kind of thing. Yes there is a timing thing with the receivers, but I'm pretty sure it's only part of the system that we run.

pretty spot on.

 

[CowboyMike]

pretty spot on.

Thanks. Ha, call it "Air Garrett, brought to you by Coryell"

 

[joseephuss]

It seems to me that the only major difference between the systems of Coryell and Walsh was depth of routes.

Walsh favored shorter passes and incorporated the fullback and tight end to a greater degree than Coryell.

That would be news to Kellen Winslow. He was one of the main targets in Coryell's system. The tight ends under Walsh were not targeted near as much as Winslow.

I remember one of the complaints about Paul Hackett when he came to Dallas as the offensive coordinator was that the Cowboys threw the ball less to the tight end than in the past. Hackett worked under Walsh before joining the Cowboys.

 

[dallasfaniac]

run a route and see what happens

It's still a timing based offense, the QB and WR just adjust the route based upon how the defense responds is all. You just hope the they both came to the same conclusion otherwise it's probably a pick.

 

[the truth of it all]

We're currently running an Air-ill timed screen , Offense under Garrett. Not the same definitely.

 

[Wood]

It seems to me that the only major difference between the systems of Coryell and Walsh was depth of routes.

Walsh favored shorter passes and incorporated the fullback and tight end to a greater degree than Coryell.

the major different between Coryell offense and Walsh offense is....Coryell attacks vertically....were Walsh attacks horizontally (sideline to sideline)....were Rice would run drag routs 7 yards deep. The are both based on getting ball out quick.

 

[Wood]

Mike Martz runs a big variation of Coryell. Martz wants his quarterbacks to throw to a spot that is timing based and expects the receiver to be there.

Garrett probably has more of a give in the system because it's not a spot that the quarterback is throwing to, it's a receiver. It's more of a throw it to the guy that gets open kind of thing. Yes there is a timing thing with the receivers, but I'm pretty sure it's only part of the system that we run.

Garrett probably uses the same system as Coryell, in terms of language and designations, but he has obviously put his own fingerprint and wrinkles into everything. Remember he wasn't just under Norv and Ernie here. He spent a long time up with the Giants with Sean Payton and Jim Fassell, one year with Jon Gruden in Tampa, and Nick Saban in Miami, and Tony Sparano his first year here. Not to mention his father, who was a pretty good coach himself back in the day. He's taken ideas from everywhere he's been.

I guess i was just suprised Roy made it sound like two very unsimilar style offense...but Martz played at San Diego Mesa while Coryell was running Air Coryell at San Diego State - after Martz superbowl he had picture taken with Don Coryell because Martz scheme was basically from Don system. And I am willing to bet....dallas makes that trade with Detroit because the two offenses were similar to Air Coryell (with some variations) and anticipated a seemless conversion for Roy Williams.

 

[T-RO]

Maybe Garrett runs a timing based passing system, but not for Roy. Everyone else runs a timing route, but Roy just runs and sees what happens. Kind of like Alvin Harper.

Some truth to that...and you can understand why it's not worked out very well with Roy for that reason.

In that same vein...this is my biggest concern about Bryant...esp. with his absence.

 

[Beast_from_East]

It sounds like RW is on a different page then...

Roy is not on a different page than Romo, he is on a complete other book.:laugh2: