Is it out of the question that Escobar turns into a poor man's Gronk?

[perrykemp]

I think Escobar is capable of matching anything Gronk can do play for play. It's all about the chemistry he has with his QB.

It's like saying Alexander Wright was capable of matching anything Jerry Rice could ever do play for play because he was taller, faster, and heavier than Rice.

 

[Nightman]

I just fell down laughing.

The "it " factor that makes Gronk the Gronk is not present in Escobar.

Escobar is a solid NFL TE that probably could thrive as a starter, but he is no Gronk.

 

[plymkr]

Listen, I understand the sentiment, it's only natural, however, there is no way your statement can really be rationalized at this point in Witten/Gronk's career.

I could go into all the reasons why, however, out of my outmost respect for Witten I'll remain silent.[/quot

I know I'm a bit of a Homer towards Witten, I'll admit that, but even in this season, Gronk will put up numbers, score a ton of TD's and get the highlights. Witten is going to be consistent, moving the chains, being Romo's security blanket.

I guess the best way I can summarize my feelings about Gronk compared to Witten is Witten is a HOFer (or should be), Gronk isn't yet.Gronk is the rage of the NFL right now but can he bring it for a whole career like Witten has. This reminds me of the 98-99 seasons comparisons between Randy Moss and Michael Irvin. Irvin was coming to an end to his HOF career but Moss was the rage of the NFL. Same with Emmitt Smith and Terrel Davis. Emmitt was slowing down and Davis was putting up huge numbers. I feel like Gronk vs Witten is in the same category as of right now. History showed that Moss was no Irvin, Davis was no Emmitt. I believe that when it's all said and done history will show Gronk is no Witten. I don't know if that helps people see my point or not.

Like I said in an earlier post. If I have to choose one player to make a play to win the super bowl I would take Gronk cuz of matchup with anyone in the league. If I have to choose one of the two to start a franchise with I take Witten cuz of consistency, leadership, and obviously his play on the field that has spanned a long career. And he's still going strong.

 

[Hoofbite]

Escobar plays more like gates or gonzales.

Gonzo was far more physical.

 

[Spectre]

Those two names can not occupy the same sentence. Ever.
Escobar can not be mentioned in the same sentence. As Gates or Gonzalez, either.
Or Jimmy Graham. Or Jason Witten.

 

[KJJ]

So I take you don't want 90% of this team because most can be a poor man's version somebody.

That's the problem with most FANS they see a poor man's version of a great player with most of the players on the roster and this thread is proof of that. Only on a Cowboys board would anyone have visions of Escobar becoming a poor man's Gronk. When Gronk is healthy it can be argued that he's better than Jason Witten ever was. He's had 2 seasons where he's put up more yards than Witten ever has and he scores TD's at a much higher rate than Witten.

Despite all the games he's missed with injuries he's scored the same number of TD's as Witten in only 6 seasons. If Gronk is better than Witten ever was it's a real stretch for anyone to think Escobar who isn't nearly as physical a player as Gronk could be a poor man's version of him. Don't get me wrong I think Escobar can be a productive TE if given the opportunity to start but anyone trying to make any comparisons between him and Gronk is somewhat laughable to be honest. Other than their size I don't see any other similarities.

 

[KJJ]

Never said he was as strong.
Amber said Gronk was taller and bigger which is not true they are essentially the same size.

Never said you did just pointing it out. Their size is similar but Gronk is a much more physical player. To judge Escobar fairly we need to see more of him in the passing game he hasn't had enough of an opportunity to really know what his potential might be. I wasn't happy with his selection on draft day but it had nothing to do with him as a player it was the position the Cowboys picked that pissed me off.

 

[xwalker]

X what's is Swaims measurable and combine numbers

Rob Gronkowski
40 Yrd Dash: 4.68
Vertical Jump: 33 1/2
Broad Jump: 09'11"


Geoff Swaim
40 Yrd Dash: 4.71
Vertical Jump: 35 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'04"


It's actually much better when you consider that Swaim thought it was a walk-thru and didn't realize they were actually timing him.

 

[xwalker]

Really you think he is that good an athlete? I know there must be more than what I personally have seen in the preseason, I would not of been offended or surprised if he had not made the cut to 53 considering he is the fourth TE. Glad to hear some good things about him maybe he can contribute as a rook.

Gronk wears Chuck Norris pajamas. Chuck Norris wears Geoff Swaim pajamas.

 

[big dog cowboy]

When Gronk is healthy it can be argued that he's better than Jason Witten ever was. He's had 2 seasons where he's put up more yards than Witten ever has and he scores TD's at a much higher rate than Witten.

Of course he scores TD's at a higher rate than JWit does. They are a passing team and specifically target him in the red zone. Comparing TD receptions between those 2 players is an awful was to compare them.

 

[Redball Express]

To hope that G. Escobar turns into a poor mans Gronk

TE has been a black hole for us.

As far as backup has been concerned.

I think Escobar is going to be much more effective this year but we have to be willing to sit Witten some to get him out there.

He is a pass receiver..not a blocker.

You would have to think that with our OL they should be able to run the ball without Witten being in

Which means additionally..if Escobar is at TE...

Romo has another valuable target to get the ball to.

Which also translated to the RB having to block more and stay home to protect Romo.

Which to me means DMac is the better blocker and would be part of the package when Escobar is out there.

Which also adds DMac as the back who can take the safety valve throws when needed.

All of those options seems in our favor if you ask me.

It's up to Linehan to do it.

Let's hope he can do it without having to do it forcibly to where the defense is dictating when it will work or not.

Offensively WE have to dictate the flow not the other way around.

 

[KJJ]

Of course he scores TD's at a higher rate than JWit does. They are a passing team and specifically target him in the red zone. Comparing TD receptions between those 2 players is an awful was to compare them.

The Cowboys were a pass happy team from 06 to 2013 and Witten has been Romo's security blanket through all those years. In 12 seasons Witten has never had a double digit TD season despite catching a ton of balls. In 2012 he caught 110 passes but only scored 3 TD's. The reason Witten doesn't catch many TD's and isn't targeted much in the redzone is because he's not athletic and never leaves the ground to catch a football. I can't recall one catch in Witten's career where he jumped in the air and caught a football and had to toe tap his feet in bounds. Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzalez scored a bunch of TD's in their career because they're both athletic and could high point a football. They would jump in the air and win a battle for the football while keeping their feet in bounds.

Witten has been a great TE but you never see him make a great athletic catch while leaving the ground. It's almost like he's nailed to the turf. He's great at finding seams and soft spots and simply turns around and makes the catch. In 4 of Gronks 6 seasons he's had double digit TD's because he's athletic and wins battles for the football he scored 17 TD's in 2011. Like with Gonzalez and Gates he goes up after the football and makes great athletic catches. On Thursday night he went up in the air after the ball in the back of the end zone and not only caught it but kept both feet in bounds. You never see Jason Witten make a play like that. Witten has been a great player for the Cowboys and will be inducted into the HOF but his lack of athletic ability has been a flaw that's kept him from being targeted in the redzone/endzone.

 

[jobberone]

The "it " factor that makes Gronk the Gronk is not present in Escobar.

Escobar is a solid NFL TE that probably could thrive as a starter, but he is no Gronk.

Not yet for sure. Maybe never. He's not as fast but I think he can become as successful.

 

[jobberone]

The Cowboys were a pass happy team from 06 to 2013 and Witten has been Romo's security blanket through all those years. In 12 seasons Witten has never had a double digit TD season despite catching a ton of balls. In 2012 he caught 110 passes but only scored 3 TD's. The reason Witten doesn't catch many TD's and isn't targeted much in the redzone is because he's not athletic and never leaves the ground to catch a football. I can't recall one catch in Witten's career where he jumped in the air and caught a football and had to toe tap his feet in bounds. Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzales scored a bunch of TD's in their career because they're both athletic and could high point a football. They would jump in the air and win a battle for the football while keeping their feet in bounds.

Witten has been a great TE but you never see him make a great athletic catch while leaving the ground. It's almost like he's nailed to the turf. He's great at finding seams and soft spots and simply turns around and makes the catch. In 4 of Gronks 6 seasons he's had double digit TD's because he's athletic and wins battles for the football he scored 17 TD's in 2011. Like with Gonzales and Gates he goes up after the football and makes great athletic catches. On Thursday night he went up in the air after the ball in the back of the end zone and not only caught it but kept both feet in bounds. You never see Jason Witten make a play like that. Witten has been a great player for the Cowboys and will be inducted into the HOF but his lack of athletic ability has been a flaw that's kept him from being targeted in the redzone/endzone.

I agree with a fair amt of what you said. How many times was Witten specifically the first read in the RZ vs Gronk? How many times was he targeted in the RZ compared to Gronk? You'd have to look at the comparable stats particularly inside the RZ.

But he's definitely not the Same Kind of athlete Gronk is. He does have attributes that shine more brightly than Gronk.

 

[KJJ]

I agree with a fair amt of what you said. How many times was Witten specifically the first read in the RZ vs Gronk? How many times was he targeted in the RZ compared to Gronk? You'd have to look at the comparable stats particularly inside the RZ.

But he's definitely not the Same Kind of athlete Gronk is. He does have attributes that shine more brightly than Gronk.

It's Witten's lack of athletic ability being able to go after the football and win battles that keeps him from being targeted like Gronk, Gates and Gonzalez in the redzone/endzone. The reason Dez scores so many TD's and gets targeted as much as he does is due to his great athletic ability. He's able to go up, high point the ball and win the battle. It's tight in the redzone/endzone and Witten works better in space where he's able to find a soft spot, turn around and snatch the ball with both hands.

 

[Insomniac]

I agree with a fair amt of what you said. How many times was Witten specifically the first read in the RZ vs Gronk? How many times was he targeted in the RZ compared to Gronk? You'd have to look at the comparable stats particularly inside the RZ.

But he's definitely not the Same Kind of athlete Gronk is. He does have attributes that shine more brightly than Gronk.

From 2003 to 2014, Dallas Cowboys vs. any team, in the regular season, play type is pass, play started in red zone, play featured Jason Witten[X]
http://tinyurl.com/qdr7y52
138 plays, 41 TDs, 53 1st Downs, 9 Interceptions, 1 fumble, Avg Yds gained 4.01

Rob Gronkowski
From 2010 to 2014, New England Patriots vs. any team, in the regular season, play type is pass, play started in red zone, play featured Rob Gronkowski[X]
http://tinyurl.com/p8mbk5m
84 plays, 41 TDs, 47 1st Downs, 3 INTs, 1 fumble, Avg Yds gained 6.42

Note 1st downs stat includes TDs

Other Misc stats (not Red Zone)
Targets per game Witten 7.0 Gronkowski 7.1
Receptions per game Witten 4.9 Gronkowski 4.7
Yds per Reception Witten 11.1 Gronkowski 14.3
Avg YAC Witten 4.0 Gronkowski 6.1

Witten has about 3 times as many games played so it's clear that the Cowboys don't go to him in the end zone as much as the Patriots go to Gronkowski. OTOH he hasn't been as effective in the red zone when they did, even though teams concentrate on Gronkowski more. (well, teams other than the Steelers do anyway)

 

[Nightman]

TE has been a black hole for us.

As far as backup has been concerned.

I think Escobar is going to be much more effective this year but we have to be willing to sit Witten some to get him out there.

He is a pass receiver..not a blocker.

You would have to think that with our OL they should be able to run the ball without Witten being in

Which means additionally..if Escobar is at TE...

Romo has another valuable target to get the ball to.

Which also translated to the RB having to block more and stay home to protect Romo.

Which to me means DMac is the better blocker and would be part of the package when Escobar is out there.

Which also adds DMac as the back who can take the safety valve throws when needed.

All of those options seems in our favor if you ask me.

It's up to Linehan to do it.

Let's hope he can do it without having to do it forcibly to where the defense is dictating when it will work or not.

Offensively WE have to dictate the flow not the other way around.

When I think we could have Le'veon Bell, Eddie Lacy, Montee Ball or Christine Michael instead of Escobar....oh wait....nevermind.....

 

[dallasdave]

When I think we could have Le'veon Bell, Eddie Lacy, Montee Ball or Christine Michael instead of Escobar....oh wait....nevermind.....

 

[Primetime42]

Maybe we can draft Gronk's younger bro Glenn.

No more Gronks in Dallas, please.

 

[Redball Express]

When I think we could have Le'veon Bell, Eddie Lacy, Montee Ball or Christine Michael instead of Escobar....oh wait....nevermind.....

I agree.

But the think tank wasn't in place then.

Same thing about Bennett and Fascano before him.

So my point is just use the pick and at somepoint it all amounts to something for us.

Witten has been great but only another year or two for him..

same with Romo.