is it really that hard to evaluate offensive linemen?

[Stash]

One thing that's also a factor is the change in line coaches and therefore what the team is looking for from its' linemen.

Sparano and Parcells preferred more zone blocking which requires more agility and less power.

Houck's line prefers more drive blocking and therefore puts a bigger premium on strength and less on agility.

I think Holland's trade from Denver to Dallas clearly illustrates this point.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Well, we've done very well through Free Agency. I think one of the big problems we've had is that Jones and company have always preferred the big, huge O-Linemen. So when we got Parcells, he preferred the smaller, more mobile O-Linemen who have good technique. The draft picks we've hit on are Gurode and Flozell, both big guys that fit the Jones type of O-Linemen. The draft picks that have been busts like Jacob Rogers, Petermann, Marten, etc. have all been more Parcells type of guys.

It's not to say that Parcells' type is ineffective, but when you get a scouting staff that probably excels at scouting one type of O-Linemen and is being asked to scout a completely different type of O-Linemen, that could cause some issues to arise.






YAKUZA

 

[jobberone]

One thing that's also a factor is the change in line coaches and therefore what the team is looking for from its' linemen.

Sparano and Parcells preferred more zone blocking which requires more agility and less power.

Houck's line prefers more drive blocking and therefore puts a bigger premium on strength and less on agility.

I think Holland's trade from Denver to Dallas clearly illustrates this point.

I agree with a caveat. Neither way is right or wrong. We have had success with drive blocking and Denver has success with mobile athletes. But we have some big, strong guys who are pretty mobile, too. Bigg is a lot more athletic than some think. Kosier gets to the next level and outside well and even Gurode has his moments.

I'm hoping HH works for us as well as he once did.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

It is very hard to draft quality offensive lineman. That is why even average o-lineman get paid a small fortune in free agency.

I don't think it's true to that extent. Finding a quality LT is hard to do. But finding quality guards and centers isn't all that hard and finding a quality right tackle is of moderate difficulty.






YAKUZA

 

[VACowboy]

So, you want pile drivers?

Duke Robinson (G) - 6'5", 330 - Oklahoma
Herman Johnson (G) - 6'7", 351 - LSU
Phil Loadhol (T) - 6'8", 352 - Oklahoma
Andre Smith (T) - 6'5", 333 - Alabama

 

[jjktkk]

It's hard to draft pig guys who's dominance in college translates to dominance in the pros.

Desire plays a big part, but of course, the level of competition is much higher as well.

We're not putting together one of those agile, zone-blocking schemes like Denver has.

Ever since Jerrah bought this team our MO has been overpowering guys at the point of attack. When it works, we have the most prolific offense in football.

I don't see this method changing anytime soon. Patience will be key.

Oh, and we're gonna need ro re-sign Columbo for sure now.

Its extremly difficult to evaluate OL. A great example is the guy you just mentioned in your thread, Columbo. A former 1st round pick by Chicago. He was considered a bust, now look at em. A tough, mauler, who has solidified our O-line. Columbo is a perfect emample on how hard it is to evaulate offensive lineman.

 

[burmafrd]

Colombo was a starter when he was injured and was considered to be doing pretty well. He was NOT a bust. Chicago just gave up on him too soon. BP spotted him and resurrected him.

 

[Temo]

Colombo was a starter when he was injured and was considered to be doing pretty well. He was NOT a bust. Chicago just gave up on him too soon. BP spotted him and resurrected him.

The biggest thing about Columbo is they let him heal up. A lot of football players play through injuries, and that's what the bears were doing with Columbo. They just kept trotting him out there at 50% and he couldn't stay healthy for any period of time, so they cut him.

The Cowboys signed him and instead of putting him out there, they sidelined him for a year and let him heal up and get conditioned. Just a good job at spotting a market inefficiency by the Parcells regime.

 

[jobberone]

The biggest thing about Columbo is they let him heal up. A lot of football players play through injuries, and that's what the bears were doing with Columbo. They just kept trotting him out there at 50% and he couldn't stay healthy for any period of time, so they cut him.

The Cowboys signed him and instead of putting him out there, they sidelined him for a year and let him heal up and get conditioned. Just a good job at spotting a market inefficiency by the Parcells regime.

Yet Dallas and for that matter, Parcells, don't get credit for Colombo as they should.

It all gets bundled up with Dallas gets riffraff and puts poor characters on the field.

I'm very glad to see Colombo getting more and more credit. And I'm especially glad for people to see his nearly friendly mean streak. Hope they get another one just like 'em.

 

[AbeBeta]

some guys really need more time to develop -- look at Gurode. It looked like he was gone a few years ago. Now he is one of the best C in the league.

We may have missed on some guys but we haven't spent a single 1st rounder and honestly, the injuries that our 2nd round guys (Johnson and Rogers) suffered kinda screwed us and had little to do with talent evaluation.

 

[Temo]

some guys really need more time to develop -- look at Gurode. It looked like he was gone a few years ago. Now he is one of the best C in the league.

We may have missed on some guys but we haven't spent a single 1st rounder and honestly, the injuries that our 2nd round guys (Johnson and Rogers) suffered kinda screwed us and had little to do with talent evaluation.

When WAS the last time the Cowboys spent a first rounder on an OL? I know we've never used one during the Jerry Jones era, I don't know if/when Landry ever did.

EDIT: 1981.

 

[sbark]

I have to agree that it looks mor and more likely that we will pony up for Colombo.

100% correct....but problem is that they are already thinking of moving "Bigg" outside left or right.....

then its Kosier back in and/or Holland move sides...hope he a mauler

 

[PhillyCowboysFan]

So, you want pile drivers? Phil Loadhol (T) - 6'8", 352 - Oklahoma

How do you pronounce his name? It looks like it sounds like a lineman...

 

[jterrell]

it just seems like we haven't hit on offensive line in forever. The last offensive line starter we drafted, we got in 2002...

And we've missed on on OL in 2nd, 3rd rounds many times...

What is it in the translation to the pros that makes it so difficult to evaluate their talent from college?

OL starters on good lines generally average 6 to 8 years in the league.

The two starters we have drafted, we selected in round 2. Gurode took a good while to develop and is now a Pro Bowl caliber guy. Flo was born with off the charts size and athleticism and still was ridiculously up and down until recently.

Leonard Davis was considered a bust before we signed him.
Kosier was a spare journeyman.

Columbo was a 1st round pick who came back from injury and is in like his 7th year.

Very seldom will good teams draft any OL and plug them in as rookies.
These guys take time to develop. And when you are drafting two per year then of course you will be cutting some.

 

[Woods]

With Houck on board, I think he will definitely be able to help with the scouting - esp. regarding the type of OL he wants to develop.

 

[AbeBeta]

When WAS the last time the Cowboys spent a first rounder on an OL? I know we've never used one during the Jerry Jones era, I don't know if/when Landry ever did.

EDIT: 1981.

When was the last time we had a good line comprised mostly of guys we drafted? Back in the 90s?

 

[Nexx]

When was the last time we had a good line comprised mostly of guys we drafted? Back in the 90s?

newton, tuinei and gogan were all free agents i believe. we drafted step, erik and larry.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

Go Cowboys---keep it rolling!