Is Kellen Moore the Real Problem on Offense?

[CowboyRoy]

The Cowboys had the number 1 scoring offense and were first in total yards. So what is the problem?

I think there were two problems witht he offense that can be blamed on Moore. 1. The play calling in the red zone. It seems like the closer the Cowboys got to the end zone, the sillier the play calling became. Those WR screens inside the 10 yard line always seemed to lose yards. Or he would run some other crazy time consuming play. 2. Penalties. How many potential scoring drives were killed by offensive penalties? How many possible TDs became FGs?

On the other hand, there are causes and effects. Maybe the plays called in the Red Zone took into account the run blocking was awful inside?

I still think this team needs to build a running game and a defense that can stuff the run and shut down drives. If they have to rely on Dak too much they will not be successful.

How do you get score inside the redzone if you cant run the ball and everyone knows it so they flood all the passing lanes?

 

[CowboyRoy]

Which is weird. He did that against Tampa and was shredding them. So I dont know why he stopped. Especially if his calf was injured you would think throwing the short stuff would take stress off that leg as opposed to heaving it downfield. I hate to say it because I cant picture him as the guy that buys into his own hype but maybe he did. And again. This is when coaches are supposed to calm you down and reign you back in. They didnt. Even that toss to Amari in the playoffs. That was a BEAUTIFUL throw. Consistency needs to be a focus, and taking the underneath stuff also.

Hard to do anything when your line cant block. And at least in the Tampa game they had the threat of the play action. And I doubt they were ignoring the run in the tampa game and flooding the passing lanes with nickel.

 

[RonnieT24]

So is it Dak or Moore that had trouble adjusting? I'm not bashing Dak here, usually I do, but I often wonder what was the problem. How injured was Dak, can Dak read non blitzing defenses or can Moore adjust his offense. I'm really hoping it's Moore that couldn't adjust and not a Dak problem. But I'm scared it's a combination of all 3, Dak's injuries, Dak reading defenses and Moore poorly adjusting to defenses after his offense was figured out. This will be an interesting year.

Yours are all legitimate concerns.. I think the injuries.. and I include the broken ankle and the shoulder/lat over the summer in that all added up and got in his head. When you're a young indestructible athlete you work your butt off to recover from your first catastrophic injury.. only to have a damn lat muscle hit you over the summer.. then you start the season off ballin out and a damn calf strain comes to bite you. I think that all added up to his playing more tentative after the calf injury. The other thing to keep in mind with injuries like the calf strain is that they are perfectly fine until they're not. Over the course of a game you feel a tweak here and there and you just don't know if you can let it rip. NFL football is hard at any position and the QB position is the hardest of them all. Anything in your kitchen can be your undoing. I think that tentative version of Dak struggled to execute what Moore was calling.. And maybe that version of Dak struggled to make a meal out of the dog-doo call Moore sent in.

I have always thought that most of the great plays we see from the Cowboys offense is the guys doing special things as opposed to Moore dialing up great calls. I mean if I close my eyes I can't think of more than a handful of plays where we had schemed a guy wide open or we have fooled the defense such that the RB is running 15 yards into the secondary before the defense can find him. I think Moore has been the beneficiary of great players.. Coop, Zeke, Dak, Pollard, Lamb et al have just done amazing things when matched up against chumps.. Then when facing defensive guys at or near their level or higher, and the onus shifts to Moore to scheme it up, the Cowboys fall short.

In conclusion I stop short of saying Moore is THE only problem for us.. but I do think he's the biggest problem.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Before I lay this on Moore, I would like to know why McC was not involved in the plan or calling and actually let that be known.

They have an OC with limited experience and a HC with much offensive experience and they are in an elimination game and they’re not working together?

I always thought if a team has a HC with specific experience that he would help mentor and teach his coordinator and help bring him along.

If MM is going to get involved, then it should be during the offseason with input and changes. Or making suggestions during the season.

Other then that you have to let the OC do his thing. What is MM supposed to do start calling plays for him?

 

[G2]

Until he can find ways to utilize the run game and not become one dimensional, he's not reached his potential.

 

[phildadon86]

Hard to do anything when your line cant block. And at least in the Tampa game they had the threat of the play action. And I doubt they were ignoring the run in the tampa game and flooding the passing lanes with nickel.

No no I know what you are saying.

There was times where they were rushing 3 and getting pressure. Kinda hard to throw anyone "open" when everyone is double covered because they don't fear your run game at all.

I've been watching football a long time and not jus the Cowboys. I'm big into fantasy so I watch every game I can. When a team becomes 1 dimensional they rarely win.

 

[phildadon86]

If MM is going to get involved, then it should be during the offseason with input and changes. Or making suggestions during the season.

Other then that you have to let the OC do his thing. What is MM supposed to do start calling plays for him?

When they hired MM I was very excited because I thought we would be changing to more of a WCO which is what Dak and this team are built for. Instead we stuck with the Garrett playbook with Moore's spin on it. Very disappointing. Imagine Pollard out there catching slants. Mouth watering. lol

What always boggled my mind is Dez Bryant. You have a guy on the team who is incredible after the catch. Yet. You have him running 32 GO ROUTES a game. Almost every time Dez caught a slant he was gone for 20 plus. Yet we wouldnt run it. Mind boggling.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Yours are all legitimate concerns.. I think the injuries.. and I include the broken ankle and the shoulder/lat over the summer in that all added up and got in his head. When you're a young indestructible athlete you work your butt off to recover from your first catastrophic injury.. only to have a damn lat muscle hit you over the summer.. then you start the season off ballin out and a damn calf strain comes to bite you. I think that all added up to his playing more tentative after the calf injury. The other thing to keep in mind with injuries like the calf strain is that they are perfectly fine until they're not. Over the course of a game you feel a tweak here and there and you just don't know if you can let it rip. NFL football is hard at any position and the QB position is the hardest of them all. Anything in your kitchen can be your undoing. I think that tentative version of Dak struggled to execute what Moore was calling.. And maybe that version of Dak struggled to make a meal out of the dog-doo call Moore sent in.

I have always thought that most of the great plays we see from the Cowboys offense is the guys doing special things as opposed to Moore dialing up great calls. I mean if I close my eyes I can't think of more than a handful of plays where we had schemed a guy wide open or we have fooled the defense such that the RB is running 15 yards into the secondary before the defense can find him. I think Moore has been the beneficiary of great players.. Coop, Zeke, Dak, Pollard, Lamb et al have just done amazing things when matched up against chumps.. Then when facing defensive guys at or near their level or higher, and the onus shifts to Moore to scheme it up, the Cowboys fall short.

In conclusion I stop short of saying Moore is THE only problem for us.. but I do think he's the biggest problem.

Yet no mention of your hero Zeke. LOL

Did HIS injury have any affect? All talk about Dak and nothing about the biggest failure on the offense in the 2nd half with was Zeke and the run game.

Dak came out guns blazing against Tampa so I put very little excuses on his injury for anything. Dak was lights out the first half of the year. Now you want to say he didnt run as much because of the injury, fine we can go there.

The offense went in the tank when Zeke, the run game and the Oline went in the toilet. And your hero was too pig headed to sit on the bench for the good of the team. HAD TO GET HIS laughable 1000 yard season. Which means nothing.

 

[jrumann59]

It's almost as if he has no plays that can beat the blitz. Teams started blitzing us a lot more toward the end of the season. And that delayed blitz killed us a lot. Dak could just audible to a run and run away from the blitz. But every time they blitz he wants to keep the back in instead of a quick toss to the back in the flat.

Zeke and Pollard were hurt and our rushing attack died because of that. So when they weren't blitzing us they'd just fall back in coverage. That two deep shell with the linebackers playing zone gave us some headaches also. And that's when Shultz picked up the slack, because Dak couldn't get it to the wideouts anymore.

So yes there are definitely some problems with Moore. When the run game isn't working he gets conservative as heck. And I'm tired of us settling for field goals from inside the 10. So he needs to run more misdirection plays around the goal line.

20% of the posters on this site could do a better job than that yahoo.

Delayed blitzes are good against teams with young lineman that hyper focus on their primary duty especially young interior guys. Dallas OL philosophy is each man looks out for each other but sometimes the young ones lock in on their primary so a delayed blitz causes problems.

 

[CowboyRoy]

No no I know what you are saying.

There was times where they were rushing 3 and getting pressure. Kinda hard to throw anyone "open" when everyone is double covered because they don't fear your run game at all.

I've been watching football a long time and not jus the Cowboys. I'm big into fantasy so I watch every game I can. When a team becomes 1 dimensional they rarely win.

Im at the point with Fantasy playing it for 25 years that Im convinced that if you dont play fantasy you really cant understand football like you need to. If you are good at fantasy, you understand the game.

Really obvious listening to some of these fans on here that not only dont play fantasy, but they probably only watch the Cowboys on Sundays.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

No, the real problem last year wasn't the offense.

Moore may have struggled some in the playoffs, but he's the most talented OC we've had in a long time.

Who was better?



Actually, not true.

We beat the snot out of teams who blitzed. We were figured out as the season went on. When teams stopped blitzing, we lost.

At least know what you're talking about if you're going to diss on Moore.

I guess you never read couch coaches post. It's the exact opposite of what you're saying. We started struggling when teams stopped blitzing us.

Did the Broncos Reveal the Blueprint to Stopping the Cowboys' Offense? - D Magazine

Every time a team ran a delayed blitz it worked. And that's why I'd stick out in my head. The Denver game is when that all started. So they might have blitzed only four times, but it worked all four times. Teams started doing exactly what Denver done. That delayed blitz killed us last year.

 

[phildadon86]

Im at the point with Fantasy playing it for 25 years that Im convinced that if you dont play fantasy you really cant understand football like you need to. If you are good at fantasy, you understand the game.

Really obvious listening to some of these fans on here that not only dont play fantasy, but they probably only watch the Cowboys on Sundays.

I think its a double edged sword. Jalen Hurts was a top QB in fantasy last season lol. But yeah I see what you are saying

 

[CowboyRoy]

When they hired MM I was very excited because I thought we would be changing to more of a WCO which is what Dak and this team are built for. Instead we stuck with the Garrett playbook with Moore's spin on it. Very disappointing. Imagine Pollard out there catching slants. Mouth watering. lol

What always boggled my mind is Dez Bryant. You have a guy on the team who is incredible after the catch. Yet. You have him running 32 GO ROUTES a game. Almost every time Dez caught a slant he was gone for 20 plus. Yet we wouldnt run it. Mind boggling.

I agree. The moment MM decided he would not call the plays there was disappointment. Especially after his big speech about how his #1 recognition during his 1 year hiatus was that he needed to call plays.

But for me the big scheme issue that the Cowboys lack an identity. Are they a run first team or a pass first team? Are they featuring Dak or Zeke?

To me it seems like they are trying to hold onto being a Zeke featured run team but it just doesnt work anymore. They need to make the leap to being a passing game first, Dak lead offense. That means a spread offense where the running backs are more big play guys that are versatile. Pollard is perfect for that role. Pair him with 2 other good backs.

Dak thrives in the hurry up, spread offense. Why are you going to pay a guy 40 million and then pound Zeke up the middle? Its mindless.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

Just listen to what you are saying for a minute. "The run game wasnt working". So that means half your offense simply wasnt effective. And its not like it was a little effective. It was terrible. It was sooo bad that defenses were playing a two deep shell and flooding the secondary with nickel personnel. They werent even accounting for the run. So the offense is already one dimensional and the defense is now focusing on taking away the deep ball and flooding the underneath zones.

Now lets goto the Oline. The line could barely block in the passing game. So Dak now has little confidence in his line and has little time to get the ball out. Play action doesnt work and they are taking away the deep ball and flooding the underneath stuff. Now sprinkle in lots of Oline penalities to erase some bigger plays and make the distances even more difficult.

And your sitting here wanting Moore to dial up some magical plays that can somehow just beat all that consistently? Doesnt happen like that buddy. You arent being realistic if you think OC's can magically do things like that.

That's when having a fullback helps. You run the RB and the FB out into the flat then you throw it to the RB. With a FB in front blocking for him...it works like a screen play. That's also when you start running shallow crossing routes to one WR while the others set themselves up to block for the WR with the ball. It's hard to do, but it can be done.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

You are absolutely clueless lolol. Like this couldn’t be any more wrong. Like 200% wrong. Sheesh

Nope. Teams started backing off of us and running a delayed blitz and we begin to struggle.

 

[ESisback]

IMHO, our lack of playoff success is a combination of several factors, a little of this, a little of that, as opposed to one giant problem:

1)Kellen Moore. Several games against better teams lacked proper adjustments. Predictable trends.
2)Lack of continuity in the OL, due to injury. I’d also replace the OL Coach.
3) Injured RB1
4)A few clock management issues.
5)Penalties, several subjective, that seem to strangely happen at the worst times.
6)A weakness in run defense has also hurt the offense.

 

[phildadon86]

I agree. The moment MM decided he would not call the plays there was disappointment. Especially after his big speech about how his #1 recognition during his 1 year hiatus was that he needed to call plays.

But for me the big scheme issue that the Cowboys lack an identity. Are they a run first team or a pass first team? Are they featuring Dak or Zeke?

To me it seems like they are trying to hold onto being a Zeke featured run team but it just doesnt work anymore. They need to make the leap to being a passing game first, Dak lead offense. That means a spread offense where the running backs are more big play guys that are versatile. Pollard is perfect for that role. Pair him with 2 other good backs.

Dak thrives in the hurry up, spread offense. Why are you going to pay a guy 40 million and then pound Zeke up the middle? Its mindless.

Honestly. I dont think we need to feature either Dak or Zeke. I would prefer we were balanced, but the run play designs are terrible. Moore is on record saying he doesnt like running outside. Thats where MM should have stepped in and been like. "No. This is what you are doing!"

I feel like MM came to Dallas for one last paycheck because he doesnt seem to bring much to the table. And I am worried that the next HC may be in the staff already. A LA GARRETT

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

You are absolutely clueless lolol. Like this couldn’t be any more wrong. Like 200% wrong. Sheesh

The one thing that bothered me in the Denver game was the RB would stay in to block. But if his man didn't blitz he would move out of the way to ease congestion. But as soon as he left the back field his man would blitz. And it worked every time. That's why it stood out in my head. Zeke wasn't presenting himself as a Target to Dak. I even mention such in the gameday thread.

@Pass2Run
@CowboyRoy
@JBond

 

[jazzcat22]

My opinion is the major factor of the offense stalling as the season progresses is Moore. It appears to me he gets stuck on plays - the WR screen just drives me crazy when you see it four times a half. And perhaps he is so married to his game plan he can't shift gears and make in game adjustments. All the clever things he does at times wander off his playbook page as he gets mired in a rut of a hand full of sets and plays.

But for those who actually like talking about the team and the particulars, and not just Dak hate and Zeke hate, what say you?

That play drives me crazy as well. Way over used. and a DC can take advantage of that. Plus is doesn't really work all that well.

One play that does work well 90% of the time. Roll out Dak to the right. The TE, or when Dez was here, even with Tony (with Linehan). They come across the other side of the field, hits them in the flat around the hash marks or between those and the numbers, and it always gains important years. Usually a 1st down and more.
They use it with TE's, but have not seen it with a WR for a very long time. Yes it takes more time to develop, hence, the rollout to get more time.

He uses that and it works, then we don't see it for weeks at a time. He rather try something over and over that doesn't work until it does. But it never does.

I am not a big fan of Moore, even if he has a top offense or the top offense, as you said, they settle for FG's still. This is one of those stats vs. results debates. Some say how how can you argue that Moore sucks with the #1 offense, then they turn around and say Dak sucks, as his stats mean nothing.

Good point with the Dak and Zeke hates threads. However even with TC starting in less than 2 weeks now, those will continue, unfortunately.

 

[starfan1]

Yet no mention of your hero Zeke. LOL

Did HIS injury have any affect? All talk about Dak and nothing about the biggest failure on the offense in the 2nd half with was Zeke and the run game.

Dak came out guns blazing against Tampa so I put very little excuses on his injury for anything. Dak was lights out the first half of the year. Now you want to say he didnt run as much because of the injury, fine we can go there.

The offense went in the tank when Zeke, the run game and the Oline went in the toilet. And your hero was too pig headed to sit on the bench for the good of the team. HAD TO GET HIS laughable 1000 yard season. Which means nothing.

I didnt get the feeling he was bashing Dak in the least. I think there was legitmate questions about dak after the new england game against quality opponents. I think he summarized things ok. I dont care for he and Steves love affair with the RB position but it is a take thats not outlandish. And as much as i dont care for Zeke I wouldnt put him as a main reason why we were one and done. Yes I think he will never be 2016 form and I dont expect him to be but he is not even close to the only reason we failed. I just want to see Pollard more. I dont think he is as pathetic at blocking as some make him out to be.

I really would like to see 2 RB sets. The main problem and cause of our demise was the Oline and a defense that couldnt stop the run and get off the field. Dak also played like Poo in first quarter and a half of the san fran game.

We have alot of things that can be cleaned up. Penalties are huge,Drops are huge, Blocking is huge and yes dak can be more accurate at times